USA sold Highly Degraded Versions of M1 Abrams MBTs variants to Saudia, Egypt and Iraq

[Oublious]

BS article, people think Tank is industructible. The problem is you Iraqies couldn't fight. Blame your self for the loss.

 

[SipahSalar]

If Pakistan was offered the M1, would it make fun of it?

Pakistan was offered M1's. Their trials were conducted in Pakistan no less than 30 years ago. They were deemed unfit to operate in high temperature environment of Cholistan desert, they required too much fuel (a very long supply chain), and were very maintenence heavy. Thankfully better senses prevailed.

 

[shazlion]

He's pretty much saying that every tank is a coffin. M1, T-90, Leo. Regardless, 1 lucky hit is all it takes.
High quality products create interests for it on the international arms market.
Rather than blame, first learn about it then modify it to make it better.
Pakistan has to right to make military equipment and be proud of it, but that doesn't mean underestimating a soldier's resolve.
If Pakistan was offered the M1, would it make fun of it?
@sami_1 no need to get angry. Military equipment is only part of the answer on winning wars.

I ask the Q. like
USA sold Highly Degraded Versions of M1 Abrams MBTs variants to Saudia, Egypt and Iraq
& Buying Downgraded MBTs from USA is like Buying Coffins? Yes or No Choices
Not Ask that every tank is a Coffin, but only from USA M1 Abrams MBTs
Truth sets you free

Peace & Prosperity for the World by ending Gog Magog NWO - Ameen
Thanks

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Nonsense, most of arm deal are basically got to do with alliance , kickback and perception. For example, Iraq was conquered by US. Defintiely US can forced the Iraq down their throat with whatever they sell for some quick bucks. Nothing to do with performance and prices.

Look at the Saudi Typhoon deal, BAE bribed Saudi officers with woman, money and liquid.

BAE admits guilt over corrupt arms deals | World news | The Guardian

While German bribed their ways into Greek defense and bankrupt the nation military budget.
Complicit in Corruption: How German Companies Bribed Their Way to Greek Deals - SPIEGEL ONLINE

US and Russia have a long history of alliance with many countries, of cos their defense sales will be easier with loyalty.

Even most of SKorea weaponry contains many US component which has the blessing of US for sales to allies countries.

But as other countries rises and influence growth, slowly those traditional power will faded and military transaction will flourished.

To simply think other countries system has no merit and cant compete is as good as those corruption whitewashed.

High quality products create interests in that product.

You're correct most military deals are in terms of Alliances. The Egypt-US Military Aid was only possible with Egypt signing the Israeli-Egypt Peace Deal, and US willingness to dangle the carrot for Egypt to come to the finish line.

The US didn't force Iraq to buy the F-16s, or M1s Iraq knew it needed American support after the SOFA agreement expired in 2014. Military sales are a way to create long lasting influence/ relations with a country.

Pakistan was offered M1's. Their trials were conducted in Pakistan no less than 30 years ago. They were deemed unfit to operate in high temperature environment of Cholistan desert, they required too much fuel (a very long supply chain), and were very maintenence heavy. Thankfully better senses prevailed.

I know that. @sami_1 is just emotional.

 

[Penguin]

They aren't downgraded but older versions. Downgrading means they were modern and then their modern components were intentionally removed.

They aren't downgraded but older versions. Downgrading means they were modern and then their modern components were intentionally removed.

Indeed, see: M1 Abrams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The M1 Abrams entered U.S. service in 1980, replacing the M60 tank.[12] It served for over a decade alongside the improved M60A3, which had entered service in 1978. The M1 remains the principal main battle tank of the United States Army and Marine Corps, and the armies of Egypt, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Australia and Iraq

M1A1: Production started in 1985 and continued to 1992, pressurized NBC system, rear bustle rack for improved stowage of supplies and crew belongings, redesigned blow-off panels and M256 120 mm smoothbore cannon (4,976 built for the U.S. Army, 221 for USMC, 755 for Egypt, 59 M1A1 AIM SA sold to Australia).
M1A1M: An export variant ordered by the Iraqi Army
M1A1SA (Special Armor): configuration for the Royal Moroccan Army
M1A2 (Baseline): Production began in 1992 (77 built for the US and more than 600 M1s upgraded to M1A2, 315 for Saudi Arabia, 218 for Kuwait).

