USA sold Highly Degraded Versions of M1 Abrams MBTs variants to Saudia, Egypt and Iraq

[shazlion]

I want to ask, How much T-series Syria has lost since June last year until today? and compared them with the total of Iraqi tanks lost? All in all, Abrams performance is very good and quite decisive to halt the ISIS movement, in the hands of competent soldiers they are formidable machine, but when in the hand of deserter ...... you had known the rest of case

Iraq War is not full fledged War but Syria is, also ISIS militants are control by Saudis, Israel and West NWO freaks so they are ordered not to destroy all Abram Tanks and ISIS militants are not supplied enough Anti Tank Weapons to be used in both theaters of War (Syria & Iraq) by Turkey, SA, USA and West
so it is baseless of saying that Militants did not destroy enough Iraqi Abrams tanks but not T-Series tanks in Syria

 

[Zarvan]

Against T-55? WTF.

It missed shots,overheated etc and after that we started the AK project .. !

But even at that time .., we had been building T-85IIMs etc which were more advanced than type-59s.

Don't embarass yourself.

Mr this was told by a Brigadier of Pakistan Army to Wajahat Khan in DAWN NEWS Program

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Mr this was told by a Brigadier of Pakistan Army to Wajahat Khan in DAWN NEWS Program

Mr .. Why don't you post the link? Or just shut up mr.. Ok mr?

 

[Zarvan]

Mr .. Why don't you post the link? Or just shut up mr.. Ok mr?

I watched it years ago these are those programs which Wajahat Khan did for Dawn about our Armed Forces there different areas and weapons and all that stuff

 

[kakathiya]

The Abrams have already been tested against professional or conventional armies.

do you call the middle eastern ragtag armies as professional armies?

 

[SipahSalar]

Egypt got the license to produce them domestically, so it made sense for them.

So while M1 might be a good tank, it simply wasn't for Pakistan.......and it's not like Pakistan did not test it, they did it, and they refused.

Yes. You went on to say the exact same thing what i had already said. If Pakistan had gotten the exact same package Egypt did, i am sure we would have accepted the Abrams, but we didn't and egypt did. So it didn't make sense for us to go for Abrams, but for Egyptians, it was the right choice.

So what is the fuss all about? Just because Egypt procured an American tank it must be good for Pakistan as well?

Again, i already said something similar in a previous post.

Abrams tank certainly carries a lot of prestige because it's American, a lot of American equipment carries prestige, especially amongst arabs, sometimes well deserved and sometimes not. Pakistani military is a very pragmatic force, in their judgement the Abrams did not offer much bang for their buck.

 

[kakathiya]

After all, some people have forgotten that training and expertise weighs in combat far more than does technology, and thus a M1 Abrams with an incompetent crew would fare far less brilliantly than would a notional inferior tank with the cream-of-the-crop at its controls.

you are right, many mighty helicopters are shot down with a puny shoulder fired rocket launchers,that's what i said like in Egypt and Israeli war Egyptians devastated the Israeli tanks with their small rocketry, and during the India Pakistan war the mighty american Patton tanks of Pakistan which were said to be invincible at that time were redused to trash by the Indian army with their 90 mm shells mounted on four wheeler, using hit and move strategy one solider had said to have destroyed 7 tanks in a go, Google about Patton nagar, the grave yard of tanks, over 90 tanks were destroyed in few days.

and i think the cunning Americans always give the third grade weapons to their allies in middle east, and keep their first grade to themselves and give their second grade to European friends. the american way of doing business the tin can way

 

[SipahSalar]

one solider had said to have destroyed 7 tanks in a go

You are being fed propaganda kiddo. The battle of chaminda saw the demise of the premier indian armoured division and had the indians rushing towards cease fire. It's all well documented.

 

[kakathiya]

You are being fed propaganda kiddo. The battle of chaminda saw the demise of the premier indian armoured division and had the indians rushing towards cease fire. It's all well documented.

