Verdict in Jayalalita DA case

[narcon]

Just shows up your shallow understanding of issues .

You fail again and again to realize the fine issue that is being highlighted .

why do you refuse to see that world is not all about black and white ..but rather ' shades of gray'

Is it too difficult for you understand that Courts discretionary power have to be within certain prescribed limits .

There is definite division of labor throughout hierarchy of judiciary as to which court can pronounce how much fine and how much punishment .

Is it really difficult for you understand that Judges just can't run courts as their personal fiefdoms based on glorious enormous discretionary powers vested in them.

There must be reasoning and basis how Courts come to conclusion about specific amount of fine ...

There is method to even each kind of madness .

here we are talking about Justice !

I do not think that Omniscient discretionary power is all the basis to decide about random amount of fine !!!

Go and read basics of Indian legal system and the limits imposed on the courts about amount of fine and quantum of punishment each court can pronounce and then come for further argument .

Exorbitant amount hitherto not heard of even in China or USA for a bail amount (1.5 Billion USD) must give you an idea of how discretionary power of judges in India may work....it is here that your argument on this issue should come to dead end.

If not.

You are an enemy of your own conscious...Out to destroy whatever little you possess within you...

 

[Indo-guy]

Exorbitant amount hitherto not heard of even in China or USA for a bail amount (1.5 Billion USD) must give you an idea of how discretionary power of judges in India may work....it is here that your argument on this issue should come to dead end.

If not.

You are an enemy of your own conscious...Out to destroy whatever little you possess within you...

So probably you have not ventured outside India at all ..and probably you do not even read much about recent affairs in the world either ...
do you know what was the bail amount promulgated for Julian assange's release ?


Exorbitant amount yes but so also is the exorbitant amount of the money that is being contested in both Subrato Roy case as well as Jayalalitha case .

I simply said that there must be some method into it.

It can't be just any arbitrary ,random amount that comes to Judges mind !



I do not think that It is just the discretion of judge which decides this . There has to some basis how they do it .

Do you understand implications of Judges being allowed to decide any random amount mere based on just their discretion ?


all I am saying it is not as straightforward as you paint it to be ...just the enormous discretionary power !!!

I do not pretend to know things I do not know ...like you do .

that's why I said even I have question how courts fix any such amount .

it is rather stupid of you to jump to simplistic solution such as " enormous discretionary power " without providing any proof to support your claim !


Since you have made this tall claim and have been harping on it all along ..how about coming up with some reliable and cross verifiable ' evidence' to support your claim of " Enormous discretionary power " being sole basis in such cases of seemingly exorbitant bail money or fine ?

 

[Chronos]

@Bang Galore @Indischer @JanjaWeed

when is Yeddy going to jail.

He is as big a crook as Jayalalitha

 

[Indischer]

@Bang Galore @Indischer @JanjaWeed

when is Yeddy going to jail.

He is as big a crook as Jayalalitha

He went and came back.

Amma's case finally has a verdict after 18 long years...By that yardstick, Yeddy still has at least 12 more years before he makes another detour to Bellary Jail.

 

[sarthak]

Good to see Indian Judiciary doing its work. It is important for the Judiciary to become a role model for the society by its behavior and sticking to the spirit of law.If I am not wrong she is ruling a state.

Don't be fooled by these once in a while convictions. The rich have a 90% probability of getting away with crimes in India. The rich you see in jails are the unlucky 10%. I actually feel sad for her. There are people thousand times corrupt than her who are roaming free .

Here is a latest case. A politician whose son got put in jail for murder. Didn't seem to affect his lust for money.
Venod Sharma's assets grow from Rs 9cr to Rs 140cr in 10 yrs - The Times of India

Every once a decade, a powerful guy in India is sent to Jail and that pacifies the sheeple for a good 10 years. This is one of those events

 

[narcon]

there must be some method into it.

What is that method?
Do you know?

As for the most expensive bails:

Eight Of The World Most Expensive Bail Bonds Ever

India has set a world record as for as the bail is concerned.
What Julian Assange you are talking about?

What is the method for setting such world records?
Any idea?

 

[Indo-guy]

What is that method?
Do you know?

As for the most expensive bails:

Eight Of The World Most Expensive Bail Bonds Ever

India has set a world record as for as the bail is concerned.
What Julian Assange you are talking about?

What is the method for setting such world records?
Any idea?

I do not know what method is adopted by Courts to arrive at any particular figure . hat's why I asked the question in first place .

But I know that there has to be basis , method to do it .

and it can't be based on whims and fancy of individual Judge !

why do you forget purposefully that while Court set 10,000 crore bail amount for Mr Subrato Roy , it was not just because Court wanted a mind boggling number of 10,000 crore but the money at stake in this case is 25,000 crore !!!


I am sure that SEBI, Securities Appellate tribunal and Supreme court must have done some calculations before coming out with 10,000 crore bail amount .

Do you think Supreme court Judges are stupid to set astronomical bail amount just to create world record ?


Try to see context in which such bail amount was arrived at .

 

[narcon]

I do not know what method is adopted by Courts to arrive at any particular figure . hat's why I asked the question in first place .

But I know that there has to be basis , method to do it .

.

