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USA will never win the Afghanistan war

MultaniGuy

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There is no war in Afghanistan, and the US will never win


In announcing last week that more US forces were headed to Afghanistan, President Donald Trump remarked that "the American people are weary of war without victory."

He's right about the weariness.

But that very weariness is encouraged by the widespread belief that Afghanistan is the kind of war in which there is going to be a moment of victory, if only the American people support the war a little longer.

And that is to misunderstand the nature of the conflict in Afghanistan.

Ever since the Taliban government was toppled in late 2001, the heart of the strategic problem that has confronted the United States and its allies in Afghanistan has been the definition of victory: How does this end? We would all be better off if we first asked what "this" is. While Afghanistan is a war of sorts, it is not the sort of war in which there is likely to be a decisive moment of victory. Rather, Afghanistan is best described as an armed policing operation.

Hence in Afghanistan, security forces regularly collect evidence from the battlefield: weapons, spent bullet cases, parts from improvised explosive devices, documents, cell phones, swab tests for explosive residue, and so on. Why? Because without evidence there will be no conviction in an Afghan court, and the alleged insurgent will walk away (assuming he doesn't bribe his way out after capture, as happens all too often).

This summarizes a categorical difference between internal law enforcement operations and interstate "conventional" war. The idea of impounding enemy tanks for use at trial or scouring enemy bunkers for spent bullet cases to put in evidence bags during, say, the Persian Gulf War would be ridiculous because, in that context, the enemy is not a criminal.

The categorical distinction between internal and interstate war is straightforward. What is surprising, therefore, is how far the distinction is ignored in the expectation that decisive victory is nonetheless available in internal conflict.

In a domestic context, everyone understands that policing is a continual activity. The idea is constantly to maintain order. There is no moment of victory as such but, rather, an ambition to achieve and maintain relative "stability," which is only ever a provisional state.

To think about the conflict in Afghanistan as an armed policing operation (in my book I call it "armed politics," but it's the same business of enforcing the writ of a government over its own state) makes sense historically. Take for example the British experience of policing the other side of the lawless "North-West Frontier" between what is today Pakistan and Afghanistan against rebellious Pashtun (then called Pathan) tribes. Virtually not a single year passed between 1849 and 1947 without some kind of large military expedition to quell unrest.

Before 1900 alone, there were 60 such campaigns. In 1897-1898, a general rebellion of the Pathan tribes required the deployment of a 44,000-strong British force to put it down — the largest British field force ever deployed in Asia to that point. But this operation is not remembered within the chronology of any war. Rather, the action of that year is known simply as the Tirah campaign. The key point is that there was no end point to this century of continual armed policing activity. 1947 was merely the date the British left. Thousands of Pakistani troops remain engaged in policing the same tribal regions today.

ap17229709060471.jpg
Defense Secretary James Mattis attends a news conference, Thursday, Aug. 17, 2017, at the State Department in Washington.Associated Press/Jacquelyn Martin



In sum, the notion of "victory" in Afghanistan tends to mislead because it shoehorns the language of conventional war into internal conflict, in which outcomes are usually gauged in terms of relative stability, not decisive victory. That said, decisive victory in internal conflict is sometimes possible, typically when the insurgent force gets so powerful as to field a conventional force and the distinction between conventional and internal war breaks down.

In Afghanistan, that would mean the Taliban converting from a guerrilla to a conventional force in an effort to take and hold big cities but would thus risk presenting a conventional military target that could be defeated in open battle. But the Taliban are unlikely to make that switch, since they would likely lose in conventional battle to US-backed Afghan forces. The Taliban leadership will not likely repeat the mistake the mujahideen made when they switched from guerrilla to conventional war to take over Afghanistan. They were badly defeated at the Battle of Jalalabad by Soviet-backed Afghan forces in 1989, which kept the then-Afghan government in power until the USSR itself collapsed in 1991.

Let's be clear: We're losing in Afghanistan, and the Taliban are winning.But as Field Marshal William Slim once said, "In battle nothing is ever as good or as bad as the first reports of excited men would have it." In other words, stay calm and look at things objectively. The fact remains that while we can't win decisively, neither can the Taliban so long as the United States remains in Afghanistan, as that prevents the Taliban switching to a conventional posture.