OK we had low tech T55 cheap tanks and you had the invincible expensive PATTON high tech tanks so compare the both

 

[My-Analogous]

let us see the true if M1A1 are coffins what about tank based of Chinese T-59 TANK and Ukrainian engine

that kind of thinking not make something like
Al-Khalid Tank value

Pakistani not understand low level technology like AK Khalid & JF-17 not make it superior

high quality product prove it self in the international market

why countries purchase T-50 or K9 and x2 as Korean product very fast and no one interest in cheap PAKISTANI PRODUCT answer quality and high technology and reliability product

instead in blame first staff product and give them understatement
try produce high technology and high quality product

Pakistani have right to proud any thing produce but not have right underestimated other armies

we in Egypt produce more than 1000 M1A1 from 1992 and develop our tank with local technology and foreign and we can investment more money in development

finely if Pakistani can get M1 sure will go for it and not think in junk tanks

Did you ever read the specification of AL Khalid?. I feel your post a most idiotic post without proven with any link.

 

[Oldman1]

do you call the middle eastern ragtag armies as professional armies?

So you are implying every army in the ME is ragtag?

 

[Penguin]

Here is the thing, Pakistan tried the M1s, and it did not meet the army's requirements, plus that it had a gas turbine, which was determined to be very costly to repair in the heat of the battle....they wanted simplicity and if another tank could do that, why would you go with M1? Just because it is American?

Costly? Like most modern MBTs (Leo 1/2, Chally 1/2, LeClerq etc etc) if you have a problem with the engine in the heat of battle you swap out the entire powerpack for a new one and deal with repairing the malfunctioning pack later (at your Leisure)

 

[SipahSalar]

Costly? Like most modern MBTs (Leo 1/2, Chally 1/2, LeClerq etc etc) if you have a problem with the engine in the heat of battle you swap out the entire powerpack for a new one and deal with repairing the malfunctioning pack later (at your Leisure)

You seemed to address the tactical issue rather than the cost issue...the more an engine is likely to malfunction, the more you need in spares. Meaning increased costs.

 

[Donatello]

Costly? Like most modern MBTs (Leo 1/2, Chally 1/2, LeClerq etc etc) if you have a problem with the engine in the heat of battle you swap out the entire powerpack for a new one and deal with repairing the malfunctioning pack later (at your Leisure)

Which compared to the Ukrainian and Chinese engines, is a lot more expensive, since you need constant support and spares from the US of A. Repairing a broken down diesel is easier than a gas turbine. Isn't exactly the same thing.

 

[Penguin]

You seemed to address the tactical issue rather than the cost issue...the more an engine is likely to malfunction, the more you need in spares. Meaning increased costs.

The gas turbine propulsion system has proven quite reliable in practice and combat, but its high fuel consumption is a serious logistic issue. The engine burns more than 1.67 US gallons (6.3 L) per mile (60 US gallons (230 L) per hour) when traveling cross-country and 10 US gallons (38 L) per hour when idle. The high speed, high temperature jet blast emitted from the rear of M1 Abrams tanks makes it difficult for the infantry to proceed shadowing the tank in urban combat. The turbine is very quiet when compared to diesel engines of similar power output and produces a significantly different sound from a contemporary diesel tank engine, reducing the audible distance of the sound, thus earning the Abrams the nickname "whispering death".

Which compared to the Ukrainian and Chinese engines, is a lot more expensive, since you need constant support and spares from the US of A. Repairing a broken down diesel is easier than a gas turbine. Isn't exactly the same thing.

Mmm. it was my understanding that the difference isn't all that big sometimes, e.g. SACM (now Wärtsilä) V8X-1500 1,500 hp Hyperbar diesel engine. The "hyperbar" system integrates a Turbomeca TM 307B gas turbine in the engine, acting both as a turbocharger and an APU giving auxiliary power to all systems when the main engine is shut down.
Besides, the M1 can also accommodate the MTu MT 883 EuroPowerPack, also proposed in Chally 2E and used in export LeClercs, while the smaller 881 is used in PzH 2000.General Dynamics is offering the Tognum America/12V883 diesel engine. Incorporating the diesel engine into the Abrams would decrease the operating cost of an armored brigade combat team by 14 percent per mile, increase its operating range from 205 miles to 300+ miles, and use half the amount of fuel on a combat day than the turbine engine.