Utility of JH7 for PAF

[Deltadart]

Bhai aap "navel" aur "naval" ka farq kub seekhaingay?

...dono ko daikhnay k baad.

 

[Khafee]

I would be happy if you came true on the promise of 18-24 Block72s and 20 older16s. As to JH7 I personally see very little if any role for it in PAF/PN.But then what do I know!!!
A

Dear Brother,

24new, and 20 used, IA confirmed

 

[batmannow]

Nahi Yaara PUt Qalai over it so Radar waves shine off it. This stupidity is only of a distorted mind.
Interestingly PAF has gone through a hard time in 90s to 2010 wit hsingular lack of platforms it could purchase. Eve nat the best of times there was a limit to how many older 16s you could buy. M2ks were tried for and we failed . Rafale was beyond us price wise as wwas EFT. We were turned with our tails between our lefgs when we asked for the Gripen. In all this time we did not ask for JH7. BUTNOW when we have the JFT, options for more 16 might yet open up, Engine reliability of Chinese origin engines is increasing, Russia is slowly opening upto us, we need to revisit the option of JH7. for Pity's sake.
A

Time FOR JH7 is passed, as u said Russia has opened up, we hve as many options and thier customizations avalible, Russia has wide range of fighter jets and getting a fighter plane isn't buying vegetables with a 100 ruppe note in ur hands?
Countries like Pakistan only gets thier hands to top tech when those power needs us, and if not evn we pay them thier prices thy will Jst deny it, and retrun us our money in face of wheat Thts wht usa did to us back in 90s????
It's ur strategical value, need which opens the door for u, if we push more closer with Russian and Chinese intersts in our region we can get whatever we want, our govt has to play it well Thts all it takes?

 

[Sharuf]

I'm not an aviation expert but we're talking about an aircraft that will serve for next 30-40 years so why not some new 4++ generation jet?

Dear Brother,

24new, and 20 used, IA confirmed

What? Are we getting more F-16s?

 

[Khafee]

Excerpts from Wiki.
I understand it is not a relaible website but operational history and inventory gives you an idea of its current capabilities. Notably it is not wired to carry SD10A.





Operational history of JH7:-
On its maiden flight on 14 December 1988, while en route back to the airport to land, the engines of the JH-7 prototype suddenly begun to vibrate violently. The test pilot Huang Bingxin (黄炳新) decided to make an emergency landing, but as he approached the airport, the vibration was so great that two thirds of the instruments had been shaken off the instrument panel, and all of the connectors of the remaining third still attached to the panel had also been shaken loose, so none of the instruments worked; the pilot nonetheless managed to eventually land the prototype safely.[16]

On 8 June 1991, a JH-7 prototype suddenly began to leak fuel at a high rate. Lu Jun (卢军), a Russian-trained Chinese test pilot, managed to make a safe emergency landing when the fuel reserve had dropped to slightly more than 30 liters. Three years later, on 4 April 1994, a JH-7 prototype crashed during a test flight, killing Lu.[16]

On 19 August 1992, the entire rudder of a JH-7 suddenly fell off at an altitude of 5,000 meters, while carrying four live missiles. Against orders to jettison the missiles and abandon the aircraft, the test pilot decided to attempt an emergency landing. Using mainly differential thrust of the two engines, the test pilot Huang Bingxin (黄炳新) made it back to the airport and attempted to make an emergency landing, but a tire at the starboard side exploded on touch down, causing the aircraft to veer off course. Using brakes as control, the test pilot made two attempts before finally releasing the drogue parachute to finally stop safely.[16]

The JH-7A entered service with the PLANAF in early 2004, and with the PLAAF by the end of the year.[17]

In 2007 JH-7s went abroad to participate in "Peace Mission" exercises of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO). In April 2012, multiple JH-7 aircraft joined a Russia-China joint naval exercise in eastern China. In 2013, JH-7s participated in a Russia–China joint exercise held on Russian territory.[18]

On 12 March 2019, a JH-7 crashed during a training exercise in Ledong County, Hainan, killing two pilots onboard.[19] The crash of the normally high-altitude-usage, aged aircraft happened during a low-altitude training flight, the pilots gave up an opportunity to eject to avoid densely populated residential area and were killed when trying to avoid a school, they were hailed for their bravery as martyrs by local officials.[20]

Operators[edit]

View attachment 574965 People's Republic of China

• People's Liberation Army Naval Air Force – 120 (As of January 2014[update]).[2]
• People's Liberation Army Air Force – 120 (As of January 2014[update]).[2][21]

Variants[edit]

View attachment 574964

This section does not cite any sources. Please help improve this section by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. (May 2011) (Learn how and when to remove this template message)

