US to furnish new wish list after F-16s deal: State Dept

[ssethii]

No, India can use the issue of SCS in our favour.

what leverage India has in terms of SCS?

 

[volatile]

India should put serious effort to sort out our problem with China....cannot trust USA

Very wise thoughts ,Imagine India ,Pak ,China ,Russia prospering together .For India it will be difficult now since US wants India badly to stand up against China .In the end China will be weak and easy for USA to beat .Similarly US will never ditch Pak just bcas it needed Pak in the end to take care of India after India done with China so in the end its a long game and all of us are puppet .India ditch US and join this strong group of 4

 

[Mrc]

I think best thing wud b to raise your middle fingers in negotiations and buy j 10 c

 

[Fracker]

Very wise thoughts ,Imagine India ,Pak ,China ,Russia prospering together .For India it will be difficult now since US wants India badly to stand up against China .In the end China will be weak and easy for USA to beat .Similarly US will never ditch Pak just bcas it needed Pak in the end to take care of India after India done with China so in the end its a long game and all of us are puppet .India ditch US and join this strong group of 4

I don't think GeoPolitics works in this manner. Here no one is friend or foe. Neither USA wants to completely dissolve China all together nor they can take their Eye away from India to make bigger than what can't be contained.They only want to be on the top and keep rest messing up with each other.

As far Pakistan concern, they only sees us as non actor of the geopolitics. Thanks to our leadership who has made wrong name for Pakistan. Their Begging attitude has made us too much dependent on all. And our progress is way too weak because of this attitude.We are too short sited to become a threat to anyone.

In 2005 we got Wheat for our payment instead of F-16. I hope, It shouldn't happen same thing to our this deal. USA is way too unreliable.

 

[kadamba-warrior]

India should put serious effort to sort out our problem with China....cannot trust USA

Mate, you must be assuming that China also really intends to sort out its border problems with India!

The real problem with China, when it comes to India, is not geographical but economical. The last thing China wants is a stable and economically stronger India that will inevitably compete for the same resources and markets of the world. China wants to keep the "border" pot boiling as long as possible so that India is forced to commit her meager resources and focus on her vast borders with China and away from her own economic development.

And this will not stop until India falls apart economically (and subsequently as a nation) or settles the border in a way which is extremely and unrealistically in China's favor!

 

[Desertfalcon]

Perhaps you should stop carrot and stick approach other wise US will remain all alone ,by the way even UK has realized the new World Order so our dribbles are based on our sentiments (We are not disposable tissue paper box you use it and throw it next time you need it use again and again .In the end there is nothing common between US and selfish gold digger ladies both ditch after there needs are fullfilled

Gee, I had no idea it upset you to have me agree with you. Perhaps I will know better than do that next time.

US will never ditch Pak

Of course we would. If Mr. Trump is elected for example, he has already repeatedly said that Pakistan will be put from America's allied list to being considered an enemy state. Americans have become absolutely sick and tired of trying to be allies or conduct arms sales with countries that we supposedly share strategic interest with...who hate us. Their attitude, and Trump's, is, "They don't like us? F**ck 'em! Let them go to the dogs!" There is no shortage of Pakistanis on this board for certain, who are reflective of the attitudes that cause the American people to feel that way.

 

[New World]

I personally desire this deal to die, our alliance (or whatever is left of it) with the US will die with it and Pakistanis should celebrate it. Pakistan needs to get its act together, there's no need to service anyone's 'wishlists'.

we cannot afford to lose US completely, remember US is most advance and powerful country from last 6 decades and it will be powerful and advance in next few decades..

US control the whole western world and we need them very badly for trade and investment..

 

[Blue Marlin]

Gee, I had no idea it upset you to have me agree with you. Perhaps I will know better than do that next time.


Of course we would. If Mr. Trump is elected for example, he has already repeatedly said that Pakistan will be put from America's allied list to being considered an enemy state. Americans have become absolutely sick and tired of trying to be allies or conduct arms sales with countries that we supposedly share strategic interest with...who hate us. Their attitude, and Trump's, is, "They don't like us? F**ck 'em! Let them go to the dogs!" There is no shortage of Pakistanis on this board for certain, who are reflective of the attitudes that cause the American people to feel that way.

i have a weird feeling hillary will win. donald trump? no way!! if he does then i will turn to the united states politics for my entertainment.and i wonder how long will it take for him to re-name the white house to trump's house and airforce one to trumpforce one.

 

[Desertfalcon]

i have a weird feeling hillary will win. donald trump? no way!! if he does then i will turn to the united states politics for my entertainment.and i wonder how long will it take for him to re-name the white house to trump's house and airforce one to trumpforce one.

I agree. I think he's a jackass, but then, I'm one of those who kept saying that it was only a matter of time before he self-destructed and yet, here he is, about to become the Republican Party nominee for president. He's tapped into a lot of anger out there.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I agree. I think he's a jackass, but then, I'm one of those who kept saying that it was only a matter of time before he self-destructed and yet, here he is, about to become the Republican Party nominee for president. He's tapped into a lot of anger out there.

the naughty side of me wants him to become presidant, just for the sheer entertainment and it saves me paying for comedy central which is convienant too.

