US to cut off aid to Palestinian, veto Palestinian recognition in UN

[EjazR]

Some Indians are confused about what India's position is on Palestine. Maybe they feel more Israeli than Indian.

For the record, India recognized Palestine as a separate state in 1987 comprising the areas of West bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. It is India's official policy to support the two state solution in this form as the final settlement of the peace process. Even under the NDA govt., the same policy was reiterated publicly and privately.

If the vote comes to UNSC, India would be reiterating something it has already done and Israel is probably already aware of this.

The point is really simple, Israel has two options: (1) Either stop the occupation of West Bank and Gaza and create the separate state that was agreed by Israel in the 1992 accords and reaffirmed by the Arab League as a basis of bilateral diplomatic recognition.
(2) Give equal voting rights to the people in the occupied territories so at least Israel can finally claim to be a true democracy.

Now at the UN vote, this time around, even countries like UK, Germany and France are leaning towards realizing this ground reality. These countries are pro-Israel. They know that it is in Israel's interests and as a friend of Israel that the occupied territories should be given their freedom so that Israel can reach its full potential and not remain a pariah and under the siege mentality. A true friend of Israel would actually make the Israeli govt. understand this fundamental fact. There was already the pre-run in February on the UNSC resolution that basically declared that settlement expansions in the occupied territories is illegal. The resolution did not call for a boycott of Israel, nor did it question the legitimacy of Israel, it did no say Zionism is racism. Just a statement that is recognized by the UN when it refers to Palestine as Occupied Territories on its records and something the US has itself mentioned time and again.
The resolution was supported by over 120+ countries but it was vetoed in the UNSC 14-1 by the US. India was one of the countries that voted yes.

In fact, people should really read what Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic wrote in FP today. For those who don't know, he is one of the most pro-Israel writers out there constantly defending Israel from all sorts of criticisms left right and center. He is someone no one can call a "self hating jew".

Is Israel Really America's Ally? | Foreign Policy

Netanyahu, to some degree, and to a greater degree his right-wing coalition (including his foreign minister, a man so disreputable he cannot be displayed to the American public) do not seem to understand that Israel, despite its popularity in the United States, is the junior, dependent partner in this relationship. Yes, Israel is in some ways a strategic ally of the United States, and yes, its scientists create all sorts of products valued in America; but it is impossible to argue that America needs Israel more than Israel needs America. So when a U.S. president who is obviously pro-Israel (no U.S. president has worked more assiduously to maintain Israel's "qualitative military edge" than has Barack Obama) believes it important to make progress on the creation of a Palestinian state, it is best for Israel to take him seriously. This the Netanyahu government has not yet done.

Israel may one day soon find itself with fewer friends in America -- in particular on the coasts and among elites -- than it previously had. The Arab revolts have inspired many Americans who will soon look at the West Bank and see unfree Arabs. Then they will look at who is suppressing these Arabs and see Israel; and then they will become confused by this, because they have heard many times that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East.

Israel is popular in the United States in part because Americans believe, to borrow the most famous cliché in Middle East policymaking, that the Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. But more and more Americans believe that it is Israel that is missing opportunities to reach a compromise with the Palestinians. If, over time, Israel becomes unrecognizable to Americans, it will lose. Israeli leaders believe it would be impossible for Israel to lose the affection of America. They are wrong.

Solomon2, I hope you do respond to this post too.

 

[Solomon2]

^^^^^
Ejaz, you don't mention anything about the obligations of the P.A. in the 1992 accords, nor what their responsibilities should be today. Doesn't it concern you that your concerns are so one-sided?

 

[EjazR]

^^^^^
Ejaz, you don't mention anything about the obligations of the P.A. in the 1992 accords, nor what their responsibilities should be today. Doesn't it concern you that your concerns are so one-sided?

If you read my post, you would have noticed that I expressed concerned for the future of Israel as a Jewish majority state as well.

The question is do you (your personally as well as the Israeli govt.) still support the two state solution? Is it still on the table? Keeping in mind that the Arab league - all 22 Arab states including Syria have supported the solution and that in return they will recognize Israel and establish trade and diplomatic relations with it.

After all when peace deals are made, it is political will NOT public opinion that matters. Egypt and Jordan made peace deals with Israel despite public opinion. Palestine and Israel can do it too.

Do keep in mind that Israel has at different times praised PA for rounding up and curtailing militants. Since 1995 infact: Israel Praises Palestinian Crackdown on Militants : Gaza Strip: - Los Angeles Times.

And recent wikileaks documents and the Palestine negotiation papers have shown how far PA was willing to negotiate for an end state.

So basically, the question that remains again is do you still support the two state solution? As Ehud Olmert the former PM said, time is running out if the two state solution collapses- say by US vetoing the same in the UN, what then?

 

[Solomon2]

The question is do you (your personally as well as the Israeli govt.) still support the two state solution? Is it still on the table? Keeping in mind that the Arab league - all 22 Arab states including Syria have supported the solution and that in return they will recognize Israel -

I don't think that is the current question. The current question is whether to recognize a new Arab state which pledges to be a belligerent and not recognize Israel's right to exist. The 1992 Oslo Accords promised neither statehood to the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza and contain the explicit promise that Arabs will refrain from belligerency.

 

[Mosamania]

I don't think that is the current question. The current question is whether to recognize a new Arab state which pledges to be a belligerent and not recognize Israel's right to exist. The 1992 Oslo Accords promised neither statehood to the Arabs of the West Bank and Gaza and contain the explicit promise that Arabs will refrain from belligerency.