• JH-7 – Initial production version of the PLANAF anti-shipping fighter-bomber.
• JH-7A – Later production utilising composite structure to reduce weight, improved flying control system and improved avionics including the JL10A Shan Ying J-band pulse-Doppler radar. Weapon loads increased by the addition of two more wing hardpoints and two hardpoints under the intake trunking for mission pods such as targeting pods.
• JH-7B - New variant, with upgraded avionics, engines with 15% more thrust, in flight refueling, upgraded mission computer, full authority digital fly-by-wire system, and greater use of composite materials.
• JH-7E - Possibly export variant, shown at 2018 Zhuhai Airshow.[22]
• FBC-1 Flying Leopard – Export version of the JH-7.
• FBC-1A Flying Leopard II – Export version of the JH-7A.

Specifications (JH-7)[edit]

Data from AVIC I, SinoDefence.com

General characteristics

• Crew: 2: pilot, weapons operator
• Payload: 9,000 kg[7][8] (19,842 lb) of weapons
• Length: 22.32 m (73 ft 2 in)
• Wingspan: 12.8 m (41 ft 7 in)
• Height: 6.22 m (20 ft 4 in)
• Wing area: 42.2m² (ft²)
• Empty weight: 14,500 kg[23] (31,900 lb)
• Loaded weight: kg (lb)
• Max. takeoff weight: 28,475 kg[24] (62,720 lb)
• Powerplant: 2 × Xian WS-9 afterburning turbofans
  • Dry thrust: 54.29 kN (12,250 lbf) each
  • Thrust with afterburner: 91.26 kN (20,515 lbf) each

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 1.75 (1,808 km/h, 1,122 mph)
• Combat radius: 1,760 km (950 nm, 1,100 mi with one in-flight refueling (estimated), 900 km without refueling (estimated))
• Ferry range: 3,700 km (1,970 nm, 2,299 mi)
• Service ceiling: 16,000 m (51,180 ft)
• Wing loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)

Armament

• Guns: 1× 23mm twin-barrel GSh-23L autocannon, 300 rounds
• Hardpoints: 9 in total (6× under-wing, 2× wing-tip, 1× under-fuselage) with a capacity of 9,000 kg (20,000 lb) external fuel and ordnance
• Rockets: 57mm/90mm unguided rocket pods
• Missiles:
  • Air-to-air missiles:
    • PL-5[25]
    • PL-8
    • PL-9
  • Anti-ship missiles:
    • Yingji-8K[26]
    • Yingji-82K[27]
  • Air-to-surface missiles:
    • CM-802A
    • KD-88[28]
    • C-705
    • C-704
  • Anti-radiation missiles:
    • Yingji-91[29]
    • LD-10
    • CM-102
• Bombs:
  • Unguided bombs
  • Laser-guided bombs
    • GB1
    • GB5
  • Satellite-guided bombs
    • LS-6
    • FT-12
    • GB6
    • FT-2
    • FT-3
    • FT-6

Avionics

I think, given the AESA radar in JFT Blk3, the same one can be used here as well.

Secondly the A2A config will not be limited to the above but PL-10 & PL-15 can be used as well.

How about JH7 as naval air wing?

PN needs a dedicated naval air wing ASAP, and given the financial crunch, this would be ideal .

 

[CHACHA"G"]

J10 , J11 or J16 are the better and modern options(latest tech and MR) ……….. If we really need bomb truck then SU-34 ……. Rest please stay away from JH-7 ,,,

 

[Armchair]

This is quite a lame thread. It is a thread about JH-7 in PAF by a poster who doesn't think this should happen. If this thread had been started by @MastanKhan it could have produced some interesting ideas, strategies, analysis and technical info. But just now, this thread is like a dodo trying to fly.

 

[Khafee]

Need a deep strike twin engine jet. JF-17 cannot do everything. Could possibly look into J-11. It's based off the SU-27 and will add another dimension to the PAF.

The J-11 in China, the basic Flanker has been modified and improved, and China now also builds the J-16 variant domestically, including versions optimized for ground attack and electronic warfare.
http://www.airforcemag.com/Magazine...he-Chinese-Air-Forces-Great-Leap-Forward.aspx

 

[litman]

how come a no stealth deep strike air craft will be able to survive in an environment where air crafts like su 30 with massive radar and 6 bvr missiles on board, awacs, other bvr capable fighters like mirage 2000 and mig 29 will be active. add S400 and rafale to the equation and i dont think JH 7 will be able to penetrate more then a few miles into the enemy air space without getting shot.
on 26 feb indian mirage 2000 which is quite a potent strike fighter was able to penetrate only a few NM into pak air space and they hastily dropped their payload and had to run back.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

A lot has been written on the subject of whether PAF should relook the issue of JH7s for its naval role. I think it needs a new thread for appropriate discussion.
I will request the Moderators to kindly shift he posts from M3/5 thread to this thread.

