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US Tells NATO Allies to 'Do More'

The people who are offended by this are those who have probably never been in the military, they are very patriotic and don't like our people taking criticism, which is fair enough but is a breeding ground for ignorance. Those in the Forces (came up in conversation with some of my friends who are still in) or who have served don't care about what they say. I could argue against each of these points and respond with my own criticisms of American operations, (yes criticism goes both ways and always will). The point is I wont, this kind of thing should be talked upon and dealt with behind closed doors by military officials and politicians (any failings are due to the Government, not the people on the ground).

One thing I shall say however is that some Americans talk of some of us having an air of superiority, they fail to realise that since the second world war they have by and large been the arrogant ones, not just diplomatically (that is to be expected given their power), but on an individual level. The sad thing is I don't think some of them know it.
 
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The comments by Brigadier Nigel Allyn-Foster are nearly three years old. Few presume that the British still wear their soft-caps on patrol in Basra or Helmand. Issues do exist on reconciling force packages between deployments and drug-control but are hardly new and haven't provoked any developments recently from which to draw attention.

An unusual article. I wonder the sort of audience for which it was intended?
 
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Tensions Rise as Afghans Say U.S. Raid Killed Civilians

By ADAM B. ELLICK

Published: December 18, 2008

KABUL, Afghanistan — A deadly United States military raid on a house near Afghanistan’s border with Pakistan became a new source of tension on Thursday, with the Americans calling it a successful counterterrorism strike and the Afghans saying it left three innocent civilians dead and two wounded, including a 4-year-old boy bitten by an attack dog.

The raid took place on Wednesday in the village of Kundi, in Khost Province. American military leaders and Afghan officials said they were investigating the conflicting accounts of what happened. But President Hamid Karzai, who has grown increasingly impatient with the American-led war effort against the Taliban insurgency, condemned the raid in front of government leaders and foreign diplomats, saying that “entering by force to our people’s houses is against the government of Afghanistan.”

Mr. Karzai, who will face an election next year, is under enormous pressure from Afghans who say the seven-year-old war against the Taliban has devastated the country and led to many civilian casualties at the hands of American-led forces. The raid took place on the same day that diplomats in Kabul called on foreign forces to increase their sensitivity to win over Afghans.

In Khost, American-led forces blasted the gate of the house early on Wednesday, then fatally shot the family’s father and mother and a male relative, according to Tahir Khan Sabry, deputy governor of the province. Their relationship with the wounded boy was unclear, and another woman was also bitten. Mr. Sabry described all the victims as noncombatant civilians.

The American military said that the raid led to the detention of an operative of Al Qaeda and that those killed were armed and showing “hostile intent.” Grenades, AK-47s, pistols and a shotgun were confiscated, American officials said.

The dispute over the Khost raid coincided with a visit to Afghanistan by Senator John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, who said the United States needed to win local support for the war.

In recent months, the governor of Khost, Arsala Jamal, has frequently complained about the actions of United States Special Forces here. He said episodes that harmed civilians undermined the progress of reconstruction efforts.

In Khost, public outrage over the house raid was visible at the funerals for those who were killed. The use of dogs in military actions is especially delicate for Afghans after the release of images showing dogs being used to intimidate detainees at the Bagram prison in Afghanistan and Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

“I saw the 4-year-old boy, and he had an injury under his knee that was definitely the mark of a dog bite,” said Rasoul Adel, a local television reporter.

Abdul Waheed Wafa and Carlotta Gall contributed reporting.
 
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The comments by Brigadier Nigel Allyn-Foster are nearly three years old. Few presume that the British still wear their soft-caps on patrol in Basra or Helmand. Issues do exist on reconciling force packages between deployments and drug-control but are hardly new and haven't provoked any developments recently from which to draw attention.

An unusual article. I wonder the sort of audience for which it was intended?

My unit wore Berets occasional in Helmand and we did not always wear full body armour, rarely and it was a risk but it had its benefits. I can PM you some more details if you want.
 
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Thanks but don't you agree that "occasional" and "...rarely and it was a risk..." somewhat set the tone?

Too, year plays into the picture.
 
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Thanks but don't you agree that "occasional" and "...rarely and it was a risk..." somewhat set the tone?

Too, year plays into the picture.

Too true, gone are the days when British units went out on patrol regularly wearing no body armour or helmets, with the increased risk and earlier mistakes in the battle for hearts and minds there are few opportunities for this.

Although you should have seen the patting on backs the media over here gave initially in Basra, eg 'our troops are out there with berets and wearing no armour, mixing with the population and the people all love us, while the Americans are driving round in tanks covered in armour, pointing guns at everything that moves and everybody hates them'. Then when Basra went downhill they shut up, (I still hold that with enough political will we could have won strategically there, we always won the battles but with the restrictions from politicians we couldn't always be out there to win.)
 
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"Dear Mr. Baldwin

I was sent an email by Dr. Carter Malkasian stating that you wished to speak to me. I then quickly was informed that an article was published with a quote from this summer's CNA/Press Club book launch.

I wished you had waited to speak to me, since I would have put the quote in context. There are many positive developments within the British Army at the moment.

British officers and soldiers were embarrassed since they felt they could not complete their COIN mission in Iraq, due to issues outside their remit.

