US trying to sell the F-35 to India

[Nirvana]

No F-35 For IAF Please

 

[OrionHunter]

The best way for India to win a war against Pakistan is for the US of A to give the F-35s to the PAF!

 

[OrionHunter]

the lockheed says that f-35 will cost 70 million without engines to US airforce.

Yep! Clinton offered the F-35 to India for $60 million, but:
Without engines
Without avionics
Without wings
Without the cockpit
Without the undercarriage.

What you'll be getting are the tail fins minus the paint! Jeeez!

 

[JayAtl]

First apologies for starting a new thread about this and hope you guys would not mind.

- But really the only things I read here is full of “country specific" objections honestly vs. What’s best for India- that I had to start a thread based on Pro's vs. cons' ( wish the guys like Sancho can comment about it)

My bone of contention is really Russian quality. That’s what it boils down to. Yes, I know the F35 B aircraft not A, is having some issues. I get that...

My issue is with PAK -FA that makes me favor F35: You know that the weapons package and EW suite is far superior from the west. so unless you get or create a JSF like program that allows you to get those packages integrated into PAK-FA - is the aircraft really top notch?


You know - lord knows, that there are supply chain issues with Russian products, over lifetime; it costs more and just shoddy products from them. Look at your, India’s, purchase of smirch rockets... only what 5 years ago and it has serious issues with Russian quality. and then look at delays from anything from russia.

For me F35 is a no-brainer, allow me to preface it by saying knowing American and European technology will win in the end and given track history, is a superb 5th gen aircraft on hand by 2015 instead of 2020 ( come on have Russians ever delivered anything on time?).

Or perhaps I should ask, what if, hypothetical example… Say your enemy was offered this aircraft. would you be A-Okay and rest your laurel on the PAK-FA?

Now, what I like about US offering – is to be part of the JSF program. IF and that’s a good “ If” india can take advantage of the crisis in Europe and zeal of Americans to be on your good side and extrapolate some additional “ extras” like a TOT on most of it, allow India to produce it in India …. I don’t get why not drop Pak_FA.

 

[dac cong]

JayAlt:

[If] India buying F35 then its can joint fight with NATO and also more chances for India to get alternative plans when something get rumors. Like I said, F35 is pricey but its built for the "option".

[If] India buy T50 then India enemies still be able to get T50 due to its way cheaper than F35 and something realy happend India can not joint fight with NATO if its need to get backup from the alternative route.

 

[ali.jishan786]

Dude........now i am really Piised off with that*********F-35********STUFFFFFFFF

 

[ali.jishan786]

JayAlt:

[If] India buying F35 then its can joint fight with NATO and also more chances for India to get alternative plans when something get rumors. Like I said, F35 is pricey but its built for the "option".

[If] India buy T50 then India enemies still be able to get T50 due to its way cheaper than F35 and something realy happend India can not joint fight with NATO if its need to get backup from the alternative route.

r u really Out of ur mind
India is partner in PAK FA project.......without indian permision russians even can't sell a single part of Pak fa to any country....
and INDIA ALSO GETS HALF PROFIT FOR EVERY SINGLE SELL OF PAK FA TO NATIONS......

 

[dac cong]

Dude........now i am really Piised off with that*********F-35********STUFFFFFFFF

Oh well, sometimes it hurts the pocket but it will gains for the future. Think this way "Why would Poland, Sec etc get rids of their old USSR stuffs when they are joined to NATO?" Do they realy hurt their pockets for spending? I think they do.

More than that, India can use both F35 and T50 whichever best against India enemies in the future.

 

[JayAtl]

JayAlt:

[If] India buying F35 then its can joint fight with NATO and also more chances for India to get alternative plans when something get rumors. Like I said, F35 is pricey but its built for the "option".

[If] India buy T50 then India enemies still be able to get T50 due to its way cheaper than F35 and something realy happend India can not joint fight with NATO if its need to get backup from the alternative route.

Nato or not. I look at it from the point of view that you got a great airframe and engine but weapons package and EW suit is lacking... you get to be part of " no supply chain issues", best next gen tech added in future (let’s face it BVR and AESA were given years in advance to certain NATO countries before Russian even attempted to make one ( AESA), let alone they don't have one for aircrafts ready still ).

Why deal with an aircraft from Russia which still too much in the infancy stage and does not give you best all around. yeah it is much better in being maneuverable but who is getting into dogfights with Awacs, AESA, BVR ?


maybe too simpistic view.

 

[dac cong]

r u really Out of ur mind
India is partner in PAK FA project.......without indian permision russians even can't sell a single part of Pak fa to any country....
and INDIA ALSO GETS HALF PROFIT FOR EVERY SINGLE SELL OF PAK FA TO NATIONS......

I know and I agree. Just because the other half is not belong to you so you have to have the alternative plan.

 

[dac cong]

Nato or not. I look at it from the point of view that you got a great airframe and engine but weapons package and EW suit is lacking... you get to be part of " no supply chain issues", best next gen tech added in future (let’s face it BVR and AESA were given years in advance to certain NATO countries before Russian even attempted to make one ( AESA), let alone they don't have one for aircrafts ready still ).

