USA sold Highly Degraded Versions of M1 Abrams MBTs variants to Saudia, Egypt and Iraq

[shazlion]

Why is the Iraqi army losing Abrams tanks so easily?

ISIS militant standing over burnt out Iraqi Army M1A-1 Abrams.

The Iraqi Army has about 140 M1A-1 Abrams tanks in its inventory,
and they are steadily taking casualties at the hands of ISIS.

Recently, an entire column of Abrams and M113 APCs in Anbar province were thrashed in an ISIS ambush. The tanks were driven into ditches (probably the drivers panicked) or abandoned by the Iraqis then set on fire by the ISIS fighters (who won't know how to use these advanced vehicles for themselves)

For one thing the Iraqi versions were downgraded, particularly in their armor which doesn't contain depleted uranium, unlike US M1s. I also imagine they were issued without the latest US communications, electronics and fire-control systems and are probably using older versions

Operators (Source: M1 Abrams - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

• 
  Australia – Australian Army: 59 M1A1 (AIM) configuration (hybrids with a mix of equipment used by U.S. Army and U.S. Marine Corps tanks, without depleted uranium layers in armor) tanks were bought from the United States in 2006, to replace the Leopard AS1 in 2007.[94]

• 
  Egypt – Egyptian Army: 1,005 M1A1 tanks co-produced by the U.S. and Egypt for the Egyptian army. Another 200 tanks have been ordered.[95]

• 
  Iraq – Iraqi Army: 140 M1A1Ms (downgraded, without depleted uranium layers in armor). Iraq was leasing 22 U.S. Army M1A1s for training in 2008.[80][96][97][98] The first 11 tanks were delivered to the Iraqi Army in August 2010.[99] All were delivered by August 2011.[100] In October 2012, it was reported that six more tanks were being delivered.[101]

• 
  Kuwait – Kuwaiti Army: 218 M1A2s (downgraded, without depleted uranium layers in armor)[102]

• 
  Saudi Arabia – Saudi Arabian Army: 373 Abrams tanks,[103] To be upgraded to M1A2S configuration in Saudi Arabia.[103] 69 more M1A2S tanks ordered on 8 January 2013, to be delivered by 31 July 2014.[104]

• 
  United States – United States Army and United States Marine Corps have received over 8,100 M1, M1A1 and M1A2 tanks combined.[105][106]

• U.S. Army

1,174 M1A2 and M1A2SEP variants[106]
4,393 M1A1 variants

The Abrams Iraq uses is the M1A1M, an M1A1 with no Depleted Uranium strike plates, downgraded FCS and a few other water downs. The DU is a major part of Abrams armor.

The weapons ISIS uses are more advanced than those of the Abrams, like RPG-29, Kornet ATGM's and massive IED's. The downgraded armor is susceptible to the weapons.

The Iraqi army is suffering the same fate as other armies have ; They dont have infantry clearing the buildings around the tank or protecting the tanks from people getting on the tank and throwing grenades, molotovs or shooting inside. AT teams arent cleared of the tanks route

 

[shazlion]

Iraqi Army has lost 5 M1A1 MBTs...



The armor on five of Iraq's M1A1 Abrams tanks was penetrated by anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) and six helicopters were shot down between 1 January and the end of May, The New York Times quoted an unnamed US official as saying on 13 June.
The official said 28 Iraqi Army Abrams had been damaged in fighting with militants, five of them suffering full armor penetration when hit by ATGMs. The United States supplied 140 refurbished M1A1 Abrams tanks to Iraq between 2010 and 2012. While they have new equipment to improve situational awareness, they do not have the depleted uranium amour package that increases protection over the tank's frontal arc.
The penetration of a tank's armor by a shaped-charge warhead increases the likelihood of crew casualties, but does not necessarily result in the destruction of the vehicle, especially if it has a dedicated ammunition compartment, as in the case of the Abrams.
However, the US official said the Iraqi Army has problems maintaining its Abrams, suggesting it will struggle to get damaged tanks back into service

