US want to kill more Pakistan people

[ashokdeiva]

US is not a fool guys, US hunts terrorist who were air lifted from the KUNDUS air port during the war in AFGANISTAN. Pakistan publically said that they are with US and under the table they cut deals with TALIBAN and Al QUIDA so that they can nurture these guys again to power so that they thnk they can stop INDIAN influence in Afganistan.
now because the ISI and PA decided to double cross the US, Drones are flying day and night over PAKISTAN shooting down terrorist and in the process innocent civilians get messed up.

 

[OrionHunter]

A question: Could these be sourced from the NATO containers that allegedly went missing in Pakistan per a story several months ago? After all, the bara bazars are full of winter jackets and night visions goggles, are they not?

Irfan also mentioned armour piercing bullets. But I don't think war like equipment is being sent across in those containers for fear of them falling into the hands of the Taliban or forces inimical to NATO/ISAF. Containers consist of US commando boots, safety shoes, army uniforms, glasses, knives, torches, tools, socks, beds, night vision goggles, jackets, medical equipment, spares etc, but no weapons and ammo.

And 15,000 containers are stolen each year in Pakistan!!!

A NATO truck driver based in Karachi explains what happens:

> Truckers often have contacts with criminal gangs, who hijack trucks and give a share of the loot to the driver under the table.
> The looters cover their tracks by hiring expert forgers, who break the seals of the target container without signs of forced entry.
> The pillaged container is then filled with rocks, sand, and cement, to counter the lost weight.
> Lastly, the forgers reseal the container and get away with the loot.

Because of Taliban fighters disguising themselves in stolen Army uniforms, the Pentagon has previously warned commanders not to ship "sensitive cargo" through Pakistan, and instead have it flown directly into Afghanistan.



Read more: This Is How More Than 15,000 Containers Of NATO Military Gear Are Stolen Each Year - Business Insider

 

[Irfan Baloch]

US is not a fool guys, US hunts terrorist who were air lifted from the KUNDUS air port during the war in AFGANISTAN. Pakistan publically said that they are with US and under the table they cut deals with TALIBAN and Al QUIDA so that they can nurture these guys again to power so that they thnk they can stop INDIAN influence in Afganistan.
now because the ISI and PA decided to double cross the US, Drones are flying day and night over PAKISTAN shooting down terrorist and in the process innocent civilians get messed up.

Afghan Taliban, maybe yes but Al Qaeda? big no no no terrorist was airlifted from Kundus, had that happened, the drones would have been flying over Pindi and Islamabad. please dont fall prey to sensational journalism.

double cross by the way is on both sides. Americans are sympathetic to both BLA and TTP
American drones fly over Pakistan because it is a stronger party, only makes it automatically right because might is right.

 

[VCheng]

.........
double cross by the way is on both sides. Americans are sympathetic to both BLA and TTP
American drones fly over Pakistan because it is a stronger party, only makes it automatically right because might is right.

It is not a matter of double crossing, but that is the very nature of covert operations. After all, it is not children who are working for both sides. For either side to pretend otherwise is simply laughable. What matters are end results that serve national interests.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

It doesn't need to. The U.S. publicly says it employs drone strikes in self-defense. That's covered under the Charter so that's enough. No additional supporting resolutions are necessary.

And Pakistan has publicly stated that it has offered to:

1. Conduct drone strikes based on US & Pak Intel
2. Conduct joint drone strikes based on US & Pak Intel
3. Conduct PAF Airstrikes based on US & Pak Intel

In the presence of these alternatives offered by Pakistan, the US argument of 'self defence in the face of Pakistan's unwillingness to act' has absolutely no validity.

And yes, the US does need additional supporting resolutions since the current argument you are making would allow any Rogue State to unilaterally launch hostilities under the guise of 'self defence/fighting terrorism', when that might not be the case. Such actions by Rogue nations (such as the US currently) are precisely why the UN Charter calls on any State claiming to act in 'Self Defence' to immediately declare any such actions in the UN, which the US has not done, which in turn means the US military actions in Pakistan carried out in the guise of 'Self Defence/fighting terrorism' are illegal under international law.

Of course, if Pakistan wanted to proclaim your position all it would have to do is speak up as it currently has a SC seat. I imagine the U.S. representative would then simply repeat what has already been said publicly but to an even larger audience. Pakistan hasn't done that, probably because it's just too embarrassing.

Pakistan has not done so out of a desire by the leadership to not escalate the confrontation with the US, the same reason Pakistan has chosen to not shoot down US drones, and instead diplomatically engage with the US to find a mutually acceptable solution to the disagreements between them - unfortunately, US dealings with Pakistan are reflective of Imperial Hubris, rather than any desire to cooperate and find mutually acceptable solutions.

A question: Could these be sourced from the NATO containers that allegedly went missing in Pakistan per a story several months ago? After all, the bara bazars are full of winter jackets and night visions goggles, are they not?

I thought weapons and sensitive military equipment (the NVG's etc., not the jackets) was shipped by air, not through the land routes.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

thats true, I realised that true also pointed out by Orient. but there is always a chance of what is stated and declared and what actually is in the containers and there is always a chance that it finds it self in the wrong hands or right hands (depending on differing PoV).

 

[VCheng]

............

I thought weapons and sensitive military equipment (the NVG's etc., not the jackets) was shipped by air, not through the land routes.

thats true, I realised that true also pointed out by Orient. but there is always a chance of what is stated and declared and what actually is in the containers and there is always a chance that it finds it self in the wrong hands or right hands (depending on differing PoV).

Cross border smuggling has been an age-old tradition in that region, as has been widespread weaponry. Heck, one can even buy a copy of an anti-aircraft gun in Darra. What problems would anyone face getting any type of bullets they can pay for?

