‘US threatened to attack Swat Taliban if Pakistan failed to act’

[shravan]

If Chinese stop loaning you money and we Immigrants leave your country, what will happen to you lazy obese fat ***** isn’t very difficult to predict.

SIR,

Can you tell me what will happen.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

The New York Times has a terrific article up explaining the ‘long road to chaos in Pakistan.’ The piece is written by Dexter Filkins, who has covered the Afghanistan and Iraq wars for the newspaper and is the author of “The Forever War.”

In short, it is a man who knows what he is talking about.

Although we often spend time these days to the current situation in Pakistan, commentators seldom take the time to point out how the country got here (fighting against the Taliban, under pressure by the U.S., and now Pakistan and the U.S. exchanging fire at the Afghan-Pakistan border) in the first place.

According to Filkins it all started a decade ago or so. Pakistan’s leaders, Filkins writes, ‘began nurturing the Taliban and their brethren to help advance the country’s regional interests.’ The Taliban and Al Qaeda ‘owe their survival — and much of their present strength — to a succession of Pakistani governments that continues to the present day.’

‘The origins of the present predicament date to 1994, when Pakistan, unnerved by the bloody civil war that had engulfed Afghanistan following the Soviet Union’s departure five years earlier, turned to a group of fierce but moralistic Afghan tribesman who had won a string of victories. They called themselves “the students” — in Arabic and Pashto, the Taliban. Sensing an opportunity, the Pakistani government, led then by Benazir Bhutto, threw its support behind them. Aided by Pakistani money, supplies and military advisers, the Taliban swept across Afghanistan, entering the capital in 1996,’ Filkins explains.

Then in 2001 it was this same group that the U.S. overthrew because it aided Al Qaeda which launched a terrorist attack against the United States resulting in thousands of innocent American victims.

Next Pakistan, then led by Pervez Musharraf, promised the U.S. to work against the Taliban and Al Qaeda, and to try to destroy them. ‘For that, Pakistan was rewarded with nearly $10 billion in American aid. But over the years, something else happened: whatever President Musharraf said in public, the military and intelligence services over which he presided demonstrated every intention of strengthening the Taliban, who fled en masse to the borderlands after their expulsion from Kabul in November 2001.’

Evidence of this ’strengthening’: Islamic schools were not closed, even though Musharraf promised to do so. He did arrest 2,000 militants and extremists, but released them weeks later without explanation. ‘The most glaring example came last July, when operatives of Pakistan’s Inter Services Intelligence, or I.S.I., were said to have helped fighters under Serajuddin Haqqani, a Taliban commander, bomb the Indian Embassy in Kabul. An Indian defense attaché was among 54 people killed, and American officials said there was overwhelming evidence pointing to I.S.I. involvement,’ the American journalist writes.

The main reason for Pakistan’s support for the Taliban, Al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations was and continues to be the ongoing rivalry with India. The two countries despise each other, and have waged war with each other - via proxies or not - for decades. ‘India has allied itself closely with the Afghan government of Hamid Karzai. In 2006, for instance, a senior I.S.I. official told a New York Times reporter that he regarded Mr. Haqqani as an I.S.I. intelligence asset. Mr. Haqqani, an Afghan Pashtun, is one of the Taliban’s most senior commanders battling the Americans. His father, Jalalhuddin, is a longtime associate of Osama bin Laden. The Haqqanis are thought to be overseeing operations from the border territories.’

But then the Taliban turned against its Pakistani masters. The Taliban has goals that go beyond Afghanistan. Afghanistan is merely one of its goals, one of its tools. Its looking beyond Afghan borders to other Islamic countries and then especially Pakistan. ‘A turning point came in the summer of 2007, when Pakistani troops stormed the Red Mosque, where Islamic militants had gathered in the capital. The gun battle killed nearly 100 people. Taliban militants launched a wave of suicide bombings around the country, and Baitullah Mehsud formed Tariq-i-Taliban Pakistan, an umbrella organization of several Taliban groups, and declared war on the Pakistani government. Since then, Taliban militias have expanded their reach beyond the FATA areas to include much of the neighboring Northwest Frontier Province.’

Meanwhile, the U.S. grew increasingly concerned about the Pakistan-Taliban relationship. It tried to put pressure on Islamabad to break with the Taliban and to take military action against it. The Pakistani leadership did indeed order an offensive against militants hiding in the country’s tribal region, but ‘there is abundant evidence suggesting that at least some elements of the army do not want to do that.’

“I would not rule out the possibility that explicit deals were made by the military,” an American military official told Filkins.