The Arab washed their hands of being the ones to refuse peace in 2002 something even Israel is keeping under wraps as hard as it can. We offered our terms and Israel did not even bother to negotiate them. And I will put my favorite quote until next september here as a reminder of what I am talking about:
Saudi foriegn minister Turki bin Faisal :
The time has come for Palestinians to bypass the United States and Israel and to seek direct international endorsement of statehood at the United Nations. They will be fully supported in doing so by Saudi Arabia, other Arab nations and the vast majority of the international community — all those who favor a just outcome to this stalemate and a stable Middle East.

American leaders have long called Israel an 'indispensable' ally. They will soon learn that there are other players in the region — not least the Arab street — who are as, if not more, 'indispensable.' The game of favoritism toward Israel has not proven wise for Washington, and soon it will be shown to be an even greater folly."

 

[DelhiDareDevil]

israel is a great nation, its amazing how they are getting bigger while in a muslim area.

 

[Solomon2]

The Arab washed their hands of being the ones to refuse peace in 2002 -

This initiative was led by the Saudi King, not the Arabs of Palestine. It does have constructive elements in it. However, its insistence that the "just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees" should rely on the situation that was current for the Arab refugees in 1948 is incomplete, to say the least. For example, the Arab states expelled hundreds of thousands of Jews from their lands in 1948, Jews who had lived there for many generations and had no place to go other than Israel. These Jews and their descendants have not been invited back. The refusal of the Arab initiative to acknowledge that the Jews of Israel, too, have the right to a "just solution" is its greatest flaw.

 

[Mosamania]

This initiative was led by the Saudi King, not the Arabs of Palestine. It does have constructive elements in it. However, its insistence that the "just solution to the problem of Palestinian refugees" should rely on the situation that was current for the Arab refugees in 1948 is incomplete, to say the least. For example, the Arab states expelled hundreds of thousands of Jews from their lands in 1948, Jews who had lived there for many generations and had no place to go other than Israel. These Jews and their descendants have not been invited back. The refusal of the Arab initiative to acknowledge that the Jews of Israel, too, have the right to a "just solution" is its greatest flaw.

Then here is a just solution for you. All the jews who got out of their homes who want to come will come back, And all the Palastenians who lost their homes and want to go back will come back. Let Israel put that on the table of the treaty they refused to even negotiate.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Shameful indeed, but it comes as little to no surprise.....Obama is a very weak leader, what can he do?


interestingly enough, a lot of patriotic Americans (civilians) still want answers as to why israel napalm bombed the USS Liberty some decades back.

several American uniformed personnel fell victim to this aggressive act.....


strange world

 

[EjazR]

@Solomon2
I beg to differ. I think majority of the people around the world including the govt. believe that the two state solution is the best way to achieve peace in the region. The blame was on the Arabs for not accepting the two state solution until 2000. When King Abdullah finalized the two state peace plan and finally formally presented it in 2001, there was great hope that this would the final moment. President Bush also initially supported it but backtracked later.

Then you had the Palestine Papers leaked among the wikileakmania where the Palestinians had offered a symbolic return of refugees (about 15000 over 5 years); demilitarised Palestine; most of the settlements and East Jerusalem except the Muslim quarter there and even this offer was rejected by Israel.

So people like me, who support the idea that Israel has a right to exist as a separate state in the Jewish majority areas as well as having a separate state for the Palestinians are surprised and wonder what more does Israel want?

Or does Israel really believe in a two state solution anymore? And I believe many people are starting to ask this same question. Atleast, do you personally thing this is still a viable solution now? And with what that would mean about settlements and their legal status?

israel is a great nation, its amazing how they are getting bigger while in a muslim area.

What does this post have anything to do with Palestine being recognized as an independent state? Its an Israeli Arab (both Muslim and Christian arabs) issue first of all.

 

[bularab]

This is the New World Order guys, hey, Solomon2, if I come with a gun in one hand threatening you that if you don't leave your home, I'll kill your children, how you will react? Will you smash me down to the ground or left your home? That's what we're talking about Palestine. Israel is invader, which tries to enforce their will over all Muslim countries. Really, if USA veto Palestinian recognition, I'll pray for the Taliban. Such a stupid decision will ruin all their links with Muslim countries and that would be their end, since USA gets oil mainly from Iraq, Saudi Arabia..

Recognition for Palestine within the two-states-solution. Everything else is bullshit.

 

[EjazR]

^^^^Actually US gets its oil from Canada followed by Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Mexico and Nigeria. Iraq has hardly started pumping out any oil

But what is stupid is what would you pray to the Taliban for? Taliban are helping Muslims? They kill more innocent civilians than the NATO forces in Iraq. If you cared about muslims, you would praying that the Taliban are finished as soon as possible.

 

[bularab]

Aah, don't tell me USA intervened in Iraq for the democracy. Iraq is full of oil, Afghanistan is full of drugs / opium. Libya also have oil.

They recognized Kosovo, but they won't recognize Palestine? Oh, sorry, Kosovo got oil, Palestine does not.

 

[Mosamania]

If the US bow down to Israel and vetos the Palastenian country. It will be the dawn of a new middle east , And might be the begging of WW3. If it does not there maybe some hope still left for peace.

 

[bularab]

Ehud Olmert "The only solution is to maximize the number of Jews and minimize the number of Palestinians"

I really hope one day a rocket will fall on his house. What an anti-human statement