Why deal with an aircraft from Russia which still too much in the infancy stage and does not give you best all around. yeah it is much better in being maneuverable but who is getting into dogfights with Awacs, AESA, BVR ?


maybe too simpistic view.

Why don't you think this way: "You can get some F-35 learn new technologies and create for your own product which is you also have in exchange technologies from Russia."

That's what I think but I could be wrong. If I have that option, I will use both best technologies for my own good in the future.

 

[indianspetsnaz]

too many F-35 threads nowadays Jay i mean to disrespect brother but the reasons why India should not go for F-35 were already mentioned here on livefist

Livefist: COLUMN | F-35: Should India Really Ride The Lightning?

we will need a replacement for Jaguars and Mirage2K MK2 fighters and that will hopefully be AMCA should delays not happen however if AMCA proves to be a failure then we should go for F-35 in the future which is better because the technology would have matured and we would see from how other nations cope with the F-35 another reason why i do not like the F-35 is that the Americans give watered down versions of there best technology we would practically be getting Excalibur locked in its sheath with Uncle sam holding the key to unlocking it as we have seen with the Pakistanis it is not good to buy from the USA because in times of strategic crisis they will sanction you.

why settle for Excalibur locked in its sheath when the Russians are basically giving us there most advanced fighter technology and allowing us to take the design and manufacture it in India!!!! the FGFA will not have cutting edge technology rather bleeding edge technology! Russia will not hesitate to transfer technology compared to the US

 

[Zabaniyah]

First apologies for starting a new thread about this and hope you guys would not mind.

- But really the only things I read here is full of “country specific" objections honestly vs. What’s best for India- that I had to start a thread based on Pro's vs. cons' ( wish the guys like Sancho can comment about it)

My bone of contention is really Russian quality. That’s what it boils down to. Yes, I know the F35 B aircraft not A, is having some issues. I get that...

My issue is with PAK -FA that makes me favor F35: You know that the weapons package and EW suite is far superior from the west. so unless you get or create a JSF like program that allows you to get those packages integrated into PAK-FA - is the aircraft really top notch?

The F-35 export variants will have downgraded avionics.

You know - lord knows, that there are supply chain issues with Russian products, over lifetime; it costs more and just shoddy products from them. Look at your, India’s, purchase of smirch rockets... only what 5 years ago and it has serious issues with Russian quality. and then look at delays from anything from russia.

This is a popular issue. Although it has improved, there's still more room for improvement. India is more or less self-sufficient with it's Flankers since they are licensed produced.

For me F35 is a no-brainer, allow me to preface it by saying knowing American and European technology will win in the end and given track history, is a superb 5th gen aircraft on hand by 2015 instead of 2020 ( come on have Russians ever delivered anything on time?).

And a money swallowing machine at that. It costs way too much.

Or perhaps I should ask, what if, hypothetical example… Say your enemy was offered this aircraft. would you be A-Okay and rest your laurel on the PAK-FA?

mmm...interesting!

If you are going to offer it to some US-unfriendly country, expect some **** to hit the fan

Now, what I like about US offering – is to be part of the JSF program. IF and that’s a good “ If” india can take advantage of the crisis in Europe and zeal of Americans to be on your good side and extrapolate some additional “ extras” like a TOT on most of it, allow India to produce it in India …. I don’t get why not drop Pak_FA.

It's either you are insane, or you are not Indian.

A lot of interests are placed in the FGFA program and literally worth billions. It's a long-term issue, not some short-term one.

And I think you failed to notice that the Russian and the Indian one are two completely different programs.

The Americans will not offer any or at best very limited ToT options to India. End of story.

India was in fact initially offered to join the JSF program (ironic since it was a Cold War foe). They refused in order to focus on the FGFA program, and not conflict with it.

 

[ali.jishan786]

Nato or not. I look at it from the point of view that you got a great airframe and engine but weapons package and EW suit is lacking... you get to be part of " no supply chain issues", best next gen tech added in future (let’s face it BVR and AESA were given years in advance to certain NATO countries before Russian even attempted to make one ( AESA), let alone they don't have one for aircrafts ready still ).

Why deal with an aircraft from Russia which still too much in the infancy stage and does not give you best all around. yeah it is much better in being maneuverable but who is getting into dogfights with Awacs, AESA, BVR ?


maybe too simpistic view.

if i was not not wrong,,,russians already had developed Phazotron Zhuk AE/ASE Assessing (Russia's First Fighter AESA) which presently serves for mig-35

---------- Post added at 12:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

Why don't you think this way: "You can get some F-35 learn new technologies and create for your own product which is you also have in exchange technologies from Russia."

That's what I think but I could be wrong. If I have that option, I will use both best technologies for my own good in the future.

sorry.......reverse engineering is not our speciality.................our neighbours are more prone towards reverse engineering.......

 

[Kazhugu]

the day usa gives the source code for their radar and not requires us to sign their stupid agreements we can think about it...till them adios amigos...