Here is the excerpt from Air force technology.

The JH-7 is powered by two Rolls-Royce Spey Mk202 turbofan engines. Each engine can produce 54.29kN of dry thrust and its thrust after burner is 91.26kN.

"The first JH-7 prototype was rolled out in August 1988."
The engine is 5.2m long. Its diameter is 1.09m. The dry weight of the engine is 1,856kg.

The Spey Mk202 engine was introduced in 1960. The engine was first received by China in 1975.

China signed an agreement with Rolls Royce in 1975 to reproduce the Spey Mk202 engine through reverse engineering.

The Chinese produced engine is designated as WS-9 Qinling turbofan engine and its trail production began in 1976. The WS-9 incorporated in the JH-7A aircraft is a licensed copy of the Spey Mk202 engine.

Performance
The aircraft can fly at a maximum speed of 1,808km/h. Its cruise speed is 903km/h. The normal and ferry ranges of the JH-7 are 1,759km and 3,700km respectively. The service ceiling of the aircraft is 16,000m. The aircraft weighs around 14,500kg while its maximum take-off weight is 28,475kg.

Nuclear this, nuclear that, blah blah blah. I'm sorry but it wasnt a nuclear tipped missile that gave the Indians a mouth shattering response on the 27th. Conventional warfare is still the most dominant form of warfare. Deep strike fighters are need to attack the Indians far east and central, locations. Anyone that says otherwise is frankly, stupid.

Lunch a nuclear missile and face a nuclear missile in return. Killing thousands of people on our side too. Lunch a deep strike and they can only hope to accomplish the same.


Might as well give them prop planes.

Never expected this from you. Had it been some other poster then one could have said the thread is made by someone obsessed or is too naive. After so many years and debating this aircraft to its core and being rejected every single time bringing it up now indirectly suggests that you my friend have lost abilities of finding something better. My friend my advice is take a few days rest from PDF and enjoy some time away so that you are fresh and your mind is rejuvenated.

Need a deep strike twin engine jet. JF-17 cannot do everything. Could possibly look into J-11. It's based off the SU-27 and will add another dimension to the PAF.

The issue of deep strike and which is the suitable platform needs to be based on certain parameters. Just assuming that this platform is not adequate for the job and this is needs to be explained.

JF-17 is inadequate how?
How is J-11 series adequate?
What are the other options that were considered but rejected?

A lot more sensible to acquire those as compared to JH7s

How? Care to explain.
JF-17 is inadequate how?
Mirrage III/V inadequate how?
How is J-11 series adequate?
What are the other options that were considered but rejected?
What were the threats and parameters considered?

 

[HAIDER]

"The J-11B is roughly analogous in its capabilities to India's Su-30MKI - modernised derivatives of the Soviet Su-27 air superiority fighter. The J-11B provides a capability which Pakistan lacks, and when deployed to Pakistani skies largely nullifies India's primary advantage in the air. China's deployment of the JH-7 strike fighter also gives a much needed boost to Pakistan's otherwise sorely lacking penetrative strike capabilities - at speeds and ranges and with high payloads which light jets such as the JF-17 cannot match. What the Chinese deployment signifies is that the country seeks parity and stability in South Asia - and ultimately for neither party to be capable of waging an aggressive war on the other. The appearance of the J-11B on India's Western borders sends a strong signal that should China provide Pakistan with even minimal air - either directly or through the transfer of high end arms - India would not enjoy such a one sided advantage in an air war with Pakistan as it otherwise would against its fleet of light F-16 and JF-17 fighters. By deploying the J-11B rather than more advanced platforms such as the J-20 however, a fifth generation platform currently unmatched by anything in the Indian inventory, or the elite J-16 strike fighter which considerably surpasses the JH-7 in its performance China has indicated that it does not seek an arms race or destabilisation in South Asia - only strategic balance between the two regional powers. The J-11B and JH-7 thus symbolise an attempt to match but not to suppress Indian capabilities - as this is the most effective means to prevent war. Ultimately maintaining regional peace remains the Chinese strategic priority, not only because it already faces far more serious security threats on its eastern borders from the Western Bloc but also because the future of its One Belt Road initiative depends on such peace and stability. "

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I would dsagree with this assertion. If you are going to attack those parts of India, you will need to use a Nuke tipped missile. Air dropping ammo into those areas will be highly dangerous and you will lose a lot of platforms. As to the Nuke vs conventional missile debate there is no question that any missile approaching you will be considered to be Nuke tipped and responded to appropriately irrespective of whether it is nuke tipped or not. The only othe option might be to deploy Sub based CMs but even then if you are going to tae that risk it has to cause enough devastation for it to be worth while. This is precisel y the reason that war in the subcontinewnt is going to be a Zero sum game
A


A lot more sensible to acquire those as compared to JH7s

But the assets in the sea may not be considered as attacking on the land...