After Musharraf resigned and was replaced by others, by civilians, the situation continued to deteriorate. Pakistan stepped up its military offensive, but that only strengthened the position of the Taliban; many fighters were killed, for sure, but public opinion is increasingly turning against Islamabad and the U.S. and in favor of the Muslim extremists. The terrorist attacks taking place in Pakistan so often nowadays are considered to be retaliation for the military offensive against the Taliban. Most Pakistanis do not blame the extremists for the violence but, rather, their own government and the U.S. (which they feel is bullying their government into submission).

Meanwhile, the troubling situation in Pakistan’s tribal region enables the Taliban to launch attacks against Western and Afghan targets in Afghanistan. They use the border with Pakistan to bring money, weapons and men into Afghanistan for battle. The U.S. understands this and has decided to take military action against the Taliban in Pakistan resulting in even more anger among average Pakistanis.

And so the new Pakistani government finds itself between a rock and a hard place. Whatever it does, it’s wrong. The Taliban has become so strong that it cannot be easily destroyed. Additionally, many Pakistanis are sympathetic towards the Taliban and oppose the U.S. The Taliban will not be destroyed by Islamabad, not without American help. But such help would greatly increase the Taliban’s appeal in Pakistan; the more the U.S. gets involved, the more Pakistanis will join the Taliban and fight against both the U.S. and their own government.

It’s a terrible situation… created by the Taliban itself

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

If Americans persuied the talibans into our territory then they will not only get bogged down here but they will also get bogged down in Afghanistan for sure. People hate America more than taliban

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

SIR,

Can you tell me what will happen.

You dont wana know..

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Oh, you know, built schools, wells, houses, universities, etc. Made friends with the locals and driven the Talibunnies from being a Afghan based operation to a Pakistan based one to such an extent the Talibunnies now find it more expedient to view Pakistan as it's current target and take over that country instead.
Interesting thing about the NZ reconstruction force in Bamyan: the Talibunnies have apparently asked the local tribesmen several times for permission to attack the NZ forces, including offering large sums of money. The locals told our troops that they refused permission and reported the Talibunny presence because they just like our people a whole lot better. Probably won't bat 100 for ever, but it's nice to know the locals have our peoples backs, even those dastardly women soldiers

Its the same strategy the Soviet Forces were following infact the only Internatinal Airport built in Afghanistan's capital Kabul was built by the Soviets and they were in alot better position than you guys . But they ended up in a pretty bad position . Sames gona happen to US if it further persuis this war .

Just tell me How much this war has cost US in its international standing.

Things Like Gontanamo, Blind Eye support for the Israeli Massacre ,And a diplomacy relying heavily on Bullying and issuing threats and warnings to weak countries have earned them up in Destructive Image worldwide .

 

[S-2]

America knows it's at war and I'm glad to see that you've determined a difference between "presence" and "control".

The numbers speak less than the incidents themselves. You can see exactly where and what's contested.

"If Chinese stop loaning you money and we Immigrants leave your country, what will happen to you lazy obese fat ***** isn’t very difficult to predict."

So who, again, will be their customers? You?

Didn't say anything about "we". I like immigrants. A lot. I was one, sorta. Both sides were here before 1743. I also lived with one for seven years.

I just don't like you.

May you be downsized.

 

[sparten]

Oh, you know, built schools, wells, houses, universities, etc. Made friends with the locals and driven the Talibunnies from being a Afghan based operation to a Pakistan based one to such an extent the Talibunnies now find it more expedient to view Pakistan as it's current target and take over that country instead.
Interesting thing about the NZ reconstruction force in Bamyan: the Talibunnies have apparently asked the local tribesmen several times for permission to attack the NZ forces, including offering large sums of money. The locals told our troops that they refused permission and reported the Talibunny presence because they just like our people a whole lot better. Probably won't bat 100 for ever, but it's nice to know the locals have our peoples backs, even those dastardly women soldiers

Nice heartwarming stories. All true. All irrelvent.

NATO has conceded more and more ground to the Taliban since 2006, simply put the ISAF has no capability to do much more than defend what it already controls., without a much greater number of troops. In the Bajaur battles most of the AQ reinforcements came from Afghanistan, often from areas "controlled" by NATO. To give an example, more British soldiers died in one Afghan battle in 1800's than the entire British committment to Afghanistan. A couple of companies of New Zealand SAS no matter how brave and skilled are not going to cut it.

 

[parihaka]

Nice heartwarming stories. All true. All irrelvent.