One role of any long-term US force is to make clear to the Taliban that they can't win and so ultimately encourage a negotiated outcome. What this would look like has to be up to Afghans, not Westerners, or the settlement will lack legitimacy. But the outlines of any deal would likely be about the southern and eastern Pashtun areas having a more autonomous place within a more decentralized Afghan state.

But US forces have another role to play in Afghanistan — to pressure the Afghan government itself to reform. Where people support the Afghan government, it's not because it is great but because the Taliban are more despised. Realistically, the Afghan government will not reform unless it feels compelled to. To that extent, it is right that any US force should remain small enough to leave the burden of the military fight to Kabul.

The new US Afghanistan strategy — crafted by Defense Secretary James Mattis and National Security Advisor H.R. McMaster — by providing more troops to assist the Afghan government while proposing no timetable for their drawdown, appears to be broadly in line with this view and avoids commitment to the notion of decisive victory. It's not a strategy to get excited about, and that's a good thing.

This column does not necessarily reflect the opinion of Business Insider.

Read the original article on Foreign Policy. "Real World. Real Time." Follow Foreign Policy on Facebook. Subscribe to Foreign Policy here. Copyright 2017. Follow Foreign Policy on Twitter.
http://www.businessinsider.com/there-is-no-war-in-afghanistan-and-the-us-will-never-win-2017-9
 
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US has already won the afghanistan war. Period.

These guys will claim an afghani here and a taliban there. Ab kya wahan americans hi hone chahiye.
 
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US has already won the afghanistan war. Period.

These guys will claim an afghani here and a taliban there. Ab kya wahan americans hi hone chahiye.
LOL how have USA won the war in Afghanistan.

Afghan Taliban are just waiting for USA to leave Afghanistan, then they will storm Kabul, like Tokyo was stormed during WW2. LOL :lol:
 
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LOL how have USA won the war in Afghanistan.

Afghan Taliban are just waiting for USA to leave Afghanistan, then they will storm Kabul, like Tokyo was stormed during WW2. LOL :lol:
Ya, allies didn't won WWII or tokyo..... japanese are still living there. They can retaliate any time.
 
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I'm telling you, Afghan Taliban is going to win. The Afghan Taliban are not defeated.

The war America can't win: how the Taliban are regaining control in Afghanistan
The Taliban control places like Helmand, where the US and UK troops fought their hardest battles, pushing the drive toward peace and progress into reverse

by Sune Engel Rasmussen in Lashkar Gah



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Thursday 3 August 2017 07.00 BSTLast modified on Friday 4 August 2017 07.18 BST

In a rocky graveyard at the edge of Lashkar Gah, a local police commander was digging his sister’s grave.

Her name was Salima, but it was never uttered at her funeral. As is custom in rural Afghanistan, no women attended the ceremony, and of the dozens of men gathered to pay their respects, few had known the deceased.

Salima, like almost all women in Helmand province, had spent most of her life after puberty cloistered in her family home.

Her family said she accidentally shot herself in the face when she came across a Kalashnikov hidden under some blankets while cleaning.

In town – Helmand’s provincial capital – the story was regarded with suspicion, if not surprise. Salima died 10 days before an arranged marriage, but nobody asked any questions: it would be improper to scrutinise a woman’s death.

Her body was lowered into the hole, wrapped in a thin, black shroud. She had lived unseen, and was buried by strangers.

For more than 15 years, women’s empowerment has been claimed as a central pillar of western efforts in Afghanistan. Yet in Helmand, adult women are almost entirely invisible, even in the city. They are the property of their family, and few are able to work or seek higher education, independent medical care or justice.

And if the advancement of women’s rights has moved at a glacial pace in places such as Helmand, the process toward peace has slid backwards. Helmand’s two main towns, Lashkar Gah and Gereshk, are among a handful of places in the province not under Taliban control.

Meanwhile, the Trump administration has yet to define a strategy for Afghanistan.

The US was expected to have approved the deployment of about 4,000 additional troops to Afghanistan by now – the first surge since the withdrawal began in 2011.

Yet the administration is torn. The president himself has wondered aloud “why we’ve been there for 17 years”, and recent reports even suggest that the White House is considering scaling back instead.