At least one video has emerged showing an Abrams 'brew up' after being hit by an ATGM during fighting this year in the western province of Al-Anbar. Militants operating in Al-Anbar have also released images of numerous attacks on other Abrams tanks, including ones involving a 9K11 Kornet ATGM, RPG-7 rocket-propelled grenade launchers, and a M70 Osa rocket launcher. The latter is a Yugoslavian weapon that has been widely used by insurgents in neighbouring Syria, but is rarely seen in Iraq. In the above photo the ammo compartment is operating as designed. Its deflecting the blast out and away from the crew so that doesn't excite me much.

What does concern is the fact that freaking RPG-7's are able to penetrate a MBT.

Here is where I vacillate.

The US Army had the good stuff and those weapons were able to penetrate their tanks...the ones with the DU armor (the briefings said that the anti-tank crews firing the rockets must have had training on where to hit those tanks but still...).

If you can pin a MBT with an RPG then does that mean the IFV concept is dead? Doesn't it make sense to transport infantry to the edge of the battlefield (ala the classic battle taxi or armored personnel concept) and advance on foot instead of transporting them onto the objective and fighting from within the vehicle? Does the USMC need to follow the Army's lead and push ISR assets down to the Battalion level (I'm talking about Predator sized assets not these hand launched systems) so that we can better protect our vehicles from anti-armor teams?

 

[TheNoob]

Well. they wouldnt sell it if they didnt downgrade it.
its just business and being one step ahead of your future (could be) enemy.

 

[Nike]

I want to ask, How much T-series Syria has lost since June last year until today? and compared them with the total of Iraqi tanks lost? All in all, Abrams performance is very good and quite decisive to halt the ISIS movement, in the hands of competent soldiers they are formidable machine, but when in the hand of deserter ...... you had known the rest of case

 

[black-hawk_101]

Then they should return back to USA or give them to Egypt against US money as Egyptian equipment is free from USA....

 

[flamer84]

A video with an RPG directly taking out an Abrams ?

Lost so many ? 5....lol

 

[Manindra]

A video with an RPG directly taking out an Abrams ?

Lost so many ? 5....lol

And fighting in urban area with open hatch & without infantry backup

 

[SipahSalar]

They aren't downgraded but older versions. Downgrading means they were modern and then their modern components were intentionally removed.

They aren't downgraded but older versions. Downgrading means they were modern and then their modern components were intentionally removed.

 

[sami_1]

let us see the true if M1A1 are coffins what about tank based of Chinese T-59 TANK and Ukrainian engine

that kind of thinking not make something like
Al-Khalid Tank value

Pakistani not understand low level technology like AK Khalid & JF-17 not make it superior

high quality product prove it self in the international market

why countries purchase T-50 or K9 and x2 as Korean product very fast and no one interest in cheap PAKISTANI PRODUCT answer quality and high technology and reliability product

instead in blame first staff product and give them understatement
try produce high technology and high quality product

Pakistani have right to proud any thing produce but not have right underestimated other armies

we in Egypt produce more than 1000 M1A1 from 1992 and develop our tank with local technology and foreign and we can investment more money in development

finely if Pakistani can get M1 sure will go for it and not think in junk tanks

 

[Beast]

let us see the true if M1A1 are coffins what about tank based of Chinese T-59 TANK and Ukrainian engine

that kind of thinking not make something like
Al-Khalid Tank value

Pakistani not understand low level technology like AK Khalid & JF-17 not make it superior

high quality product prove it self in the international market

why countries purchase T-50 or K9 and x2 as Korean product very fast and no one interest in cheap PAKISTANI PRODUCT answer quality and high technology and reliability product

instead in blame first staff product and give them understatement
try produce high technology and high quality product

Pakistani have right to proud any thing produce but not have right underestimated other armies

we in Egypt produce more than 1000 M1A1 from 1992 and develop our tank with local technology and foreign and we can investment more money in development

finely if Pakistani can get M1 sure will go for it and not think in junk tanks

Are you high on drugs?