• 
  Australia – Australian Army: 59 M1A1 (AIM) configuration (hybrids with a mix of equipment used by U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps tanks, without depleted uranium layers in armor) tanks were bought from the United States in 2006, to replace the Leopard AS1 in 2007.[94]

• 
  Egypt – Egyptian Army: 1,005 M1A1 tanks co-produced by the U.S. and Egypt for the Egyptian army. Another 200 tanks have been ordered.[95]

• 
  Iraq – Iraqi Army: 140 M1A1Ms (downgraded, without depleted uranium layers in armor). Iraq was leasing 22 U.S. Army M1A1s for training in 2008.[80][96][97][98] The first 11 tanks were delivered to the Iraqi Army in August 2010.[99] All were delivered by August 2011.[100] In October 2012, it was reported that six more tanks were being delivered.[101]

• 
  Kuwait – Kuwaiti Army: 218 M1A2s (downgraded, without depleted uranium layers in armor)[102]

• 
  Saudi Arabia – Saudi Arabian Army: 373 Abrams tanks,[103] To be upgraded to M1A2S configuration in Saudi Arabia.[103] 69 more M1A2S tanks ordered on 8 January 2013, to be delivered by 31 July 2014.[104]

• 
  United States – United States Army and United States Marine Corps have received over 8,100 M1, M1A1 and M1A2 tanks combined.[105][106]

• U.S. Army

1,174 M1A2 and M1A2SEP variants[106]
4,393 M1A1 variants[106]

• U.S. Marine Corps

403 M1A1

.Folks here have the misguided idea that top of the line tanks are somehow invulnerable. The opposite is the truth. ANY tank is vulnerable, esp. when deployed with poorly trained personnel and using bad tactics / wrong doctrine.

A 25mm KBB cannon from an AIFV firing APFSDS munition can kill an Abrams, provided it get's it in the rear. ANd it doesn't even have to be very close!

It says exactly ... nothing. After all, the heaviest armors are always at the front (in declining order of level of protection: turret front, glacis, turret sides, fronthull sides etc...). With the right weapons and tactics tanks are very vulnerable esp if operating unsupported by (mechanized) infantry, attack helicopters etc.

 

[MICA]

We gave Abrams a go.
They just didnt seemed suitable to us.

still a better tank than Al-Khalid though

 

[TheNoob]

still a better tank than Al-Khalid though

Better, it may be.
But then again read this.

Pakistan was offered M1's. Their trials were conducted in Pakistan no less than 30 years ago. They were deemed unfit to operate in high temperature environment of Cholistan desert, they required too much fuel (a very long supply chain), and were very maintenence heavy. Thankfully better senses prevailed.

so AK proves itself better in that case, because its not worth having a maintenence heavy downgraded useless tank. lol

 

[Penguin]

Has anyone here ever heard of the T-72M? Now there's a downrated for export version of a tank if ever there was one. Why don't I see you guy complaining about Russia for doing that?

 

[razgriz19]

Has anyone here ever heard of the T-72M? Now there's a downrated for export version of a tank if ever there was one. Why don't I see you guy complaining about Russia for doing that?

The thing is, whatever you give them they will find a way to destroy it. That's Arabs for ya!
And that has more to do with the lack of quality training plus low morale of the force.

 

[Penguin]

The thing is, whatever you give them they will find a way to destroy it. That's Arabs for ya!
And that has more to do with the lack of quality training plus low morale of the force.

We're all the same....

Studies have reported that most Irish and Britons are descendants of farmers who left modern day Iraq and Syria 10,000 years ago. Genetic researchers say they have found compelling evidence that four out of five (80% of) white Europeans can trace their roots to the Near East. In another study, scientists analysed DNA from the 8,000 year-old remains of early farmers found at an ancient graveyard in Germany. They compared the genetic signatures to those of modern populations and found similarities with the DNA of people living in today's Turkey and Iraq

Iraqi people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Babur Han]

They arab States can wait around 6 Years, in this Time inshaallah domestic Powerpack and Transmission for Altay is ready for serial Production ! No Second Class MBT anymore !

 

[duhastmish]

If they could have painted them in golden. Price will go up by couple of folds.

 

[خره مينه لګته وي]

Why is the Iraqi army losing Abrams tanks so easily?

ISIS militant standing over burnt out Iraqi Army M1A-1 Abrams.

The Iraqi Army has about 140 M1A-1 Abrams tanks in its inventory,
and they are steadily taking casualties at the hands of ISIS.