 

[Indika]

For India it will be difficult now since US wants India badly to stand up against China .In the end China will be weak and easy for USA to beat .Similarly US will never ditch Pak just bcas it needed Pak in the end to take care of India after India done with China so in the end its a long game and all of us are puppet .India ditch US and join this strong group of 4

India & China know that very well. US will simply continue its economic prosperity by making others fight. If two countries prosper then they have to find some other countries for cheap goods & labour not to mention market for all the over priced products.

 

[cloud4000]

For all its worth, unlike other Indian posters in PDF, I wholeheartedly support this deal.
US realises the need to engage pakistan to prevent it from moving completely into chinese camp, which WILL happen if they become too dependent on chinese for their military needs.

This deal will act as a hook to reel in the catch later and keep PAF dependent on american hardware. Good for us anyhow you look at this.

Pakistan is deep within China's camp. Doesn't matter what US gives to Pakistan, it will not change reality. Both US and Pakistan know this. The relationship is transactional, after all. Both sides will come to some agreement. Let's see what the joint statement will be after Pakistan and US complete their strategic dialogue.

As for Pakistan being dependent on US hardware, this is totally on them. The history of Pakistan acquisition of F-16s have been a sordid one from day one till today. Even with all the obstacles put in its way, Pakistan still insists on acquiring these birds. Even with risks of sanctions, cancellations, and boycotts, Pakistan still wants them. This is the kind of dependency you expect from a drug addict.

 

[Zee-shaun]

What can a small batch of 8 F-16's do? Back in the late seventies we declined US' offer to induct 110 Corsair brand new A-7 FGA in trade for our nuclear prigram
Even if today a 100 brand new F-16's were offered, we would not trade off our nuclear program which is the only trump card we have left against our enemies and adversaries.

They want to talk renewd wishlist, let them come and have ours ready too:

1- No aid, more trade
2- Security for sanction free supply of spares via Turkey (end user waiver). In that case everything we buy fron the States comes via Turkey.
3- Delink WoT from FMS to Pakistan. We are a sovereign country with our own defence requirements beyond WoT.
4- A civil nuclear agreement.
5- Curb on India/Afghan cross border terrorism.

These F-16's are not totally free of charge, they are to be financed from CFS which the US ow's us for fighting THEIR WoT. A $699 million deal does not make up for the almost $100 billion loss we have suffered by joining their WoT (at gunpoint).

Another point is that they want us to buy these birds, we didn't ask for them which puts us in a better position today because we have alternatives.

Third and most important point not to be miased is that the delivery will take at least 3 years when there will be a new govt in the USA. We need guaranties that the deal will not be scrutinized or sabotaged by the new POTUS.

 

[cloud4000]

1- No aid, more trade
2- Security for sanction free supply of spares via Turkey (end user waiver). In that case everything we buy fron the States comes via Turkey.
3- Delink WoT from FMS to Pakistan. We are a sovereign country with our own defence requirements beyond WoT.
4- A civil nuclear agreement.
5- Curb on India/Afghan cross border terrorism.

1. Doable. Both sides want this.
2. Doesn't make sense. How is receiving US-manufactured parts via Turkey not going to be sanction proof?
3. Good luck on this. US will only sell weapons to Pakistan that are related to WoT and counter-insurgency.
4. Unless Pakistan is willing to compromise on tactical nukes or its nuclear weapons program, no chance
5. What does US have to do with cross border terrorism?

These F-16's are not totally free of charge, they are to be financed from CFS which the US ow's us for fighting THEIR WoT. A $699 million deal does not make up for the almost $100 billion loss we have suffered by joining their WoT (at gunpoint).

Pakistan is paying about 40% and US 60% for these eight F-16s. The rest is just accounting.

Another point is that they want us to buy these birds, we didn't ask for them which puts us in a better position today because we have alternatives.

No, Pakistan wanted these 8 F-16s and PAF Air Marshall made it clear he wants more of them. In addition, these eight were an option on the original order made in 2008. Pakistan has a right to acquire 10 more, but this will come in the future.

Third and most important point not to be miased is that the delivery will take at least 3 years when there will be a new govt in the USA. We need guaranties that the deal will not be scrutinized or sabotaged by the new POTUS.

There are no guarantees in such things. Anything can happen -- and has happened -- as far as Pakistan-US relations are concerned. I'd worry more about US Congress than POTUS.

 

[Indika]

So, what would America's 'wish list' to Pakistan be? A couple could be....

1. Do more against the Haqqanis. (I've heard this a zillion times before!)
2. Put a lid on the nuke arsenal.
3. Do more for the safety of nukes so they don't fall into Jihadi hands.
4. Keep the gates at Torkham and Chaman open forever for the logistics support for their troops in Afghanistan. (As we know there will be a permanent American presence in Afghanistan till the cows come home).
5. Provide more protection for the convoys carrying stores for American troops while moving within Pakistan territory.

I can't think of anything else!

US Request Version: 2016.00020
Pak Result Version: 1990.0001
Bribing never works it only perpetuates the issue.