 

[NA71]

How about procuring Tornadoes F3....being retired from RAF. 2nd most reliable European jet after French Mirages.

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 2.2 (2,400 km/h, 1,490 mph) at 9,000 m / 30,000 ft altitude; 800 knots, 1,482 km/h, 921 mph indicated airspeed near sea level
• Combat radius: more than 1,853 km (1000 nmi, 1,151 mi) (subsonic), more than 556 km (300 nmi, 345 mi) supersonic
• Ferry range: 4,265 km[71] (2,300 nmi, 2,650 mi) with four external tanks
• Endurance: 2 hr combat air patrol at 560–740 km (300–400 nmi, 345–460 mi) from base
• Service ceiling: 15,240 m[72] (50,000 ft)

Armament

• Guns
  • 1 × 27 mm (1.063 in) Mauser BK-27 revolver cannon with 180 rounds (internally mounted under starboard side of fuselage, versus 2× BK-27 mounted on Panavia Tornado IDS)
• Hardpoints: 10 total (4× semi-recessed under-fuselage, 2× under-fuselage, 4× swivelling under-wing) holding up to 9000 kg (19,800 lb) of payload, the two inner wing pylons have shoulder launch rails for 2× Short-Range AAM (SRAAM) each
  • 4× AIM-9 Sidewinder or AIM-132 ASRAAM
  • 4× British Aerospace Skyflash or AIM-120 AMRAAM (mounted on 4 semi-recessed under-fuselage hardpoints)
• Others:
  • Up to 2× drop tanks for extended range/loitering time. Up to 4 drop tanks for ferry role (at the expense of 4 Skyflash/AMRAAM).

• GEC-Marconi/Ferranti AI.24 Foxhunter radar

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

"The J-11B is roughly analogous in its capabilities to India's Su-30MKI - modernised derivatives of the Soviet Su-27 air superiority fighter. The J-11B provides a capability which Pakistan lacks, and when deployed to Pakistani skies largely nullifies India's primary advantage in the air. China's deployment of the JH-7 strike fighter also gives a much needed boost to Pakistan's otherwise sorely lacking penetrative strike capabilities - at speeds and ranges and with high payloads which light jets such as the JF-17 cannot match. What the Chinese deployment signifies is that the country seeks parity and stability in South Asia - and ultimately for neither party to be capable of waging an aggressive war on the other. The appearance of the J-11B on India's Western borders sends a strong signal that should China provide Pakistan with even minimal air - either directly or through the transfer of high end arms - India would not enjoy such a one sided advantage in an air war with Pakistan as it otherwise would against its fleet of light F-16 and JF-17 fighters. By deploying the J-11B rather than more advanced platforms such as the J-20 however, a fifth generation platform currently unmatched by anything in the Indian inventory, or the elite J-16 strike fighter which considerably surpasses the JH-7 in its performance China has indicated that it does not seek an arms race or destabilisation in South Asia - only strategic balance between the two regional powers. The J-11B and JH-7 thus symbolise an attempt to match but not to suppress Indian capabilities - as this is the most effective means to prevent war. Ultimately maintaining regional peace remains the Chinese strategic priority, not only because it already faces far more serious security threats on its eastern borders from the Western Bloc but also because the future of its One Belt Road initiative depends on such peace and stability. "

Sir,
Its time Pakistan looks for son 5th gen solution rather than than getting some old platform. PAF made a blunder when they did not procure replacements for B-57's (though debateable, however many seniors still consider it as blunder).

 

[HAIDER]

Sir,
Its time Pakistan looks for son 5th gen solution rather than than getting some old platform. PAF made a blunder when they did not procure replacements for B-57's (though debateable, however many seniors still consider it as blunder).

Pakistan has budget issue. No money for new planes. You have to modify whatever you have. But, PAF old frames of Mirage are in excellent condition and enough space to fitin modern avionics. Pakistan is lucky enough to have sanction free JF17. Otherwise F16 parts are under control by the producer. And there is no chance Pakistan will get new F16 from its budget.
Pakistan ultimate source is China or if any NATO country retire its F16 after adoption of F35. But those F16 will be stripped, because they were modified for NATO members.