Recently, an entire column of Abrams and M113 APCs in Anbar province were thrashed in an ISIS ambush. The tanks were driven into ditches (probably the drivers panicked) or abandoned by the Iraqis then set on fire by the ISIS fighters (who won't know how to use these advanced vehicles for themselves)

For one thing the Iraqi versions were downgraded, particularly in their armor which doesn't contain depleted uranium, unlike US M1s. I also imagine they were issued without the latest US communications, electronics and fire-control systems and are probably using older versions

Operators (Source: M1 Abrams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• 
  Australia – Australian Army: 59 M1A1 (AIM) configuration (hybrids with a mix of equipment used by U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps tanks, without depleted uranium layers in armor) tanks were bought from the United States in 2006, to replace the Leopard AS1 in 2007.[94]

• 
  Egypt – Egyptian Army: 1,005 M1A1 tanks co-produced by the U.S. and Egypt for the Egyptian army. Another 200 tanks have been ordered.[95]

• 
  Iraq – Iraqi Army: 140 M1A1Ms (downgraded, without depleted uranium layers in armor). Iraq was leasing 22 U.S. Army M1A1s for training in 2008.[80][96][97][98] The first 11 tanks were delivered to the Iraqi Army in August 2010.[99] All were delivered by August 2011.[100] In October 2012, it was reported that six more tanks were being delivered.[101]

• 
  Kuwait – Kuwaiti Army: 218 M1A2s (downgraded, without depleted uranium layers in armor)[102]

• 
  Saudi Arabia – Saudi Arabian Army: 373 Abrams tanks,[103] To be upgraded to M1A2S configuration in Saudi Arabia.[103] 69 more M1A2S tanks ordered on 8 January 2013, to be delivered by 31 July 2014.[104]

• 
  United States – United States Army and United States Marine Corps have received over 8,100 M1, M1A1 and M1A2 tanks combined.[105][106]

• U.S. Army

1,174 M1A2 and M1A2SEP variants[106]
4,393 M1A1 variants

The Abrams Iraq uses is the M1A1M, an M1A1 with no Depleted Uranium strike plates, downgraded FCS and a few other water downs. The DU is a major part of Abrams armor.

The weapons ISIS uses are more advanced than those of the Abrams, like RPG-29, Kornet ATGM's and massive IED's. The downgraded armor is susceptible to the weapons.

The Iraqi army is suffering the same fate as other armies have ; They dont have infantry clearing the buildings around the tank or protecting the tanks from people getting on the tank and throwing grenades, molotovs or shooting inside. AT teams arent cleared of the tanks route

New army with 0% experience & inferior air support, lack of motivation and almost everyone is corrupt from top to bottom in this case what else u can expect !! They have one option to run and save their lives..

 

[SipahSalar]

still a better tank than Al-Khalid though

That's over simplifying it simply because it depends on which version of Abrams are you comparing to Al-Khalid?
If it's the Earliest version of Abrams M1A1 that Egypt has, then Al-Khalid will wipe the floor with it because it has superior Fire Control System and an auto-loader (For some reason western armies don't like auto-loader, its mostly a Russian thing).
If its the latest version that USA uses, then yes, Abrams is better.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

let us see the true if M1A1 are coffins what about tank based of Chinese T-59 TANK and Ukrainian engine

that kind of thinking not make something like
Al-Khalid Tank value

Pakistani not understand low level technology like AK Khalid & JF-17 not make it superior

high quality product prove it self in the international market

why countries purchase T-50 or K9 and x2 as Korean product very fast and no one interest in cheap PAKISTANI PRODUCT answer quality and high technology and reliability product

instead in blame first staff product and give them understatement
try produce high technology and high quality product

Pakistani have right to proud any thing produce but not have right underestimated other armies

we in Egypt produce more than 1000 M1A1 from 1992 and develop our tank with local technology and foreign and we can investment more money in development

finely if Pakistani can get M1 sure will go for it and not think in junk tanks

You don't know jack about AK and here you are trying to diss it as "low level technology"?

Type 59:

AK:

What do you know about AKs tank gun,protection systems?armour (boron based),era? IBMS?data connectivity with UAVs,imagery sights? Hunter killer system? RCWS?FCS?imagery systems ?


As for Abrams we TESTED them in the 90s! Do I need to say more ?

P.S: your saudi brothers recently purchased 150,also in service with Morroco? Peru ? Myanmar,a bangladesh ( the Peruvian,bangladeshi an myanmar vaiants were watered down export versions though .. Sold at almost 4 million $ each.


Jf-17 .. Again what do you know about it? You (Egypt) don't even have a big industrial base to boast about such stuff.. You are also assembling Sino-Pak (JV) K-8 jet trainers ...