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An Afghan border police checkpoint on the frontline at Spinah Kota, on the edge of Lashkar Gah, Helmand. Photograph: Andrew Quilty
In Helmand, which is markedly worse off than when foreign combat troops left three years ago, Afghan forces on the frontline are desperate for support. But critics say that more military power only risks fomenting insurgency.

“Even if you kill all the teenagers, the next generation will join the Taliban,” said Abdul Jabbar Qahraman, a former presidential envoy to Helmand. “The insurgency used to be mostly a business. Now it’s also about revenge.”

Afghanistan is America’s longest war, but it is a war America cannot win. And nowhere is this more evident than in Helmand.

Places where British and American troops fought their hardest battles are now firmly under Taliban control.

Babaji, the scene of one of biggest British air assaults in modern times, fell to the Taliban shortly after the Guardian visited last year.

Marjah – where in 2010 thousands of US, British and Afghan troops launched the largest joint offensive in the war – is firmly in the control of the insurgents.

In Musa Qala, the Taliban run a veritable government; in Lashkar Gah, they are close enough to occasionally lob rockets into the governor’s compound.

Prolonged, large-scale battles are rare. Instead, the war is a slow grind of guerrilla attacks, sporadic gun clashes and the occasional push to overrun a population centre. Homemade bombs – the Taliban’s weapon of choice – continue to spread.


Prolonged, large-scale battles are rare. Instead, the war is a slow grind of guerrilla attacks, sporadic gun clashes and the occasional push to overrun a population centre. Photograph: Andrew Quilty
Several provincial capitals remain in government hands only due to US air support. In the first six months of 2017, the coalition released 1,634 weapons, the highest level of air engagement since 2012.

Once in a while, though, government forces win small successes by striking back with their own unconventional methods.

Lounging in the shade of a plum tree at a police base in the town of Spina Kota, Nesar Zendaneh was dressed in black traditional tunic, sporting a thick moustache under curly bangs that partly covered his druggy, bloodshot eyes.

As part of a unit under the National Directorate of Security, Zendaneh and his colleagues dress like local villagers, infiltrate Taliban areas and conduct sneak attacks.

“I don’t hide from them,” said Zendaneh, as small arms fire crackled nearby. “Four months ago, we snuck up on a group of Taliban and fired on them with RPGs. We killed 10 of them; the rest fled.”

In the summer months, the land, green and overgrown, provides bountiful cover for insurgents. Leaving the base in Spina Kota, a police Humvee sped up as it swerved around a bend in the road.


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Returning to Lashkar Gah in an armoured humvee from a border police checkpoint on the frontline at Spinah Kota, on the edge of the Helmand provincial capital. Photograph: Andrew Quilty
“This is the most dangerous corner,” said the driver, pointing to a white house behind a single sunflower, about 30 meters (100ft) away. “That’s the Taliban right there.”

Often dispatched to frontlines and remote checkpoints, Afghan police have become so militarised that they rarely engage in actual police work. That makes winning the loyalty of the people even harder.

But foreign troops have relied heavily on the police and other local forces, such as the 1,500-strong militia led by Haji Baz Gul, the first community leader to rise up against the Taliban in Marjah, in 2010.

A mild-mannered elder with a cloud of grey beard and a white skullcap, Baz Gul said western forces had left their Afghan allies in the lurch.

After the long fight for Marjah, the US pulled out too soon, he said, leaving salaries for only one-third of his men. The rest were unable to work in their villages after the Taliban returned; they either fled the region or chose to join the militants.


Farmers and buyers amid flocks of sheep and goats and temporary tea houses at the Friday livestock bazaar in Helmand’s provincial capital, Lashkar Gah. Photograph: Andrew Quilty
“The enemy is at our gates,” Gul said. And the Taliban are not just winning the military battle, but hearts and minds too, he added.

Across Helmand, new mosques are cropping up, funded by private businessmen. Government schools, however, stand empty and decrepit.

“We have 2,000 Taliban madrasahs in Helmand. The government is very weak,” he said.

In a province where the war is being fought between neighbours, the frontline can offer a sense of security. For Maj Ghulam Wali Afghan, the only problem with the frontline, where he has been fighting for 15 years, is how to get there.

