Utility of JH7 for PAF

[Khafee]

Hi

With plaaf ready to sell off jh7’s
Paf can get them dirt cheap but possibly no kick backs.

Just remember a 1000 dollar rifle kills the same as a 25000 dollar rifle when the target is in the range

There have been JH-7's available for quite sometime, but PAF has not shown any interest in them.

Now IF PN were to get creative, and go for a dedicated air arm, and start out with 2 dedicated sqdns of JH-7, CNS or COAS, could most probably get funding from KSA or UAE.

 

[TsAr]

There have been JH-7's available for quite sometime, but PAF has not shown any interest in them.

Now IF PN were to get creative, and go for a dedicated air arm, and start out with 2 dedicated sqdns of JH-7, CNS or COAS, could most probably get funding from KSA or UAE.

PAF has evaluated JH-7's and were not impressed with them. Dont you think that buying more used mirages would be better keeping in mind existing facilities.

 

[ziaulislam]

IMHO ... we'll need to come to terms with the reality that the PAF isn't getting any off-the-shelf fighters.

It's JF-17 all the way moving forward. So, in terms of deep-strike and the like, we'll need to think about how the JF-17 could take on those roles.

Payload weight is definitely a constraint, but (with the help of available COTS) I think tailoring a new generation of SOWs around the JF-17 is more tenable than a new fighter at this point.

In this respect, we should be learning from Saab more so than anyone else. @JamD @Oscar

Smart small diameter bombs, cluster ammunition and the confirmed but unnamed SOW (shown in Feb ) is the way to go.

While the nuke Raad will remain with mirages

 

[PurpleButcher]

could most probably get funding from KSA or UAE.

Has there ever been a case in past when UAE/KSA funded weapons for Pakistan?

If I ain't wrong India is the official strategic partner of these countries. UAE(ADNOC) some years back announced to keep strategic reserves in India. KSA is investing 15 Billion USD in Reliance refinery in Gujrat, why would these brotherly Muslim countries fund Pakistan against their "Strategic Partner"?

Is a GCC-Pak military alliance in the making?

a)https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...oil-storage/articleshow/66591096.cms?from=mdr
b)https://www.livemint.com/companies/...5-billion-deal-with-aramco-1565630176982.html

 

[JamD]

IMHO ... we'll need to come to terms with the reality that the PAF isn't getting any off-the-shelf fighters.

It's JF-17 all the way moving forward. So, in terms of deep-strike and the like, we'll need to think about how the JF-17 could take on those roles.

Payload weight is definitely a constraint, but (with the help of available COTS) I think tailoring a new generation of SOWs around the JF-17 is more tenable than a new fighter at this point.

In this respect, we should be learning from Saab more so than anyone else. @JamD @Oscar

Fortunately or unfortunately we are not inducting a new aircraft for deep-strike. The reason is very simple and obvious: money. I believe PAF decides on procurement based on what is the absolutely cheapest solution that will get the job done.

Right now it is as @Bilal Khan (Quwa) said: investment in the JF-17. PAF's actions have also alluded to this. Cancellation of the J10 order, resistance to get any other platforms to focus on JF-17 production, decision to get old Mirages (as opposed to a new platform) to extend Mirage fleet life. I am very sure that AWC is developing multiple SOW strategic/nonstrategic weapons for the JF-17. JF-17 will not be the primary strike element but it will be able to do the job if/when there is a gap when we don't have Mirages (retired) or Azm (not ready) for the strike role.

Speaking of Azm I think we have had official confirmation that Azam is twin-engine, which supports the conjecture that Azm will be swing-role: air-superiority and deep-strike. Also, all the weapon programs started for the JF-17 will eventually feed into weapons for the Azm. I think this is smart. We can't afford to induct a new stop-gap platform right now. That will only happen if something extreme happens.

Just my opinion.

 

[MastanKhan]

There have been JH-7's available for quite sometime, but PAF has not shown any interest in them.

Now IF PN were to get creative, and go for a dedicated air arm, and start out with 2 dedicated sqdns of JH-7, CNS or COAS, could most probably get funding from KSA or UAE.

Hi

And specially when plaaf wants a buyer
These aircraft can be had fir peanuts

 

[Khafee]

Has there ever been a case in past when UAE/KSA funded weapons for Pakistan?

If I ain't wrong India is the official strategic partner of these countries. UAE(ADNOC) some years back announced to keep strategic reserves in India. KSA is investing 15 Billion USD in Reliance refinery in Gujrat, why would these brotherly Muslim countries fund Pakistan against their "Strategic Partner"?

Is a GCC-Pak military alliance in the making?

a)https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...oil-storage/articleshow/66591096.cms?from=mdr
b)https://www.livemint.com/companies/...5-billion-deal-with-aramco-1565630176982.html

Making sure India becomes reliant on GCC for energy needs instead of Iran, is something people cant fathom, yet forget their nuclear / missile program was funded by KSA & UAE, among many other bailouts.