NATO has conceded more and more ground to the Taliban since 2006, simply put the ISAF has no capability to do much more than defend what it already controls., without a much greater number of troops. In the Bajaur battles most of the AQ reinforcements came from Afghanistan, often from areas "controlled" by NATO. To give an example, more British soldiers died in one Afghan battle in 1800's than the entire British committment to Afghanistan. A couple of companies of New Zealand SAS no matter how brave and skilled are not going to cut it.

Quite true. What is needed is a surge along the same lines as Iraq but tasked specifically with securing the borders. It would be nice to see effective strikes against irhabi training bases and HQ's within Waziristan and the NWFP as well but that's an issue for the GoP and ISAF to sort out between them. Being able to shut down the flow of irhabi across the border and closing down the flow of opium out of Afghanistan to limit funding would be of benefit to both countries.
Any assessment on your part as to why the ISAF was opposed to Pakistan fencing and mining the border?

 

[sparten]

Political reasons; the ISAF was convinced by the Afghan Government not to do so. The reason is historical, back in the 1960's the Afghans tried a rather ill advised "invasion" (actually more of a raid) into Pakistan territory. They got themselves roundly spanked and the border was shut down by the Government of the day, with two results

i) the Afghan economy which was dependent on cross border trade pretty much died. SOmething like 90% of Afghan food stuff comes from Pakistan, if that is shut off, well in the 1960's they needed a massive amount of aid from the USSR to survive

ii)After the incident, Pakistan forces actually occupied many startegic heights inside Afghanistan (which have not been vacated),

thus the mining of the border would destroy the Afghan economy or whatever passes for it and also make the border permenant.

 

[Zaheerkhan]

The key to peace in Afghanistan lies in Pakistan. Taliban is'nt coming into Pakistan from Afghanistan, they are going to afghanistan from Pakistan. The US must, include the SWAT region into their operations in Afghanistan.

 

[pakomar]

The key to peace in Afghanistan lies in Pakistan. Taliban is'nt coming into Pakistan from Afghanistan, they are going to afghanistan from Pakistan. The US must, include the SWAT region into their operations in Afghanistan.

Thanks to RAW they made it difficult.
Taliban real war is with NATO not with Muslims of Pakistan army and civilians. US send its troop in 2001 in Afghanistan their losses are less then 700.pakistan army loses are more than 2000 and they send their troop in 2004.
Problem is retreating Taliban from Afghanistan to Pakistan after US booming. Taliban kill tribal elders in Pakistan and use Pakistani people on the power of their guns.

 

[All-Green]

Political reasons; the ISAF was convinced by the Afghan Government not to do so. The reason is historical, back in the 1960's the Afghans tried a rather ill advised "invasion" (actually more of a raid) into Pakistan territory. They got themselves roundly spanked and the border was shut down by the Government of the day, with two results

i) the Afghan economy which was dependent on cross border trade pretty much died. SOmething like 90% of Afghan food stuff comes from Pakistan, if that is shut off, well in the 1960's they needed a massive amount of aid from the USSR to survive

ii)After the incident, Pakistan forces actually occupied many startegic heights inside Afghanistan (which have not been vacated),

thus the mining of the border would destroy the Afghan economy or whatever passes for it and also make the border permenant.

Glad to see this point being raised, absolutely spot on and a major reason that Afghanistan is not sincere in sealing the borders...they instead have a good time in accusing Pakistan but what steps do they want to take to help seal the border?
They have always rejected the offer to seal the borders and still say that we are being assailed and its all Pakistan's fault
Seal the borders effectively and they will start crying and blaming Pakistan for anti humanitarian and anti Afghan behavior...

All regional players and US should realize this by now...

 

[IceCold]

The key to peace in Afghanistan lies in Pakistan. Taliban is'nt coming into Pakistan from Afghanistan, they are going to afghanistan from Pakistan. The US must, include the SWAT region into their operations in Afghanistan.

Thanks for the deep insight you just showed over the issue, all US problems will be solved if they hire you instead of holbrooke. What a waste of talent.

 

[Patriot]

US could not win in Vietnam so they said Vietcong has safe haven in Cambodia and Nixon asked the US Military to bomb the hell out of Cambodia but still could not win war in Vietnam.You just can't use Military to win the wars...that's an imperialist thought specially if you are occupying a foriegn country.

 

[pakomar]

That a good one.
US stepping in swat to defeat Taliban .US can n t handle Afghanistan and losing ground worst they can n t handle their own borders 90% of Mexico drug weapons come from US.