As he scooted forward in his chair, two of his men gingerly wiggled the stumps that used to be his legs into a pair of prosthetics. Grabbing one leg each, they clicked his knees into place and helped him stand. Six months ago, the police major sustained his first-ever injury when he stepped on a landmine.


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Dusk prayers at a border police base in Lashkar Gar, Helmand’s provincial capital, commanded by Maj Ghulam Wali Afghan, who lost both legs to an IED six months ago. Photograph: Andrew Quilty
“We are tired of fighting,” said Afghan, who commands 330 police. Still, he has nowhere else to go.

Neither does Sardar Mohammad, another police commander, who lost his legs to a mine two years ago. Eleven days later, he was back at the front.

For the men – without formal education, and with no compensation for wounded Afghan veterans – a civilian future holds little promise. At the frontline, they are protected.

“Taliban are my enemy. They can kill me easily. If I leave the job, I will just be at home. Here I have guards,” Mohammad said.

Battle-hardened police commanders such as Afghan and Mohammad have been left to fight the west’s war, but they are not necessarily fuelled by the same ideals of democracy and human rights touted by western leaders and the Kabul government.

The Helmand conflict is highly localised. Mohammad’s enmity with the Taliban began when the Islamists’ regime confiscated his family’s land, and detained and beat his relatives two decades ago. To him, the Taliban’s views on religion, education and women’s role in society are unimportant.

Mohammad’s war is not an ideological one. It is just war.

“We have the same views. We are all Muslims,” he said. Both he and Afghan would welcome more US troops.

“When there are American airplanes and helicopters monitoring in the air, nobody fires at us. When they are not there, we can’t even move one metre without being shot on,” said Mohammad.

Yet neither commander believed military might would end the hostilities. Only a negotiated peace could do that, said Afghan.

“We know from the past 40 years that bullets don’t stop war.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/03/afghanistan-war-helmand-taliban-us-womens-rights-peace
 
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The US has already won the war.

It is Afghanistan which has lost the war.

Democracy reigns supreme in Afghanistan.
 
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LOL how have USA won the war in Afghanistan.

Afghan Taliban are just waiting for USA to leave Afghanistan, then they will storm Kabul, like Tokyo was stormed during WW2. LOL :lol:

Not every war is fought till bitter end. It's an armed conflict that has certain goals,objectives which were met and we were successful in driving away the talibans from main political centres, raised and established the ANA and other security apparatus sufficient enough to defend those important power centres. We have committed and continue to commit just enough troops to sustain all of that.
This is not about winning a war or something, these kind of asymmetrical conflicts doesn't have such things as winning or victory.( yes our presidents in the past have used the term "winning " not because it's related to this conflict but because they are mostly ignorant on these kind of conflicts/ military situation )

The bottom line is we had objectives, we went in and achieved those. Just because you have people/taliban surviving in the remote parts of rural Afghanistan /Pakistan doesn't mean we lost.
 
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The US has already won the war.

It is Afghanistan which has lost the war.

Democracy reigns supreme in Afghanistan.

Better, millions of Afghans are all leaving Pakistan and going to the promised land of Rapistan and opiumland. You know why? Because ‘Murica has according to some twisted rapist twat won the war and that means that Afghans are now liberated LOL
 
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Not every war is fought till bitter end. It's an armed conflict that has certain goals,objectives which were met and we were successful in driving away the talibans from main political centres, raised and established the ANA and other security apparatus sufficient enough to defend those important power centres. We have committed and continue to commit just enough troops to sustain all of that.
This is not about winning a war or something, these kind of asymmetrical conflicts doesn't have such things as winning or victory.( yes our presidents in the past have used the term "winning " not because it's related to this conflict but because they are mostly ignorant on these kind of conflicts/ military situation )

The bottom line is we had objectives, we went in and achieved those. Just because you have people/taliban surviving in the remote parts of rural Afghanistan /Pakistan doesn't mean we lost.

LOL you spare that little lecture of yours for yourself. Stop bragging and making yourself look like a winner here.

Winners don’t blame others or ask for help. They rejoice their victory, pack their bags and leave. We know what happened in Afghanistan. A failed narcotic state where a bunch of child molestors are ruling the roost right under your noses. You got nothing to cheer about.