Unlike IMF loans, KSA& GCC have always given grants, this time being an exception due to the loot and plunder.

Hi

And specially when plaaf wants a buyer
These aircraft can be had fir peanuts

As China's iron brother, they can definitely be had for free, with only the upgrades being paid for - As rightly mentioned by you earlier.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Making sure India becomes reliant on GCC for energy needs instead of Iran, is something people cant fathom, yet forget their nuclear / missile program was funded by KSA & UAE, among many other bailouts.

And got in return lot of man power,good will,public support and covert legions.
Even to date,whatever a minister or newspaper from UAE & KSA says Pakistan knows very well that it enjoys very strong support in Arab power corridors.

 

[Khafee]

PAF has evaluated JH-7's and were not impressed with them. Dont you think that buying more used mirages would be better keeping in mind existing facilities.

How much would a used M2K cost, and how much would an upgraded JH-& cost, considering that they have been retired by PLAAF. This is the CapEX. OpEX, how much would that be?

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Fortunately or unfortunately we are not inducting a new aircraft for deep-strike. The reason is very simple and obvious: money. I believe PAF decides on procurement based on what is the absolutely cheapest solution that will get the job done.

Right now it is as @Bilal Khan (Quwa) said: investment in the JF-17. PAF's actions have also alluded to this. Cancellation of the J10 order, resistance to get any other platforms to focus on JF-17 production, decision to get old Mirages (as opposed to a new platform) to extend Mirage fleet life. I am very sure that AWC is developing multiple SOW strategic/nonstrategic weapons for the JF-17. JF-17 will not be the primary strike element but it will be able to do the job if/when there is a gap when we don't have Mirages (retired) or Azm (not ready) for the strike role.

Speaking of Azm I think we have had official confirmation that Azam is twin-engine, which supports the conjecture that Azm will be swing-role: air-superiority and deep-strike. Also, all the weapon programs started for the JF-17 will eventually feed into weapons for the Azm. I think this is smart. We can't afford to induct a new stop-gap platform right now. That will only happen if something extreme happens.

Just my opinion.

Yep. The CAS told Jane's that Project Azm should be a twin-engine jet with super-cruising and space for directed energy weapons. The only condition is that it be 100% ITAR-free; otherwise, the PAF is open to partnerships, etc.

But if anyone has doubts about JF-17 being able to do the job, then we'll need to figure out how to solve its issues, that's all we have for the time being.

Might as well take what we have (assuming it's even there) and put it into the right stuff for the JF-17, e.g., GaN-based AESA, a good HMD/S, a good HOBS AAM, a BVRAAM that at least tries to give what the Meteor offers, ALCMs that give the JF-17 a 350-500 km deep-strike capability (if at the cost of lighter warhead weight), etc.

Now what might really make things interesting if we can get someone to help us with ramjets/scram-jets (e.g., China, Ukraine, South Africa, etc) and develop a lightweight supersonic-cruising AShM for the JF-17. Sadly, the Indians are well ahead of us in that regard via the Brahmos NG.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Yep. The CAS told Jane's that Project Azm should be a twin-engine jet with super-cruising and space for directed energy weapons. The only condition is that it be 100% ITAR-free; otherwise, the PAF is open to partnerships, etc.

But if anyone has doubts about JF-17 being able to do the job, then we'll need to figure out how to solve its issues, that's all we have for the time being.

Might as well take what we have (assuming it's even there) and put it into the right stuff for the JF-17, e.g., GaN-based AESA, a good HMD/S, a good HOBS AAM, a BVRAAM that at least tries to give what the Meteor offers, ALCMs that give the JF-17 a 350-500 km deep-strike capability (if at the cost of lighter warhead weight), etc.

Now what might really make things interesting if we can get someone to help us with ramjets/scram-jets (e.g., China, Ukraine, South Africa, etc) and develop a lightweight supersonic-cruising AShM for the JF-17. Sadly, the Indians are well ahead of us in that regard via the Brahmos NG.

Whatever we are going to put on JF-17,it still remains a pony never becomes a war horse.I haven't seen it without tanks.
With these huge drop tanks,fighter is barely left with 4 hardpoints and huge drag.

 

[MastanKhan]

And got in return lot of man power,good will,public support and covert legions.
Even to date,whatever a minister or newspaper from UAE & KSA says Pakistan knows very well that it enjoys very strong support in Arab power corridors.

Hi,

There is no one more disgusting than a thank less pakistani.

 

[Sine Nomine]

Hi,

There is no one more disgusting than a thank less pakistani.

Care to explain Mr MK?

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Is this a coincidence that China has put tons of upgraded JH-7s for sale???

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Sadly, the Indians are well ahead of us in that regard via the Brahmos NG.

CM 400AKG is not enough for Brahmos?