What I find tragic is the need to blame a foreign hand so easily without lamenting the total lack of law and order or governmental authority in those areas, which is where the blame really belongs.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

What I find tragic is the need to blame a foreign hand so easily without lamenting the total lack of law and order or governmental authority in those areas, which is where the blame really belongs.

very tragic indeed specially when that foreign hand belongs to a supposed ally who brought us in this WoT and has resulted in the loss of 32000 Pakistanis.

the tragedy is multidimensional, its not just the lack of our writ in the tribal areas, its the undercover triple and dealing of USA as well. if Haqqanis are Pakistan's good taliban then TTP are Americas "VERY GOOD" Taliban. recently and more openly both are doing the same thing.
killing Pakistani civilians and soldiers on regular bases.

tragic indeed.

 

[VCheng]

...................
the tragedy is multidimensional..........................

I can agree with you that there are many causes of this tragedy, and also that Pakistan is paying a high price for it, although not the order of the causes or that Pakistan is the only nation suffering.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As a Ranger my primary job was capturing or killing the leaders of Al Qaeda and the Taliban. We would go out at 2 am, surround a house or complex, kick in the doors, arrest or kill the people we found. Most of the time the houses we raided were considered “hot”, meaning that we could shoot anyone inside. It didn't matter if they were women or children, they were in that house so we considered them to be helping the terrorists. The problem was that 9 out of 10 times we found the wrong people in the house.

From War to Resistance: Afghanistan Veteran Explains Why He plans to Return His Medals to NATO's Generals | Iraq Veterans Against the War

 

[ashokdeiva]

Afghan Taliban, maybe yes but Al Qaeda? big no no no terrorist was airlifted from Kundus, had that happened, the drones would have been flying over Pindi and Islamabad. please dont fall prey to sensational journalism.

double cross by the way is on both sides. Americans are sympathetic to both BLA and TTP
American drones fly over Pakistan because it is a stronger party, only makes it automatically right because might is right.

Thanks for the post mate, more the discussion and more the probing we get the real picture of grond details, if you have a link to any authentic source for this, I'll be happy to know more. I know this is a matter related to INTELIGENCE agencies and there will not be much details in the public domain yet if you find anything relevant to this issue that tells the tales as it has happend will be a great source of knowledge

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Jon Turner
Jon Turner went to Iraq with an Arabic phrase tattooed on his wrist. It says ‘**** you.’ “I got that because it was my choking hand. Anytime I felt the need to take out aggression, I would go ahead and use it.” But in his video testimony, and through the use of video and photographs from his tour, Turner recounts the mistakes that he made. That everybody in Iraq made. “On April 18, 2006, I had my first confirmed kill. This man was innocent,” he says. In case of such mistakes, the company carried Iraqi weapons to drop, Turner recalls. They instigated fights and sprayed bullets like sugar.


Jason Lemieux
In Iraq, the rules of engagement are being loosely defined and broadly enforced at the expense of the Iraqi people, says Jason Lemieux. "Anyone who tells you different is either a liar or a fool." When he got to Baghdad, he says he was explicitly instructed by his commanders that he could shoot anyone who made him uncomfortable and refused to move when he ordered them to do so. "Better them than us," was the prevailing philosophy, he says, and everyone on the street was considered an enemy combatant who could be killed.


Jason Washburn
Jason Washburn’s unit was told to shoot anyone digging near the side of the road because they might be planting a bomb. They carried spare weapons and shovels in their vehicles. If they killed an innocent Iraqi, they could throw a shovel on the corpse and say the person had been digging. At one point, Washburn’s commander called the unit together to praise Marines for accurate shooting, his pride apparently undiminished by the fact that the victim was not an insurgent but the local mayor.


Sergio Kochergin
As the casualties grew in Sergio Kochergin's platoon, the rules of engagement eroded. After seeing their friends blown up, "We were angry," he says, "we just wanted to do our job and come back." At one point, that meant that an Iraqi carrying a heavy bag and a shovel was at risk of being shot. Within months, Kochergin says that the rules of engagement were left entirely up to he and his fellow soldiers. "I want to apologize to all the people in Iraq," says a shaken Kochergin.


Vincent Emanuele
Marine Corps Rifleman Vincent Emanuele was deployed to an Iraqi village, near the border with Syria, in August 2004. During his eight months there, he witnessed and participated in: the aimless shooting at Iraqi vehicles; the random firing of rifles and mortars into the village rather than at specific targets; the physical abuse of Iraqi prisoners and the driving of prisoners out into the desert where they were abandoned; and the disrespectful handling of the Iraqi dead. And in his testimony, Rifleman Vincent Emanuel repeatedly said: “These were not isolated incidents.”

Iraq Veterans Against the War | You are not alone

===

As the unprovoked murder of 24 Pakistani troops and the countless massacres of innocent Afghans and Pakistanis in air-strikes and raids show, these attitudes are by no means 'isolated', nor have these attitudes shown any sign of changing.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

it isn't illegal for the U.S. to strike at terrorists without the permission of the government that tolerates them; in such a case sovereignty doesn't apply

Have you ever thought that the USA is viewed as a terrorist by Pakistan? How about we start a war with you then?

 

[VCheng]

.......... How about we start a war with you then?

How about you think long and hard before doing that?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Have you ever thought that the USA is viewed as a terrorist by Pakistan? How about we start a war with you then?

His (and the Obama Administration's) justifications are hollow - the various failings of these arguments have been pointed out time and time again, and the best retort these people can come up with is that 'well, no one is listening to you'.

Legally speaking, the US is clearly in violation of the UN Charter and international law, for reasons provided earlier and in other threads.