LOL at achieving objectives. Exactly what objectives did you achieve apart from setting Afghanistan another few decades into the stone-age and making the Afghan Taliban stronger? The irony is that your generals don’t even hide their Afghanistan disappointment and failure under a rug. The world already knows the score in Afghanistan. It is a lost cause and nothing can be extracted from this cursed land. Stop pretending like you gained anything.

After spending more than a trillion dollars, wasting tens of thousands of innocent lives and being stuck infinitely all you got in the end is NOTHING. Afghanistan is just another long list of failures.

There is no begging.... We are the ones who give the AID.

But calling a terrorist, a terrorist is no help. We saw that in UN assembly..... now bark on

LOL Which aid are you talking about? The one that ‘Murica has already minimized and in fact almost entirely halted? You got nothing to brag about here. You got nothing against us. That little ammo that ‘Murica had vaporized in thin air long ago. Pakistan firmly belongs in the Russia/China camp and all you can do is beg and hatch your little pathetic conspiracies from a distance. Our actions and words speak volume. We don’t have to prove our postion to anyone. We made our choice and we stand behind it firmly.

Just keep begging others to do more. The whole world knows what state ‘Murica is in right now LOL

A clown who humiliates ‘Murica on Twitter and the UN podium. What war is this country going to fight when it is at war with itself? How many wars is this country going to fight when it is at odds with just about the entire world.

Now give me answers to the following questions:

- When is the Mexican wall going to be built and paid by Mexican money?
- When are ALL the Muslims going to be banned? Just like pledged during the election campaign.
- When are we going to end Obamacare? Just like pledged during the election campaign.
- Which country is called Nambia? I’m not joking here.
 
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Better, millions of Afghans are all leaving Pakistan and going to the promised land of Rapistan and opiumland. You know why? Because ‘Murica has according to some twisted rapist twat won the war and that means that Afghans are now liberated LOL

Kabul is liberated said De Gaul.

Its time for America's glorious exit after liberating Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is freed.

This was sent from free WiFi in a bikini car wash in Kabul.
 
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Kabul is liberated said De Gaul.

Its time for America's glorious exit after liberating Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is freed.

This was sent from free WiFi in a bikini car wash in Kabul.

LOL Man, where these clowns find the audacity to claim victory when they literally beg others to do more. It is outragous.
 
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LOL Man, where these clowns find the audacity to claim victory when they literally beg others to do more. It is outragous.

Americans need no claims of victory.

War on terror achieved its target in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan should really do more to establish consensus and find out an Afghan solution to an Afghanistan government.

And the world should always do more.
 
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LOL Man, where these clowns find the audacity to claim victory when they literally beg others to do more. It is outragous.
Agreed with you.

This war on terrorism in Afghanistan is starting to look bad now. Osama Bin Laden is dead now.

Americans should leave Afghanistan. There is no reason for them to be there now.

The world needs peace now.
 
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Americans need no claims of victory.

War on terror achieved its target in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan should really do more to establish consensus and find out an Afghan solution to an Afghanistan government.

And the world should always do more.

It is for everyone to see. It is a laughable claim. Opiumland is an utter mess. The likes of China and Russia are more than happy to see Trumpland languish in Afghanistan for eternity. Not a single objective met. Billions of taxpayers money gone to waste. Thousands of lives lost on all sides. Yet, still asking to do more... These people got a very strange definition of victory and objectives.

Did I even mention the current fiasco with North Korea, Iran, Russia etc.? LOL Anyone can do the math on how victorious and successful the ‘Muricans were and are going to be in Afghanistan.

Agreed with you.

This war on terrorism in Afghanistan is starting to look bad now. Osama Bin Laden is dead now.

Americans should leave Afghanistan. There is no reason for them to be there now.

The world needs peace now.

The ‘Muricans want more disgrace. They have learnt nothing. Today, the White House is hijacked by a bunch of generals who have ousted Trump’s alt-right minions. The generals are setting the agenda. A failed agenda that is.

It is better for the ‘Muricans to mind their own business. Let them for once get their act together and find some consensus on getting a healthcare bill passed. All this nonsensical worry about winning wars has screwed up their mind.
 
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