There is no Rule-book or guidelines for them to set the (amount of) bond.
They don't seek advice on the (amount of) bond from anyone.
Neither does the state or the central government issue them any guidelines for it.
Its arbitrary for them to set the bond based on the rule of thumb of bail. That is to secure the re-appearance of the accused person at his trial by reasonable amount of bail. And this has been going on for 100s of years...

 

[Indo-guy]

There is no Rule-book or guidelines for them to set the (amount of) bond.
They don't seek advice on the (amount of) bond from anyone.
Neither does the state or the central government issue them any guidelines for it.
Its arbitrary for them to set the bond based on the rule of thumb of bail. That is to secure the re-appearance of the accused person at his trial by reasonable amount of bail. And this has been going on for 100s of years...

Off course there is no rule book or guidelines to decide about bail .

But had it been just any arbitrary order , it would have been challenged in Court again .

The very fact that variety of Legal experts opined that the 10,000 crore was Pragmatic and common sensical tells us that it was not arbitrary .

Court had gone into specifics of Case Sahara group with worth of about 1.6 lakh crore having embroiled for fraud of 25,000 fund - was deemed not to have had difficulty in raising 10,000 crore bond amount .

This amount was likely arrived at after going through observations of securities Apellate tribunal and SEBI probe and overall dues that Sahara group owed in the case .

10,000 crore was a reasonable compromise based on merit of case and actual money at stake .

I do not accept that courts decided about this amount in absolute arbitrary manner .

Supreme court Judges are not stupid to sabotage their won judgment basing it on arbitrary decision.


You seem too enthralled by 10,000 crore because you are not taking into account 25,000 crore at stake and 1.6 Lakh crore worth of entity which is involved in the case .

 

[narcon]

Off course there is no rule book or guidelines to decide about bail .

But had it been just any arbitrary order , it would have been challenged in Court again .

The very fact that variety of Legal experts opined that the 10,000 crore was Pragmatic and common sensical tells us that it was not arbitrary .

Court had gone into specifics of Case Sahara group with worth of about 1.6 lakh crore having embroiled for fraud of 25,000 fund - was deemed not to have had difficulty in raising 10,000 crore bond amount .

This amount was likely arrived at after going through observations of securities Apellate tribunal and SEBI probe and overall dues that Sahara group owed in the case .

10,000 crore was a reasonable compromise based on merit of case and actual money at stake .

I do not accept that courts decided about this amount in absolute arbitrary manner .

Supreme court Judges are not stupid to sabotage their won judgment basing it on arbitrary decision.


You seem too enthralled by 10,000 crore because you are not taking into account 25,000 crore at stake and 1.6 Lakh crore worth of entity which is involved in the case .

Bail amounts are arbitrary in the US which has the higher judiciary standards than a developing country like India.

If the US (democratic nation) the judges can exercise such moves purely on arbitrary basis what is the problem if India did it?

Once you concede that there is no rule book or guidelines....

 

[narcon]

Here is some more for you:

Subarta Roy embezzled amount 21,000 crores. Bail amount set to nearly 50% of that amount.

Fodder Scam:

Laloo Prasad found guilty in a 900 crores embezzlement .
Bail amount?
Mere 50,000 Rs only...

See the difference?
If it is not arbitrary than what it is?
And these are both high profile cases.

I can give you several other such examples too...

 

[Indo-guy]

Bail amounts are arbitrary in the US which has the higher judiciary standards than a developing country like India.

If the US (democratic nation) the judges can exercise such moves purely on arbitrary basis what is the problem if India did it?

Once you concede that there is no rule book or guidelines....

where is the proof that bail amounts are decided in arbitrary manner in US ?

I concede that there is no rule book or guidelines that does not mean that it is arbitrary !

Here is some more for you:

Subarta Roy embezzled amount 21,000 crores. Bail amount set to nearly 50% of that amount.

Fodder Scam:

Laloo Prasad found guilty in a 900 crores embezzlement .
Bail amount?
Mere 50,000 Rs only...

See the difference?
If it is not arbitrary than what it is?
And these are both high profile cases.

I can give you several other such examples too...

although lalu was convicted in fodder scam worth so called 900 crore . was it proven that he embezzled all the 900 crore ?
Do you forget the finer points purposefully that there is no one single case but many different 53 cases under Fodder scam unlike Sahara fund case and more than 500 people have been convicted in various cases .

In exactly which case Lalu was convicted and what was the net amount of money that was at at sake in that particular case etc issues need to be taken into account .

I think once again you are jumping the guns before going through the finer details .

You points would have been valid if there was an instance of single case of Fodder scam worth of 900 crore and lalu was Chief and lone beneficiary having amassed so much of money .

You are welcome to contest the point with other examples .

 

[Indo-guy]

Here is some more for you:

Subarta Roy embezzled amount 21,000 crores. Bail amount set to nearly 50% of that amount.

Fodder Scam:

Laloo Prasad found guilty in a 900 crores embezzlement .
Bail amount?
Mere 50,000 Rs only...

See the difference?
If it is not arbitrary than what it is?
And these are both high profile cases.

I can give you several other such examples too...

To add further - fine of 2.5 million rupees was imposed on Lalu Prasad Yadav after conviction .

 

[narcon]

where is the proof that bail amounts are decided in arbitrary manner in US ?.

 

[Indo-guy]

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source ?