 

[Zhukov]

let us see the true if M1A1 are coffins what about tank based of Chinese T-59 TANK and Ukrainian engine

that kind of thinking not make something like
Al-Khalid Tank value

Pakistani not understand low level technology like AK Khalid & JF-17 not make it superior

high quality product prove it self in the international market

why countries purchase T-50 or K9 and x2 as Korean product very fast and no one interest in cheap PAKISTANI PRODUCT answer quality and high technology and reliability product

instead in blame first staff product and give them understatement
try produce high technology and high quality product

Pakistani have right to proud any thing produce but not have right underestimated other armies

we in Egypt produce more than 1000 M1A1 from 1992 and develop our tank with local technology and foreign and we can investment more money in development

finely if Pakistani can get M1 sure will go for it and not think in junk tanks

English please.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

Are you high on drugs?

English please.

He's pretty much saying that every tank is a coffin. M1, T-90, Leo. Regardless, 1 lucky hit is all it takes.

High quality products create interests for it on the international arms market.

Rather than blame, first learn about it then modify it to make it better.

Pakistan has to right to make military equipment and be proud of it, but that doesn't mean underestimating a soldier's resolve.

If Pakistan was offered the M1, would it make fun of it?

@sami_1 no need to get angry. Military equipment is only part of the answer on winning wars.

 

[Beast]

He's pretty much saying that every tank is a coffin. M1, T-90, Leo. Regardless, 1 lucky hit is all it takes.

High quality products create interests for it on the international arms market.

Rather than blame, first learn about it then modify it to make it better.

Pakistan has to right to make military equipment and be proud of it, but that doesn't mean underestimating a soldier's resolve.

If Pakistan was offered the M1, would it make fun of it?

@sami_1 no need to get angry. Military equipment is only part of the answer on winning wars.

Nonsense, most of arm deal are basically got to do with alliance , kickback and perception. For example, Iraq was conquered by US. Defintiely US can forced the Iraq down their throat with whatever they sell for some quick bucks. Nothing to do with performance and prices.

Look at the Saudi Typhoon deal, BAE bribed Saudi officers with woman, money and liquid.

BAE admits guilt over corrupt arms deals | World news | The Guardian

While German bribed their ways into Greek defense and bankrupt the nation military budget.
Complicit in Corruption: How German Companies Bribed Their Way to Greek Deals - SPIEGEL ONLINE

US and Russia have a long history of alliance with many countries, of cos their defense sales will be easier with loyalty.

Even most of SKorea weaponry contains many US component which has the blessing of US for sales to allies countries.

But as other countries rises and influence growth, slowly those traditional power will faded and military transaction will flourished.

To simply think other countries system has no merit and cant compete is as good as those corruption whitewashed.

 

[TheNoob]

let us see the true if M1A1 are coffins what about tank based of Chinese T-59 TANK and Ukrainian engine

that kind of thinking not make something like
Al-Khalid Tank value

Pakistani not understand low level technology like AK Khalid & JF-17 not make it superior

high quality product prove it self in the international market

why countries purchase T-50 or K9 and x2 as Korean product very fast and no one interest in cheap PAKISTANI PRODUCT answer quality and high technology and reliability product

instead in blame first staff product and give them understatement
try produce high technology and high quality product

Pakistani have right to proud any thing produce but not have right underestimated other armies

we in Egypt produce more than 1000 M1A1 from 1992 and develop our tank with local technology and foreign and we can investment more money in development

finely if Pakistani can get M1 sure will go for it and not think in junk tanks

We gave Abrams a go.
They just didnt seemed suitable to us.

 

[Super Falcon]

Americans are not worthy friends they change sides like whore changes man who ever thinking USA is a friend itself is own enemy