There is recognition that the Americans have reformed beyond all expectations. The British Army has recognised the need to reform as well.

The British Army and HMG had many issues in MND SE due to a variety of decisions, one being the US approach to the campaign from 2003-06, which was not appropriate. However, the British Army recognised that the war had changed dramatically in 2007 and many commanders, officers, NCOs and soldiers wished there had been a shift of strategy from Whitehall for MND SE.

The shift finally occurred with the Charge of the Knights and the British were able to support the Iraqi 14 DIV in its efforts to clear and now hold the city of BASRA, through proper embedding into MITTs. The British Army in their time honoured tradition of learning and adapting, was able to restore honour to their mission in MND SE. Many lessons are being learned from the campaign in Iraq that have had a positive impact on British operations in Helmand and RC South.

The British campaign in RC South and Helmand has been difficult but not due to the efforts of the officers, NCOs and soldiers of the British Army. Their preparation for Helmand has been stronger with each HERRICK due to lessons from the past as well as Iraq. There are issues for the Army that are outside their control but rest with Whitehall that need to be addressed.

All armies need to learn and adapt. The Americans have done so and now the British are doing it as well.

I feel that I should write a letter to the editor or an op-ed to put these 'quotes' in their proper context. Do you have any ideas how best to do this?


Best
Daniel Marston"


The above is lifted from this post here. As I suggested, the journalism involved with this story is shoddy at best. Methinks ol' Mr. Baldwin performed a hatchet job. It's clear that Baldwin intended to use quotes by Marston and published them without further desire to place context. Regardless of Marston's opinions, his comments weren't offered any chance to be re-appraised although the opportunity existed to do so. Most unusual for the London Times.

Makes you wonder if there's a bag of "ready tricks" upon which to resort for boosting circulation?
 
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Makes you wonder if there's a bag of "ready tricks" upon which to resort for boosting circulation?

absolutely!!!
 
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All armies need to learn and adapt. The Americans have done so and now the British are doing it as well.




NATO should learn simple lesson that Afghanistan is land locked country without help of FATA tribes the NATO supplies are impossible.

How army can fight without safe supply line?????:hitwall:
 
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Not all supplies come through Pakistan.

More then 80% supply of NATA is through Pakistan .

Actually NATO leader dont have idea about the culture,tradition and customs of trible puhstoon except Britin who lost 18000 soilders in 18 century Afghan British wars.

All invaders ruled india thausand of years with the help of Afghans ,no one could ruled them without their will according to history.
 
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"Although you've been banned (again), you're wrong. Pakistan needs to be the first out of Afghanistan. And the Tajiks (Turkomen, Uzbeks, Hazaras) of Afghanistan will make sure of it.

The Pakistanis have traditionally supported the (majority) Pashtuns to kill Tajiks (Turkomen, Uzbeks, Hazaras). ISI needs to be chased out of Afghanistan."

Let's rewrite it to add more realism to it
"Although you've been banned (agin), you're wrong. United States needs to be the first out of Afghanistan. And the Pashtuns(FATA and Afghanis) of Afghanistan will make sure of it.

The Americans have traditionally supported the (minority) Tajiks to kill Pashtuns (as well as non compliant tajiks). CIA and RAW both need to be chased out of Afghanistan."

Few words, same intent. Targets reversed with perfect symmetry. I'll grant you, though
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Few words, same intent but the outcome predicted with perfect prescience. Targets reversed with perfect symmetry based on logic and on ground realities. :enjoy:
 
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Let's rewrite it to add more realism to it
"Although you've been banned (agin), you're wrong. United States needs to be the first out of Afghanistan. And the Pashtuns(FATA and Afghanis) of Afghanistan will make sure of it.

The Americans have traditionally supported the (minority) Tajiks to kill Pashtuns (as well as non compliant tajiks). CIA and RAW both need to be chased out of Afghanistan."

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Few words, same intent but the outcome predicted with perfect prescience. Targets reversed with perfect symmetry based on logic and on ground realities. :enjoy:



Start of blame game is indication of acceptance of high degree of weakness in command and control and failure of strategy of NATO.
 
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From The Sunday Times

US opens fire on Brown’s ‘war fatigue’
American defence chiefs believe Britain is not pulling its weight in Afghanistan and say more British troops are needed
Sarah Baxter and Nicola Smith
December 21, 2008



AS the United States prepares for a troop surge in Afghanistan in the new year, Robert Gates, the defence secretary, and senior commanders are concerned that the British government lacks the “political will” for the fight.

General John Craddock, the Nato commander, said last week that Britain must put more troops into Helmand province to defeat the Taliban insurgency.

In an interview with The Sunday Times at Nato’s supreme headquarters in Mons, Belgium, he said Gordon Brown’s announcement last Monday that more troops would bolster Britain’s 8,100-strong force in Afghanistan by March was not enough. Although planning is under way to send up to 3,000 extra troops to Afghanistan next summer if required, Brown committed only 300 in his Commons statement.

“I don’t think 300 more, if you are talking about Helmand province, will do the trick. We’ve got to hold down there until we’ve got some Afghan street forces who can take over,” Craddock said.

Brown’s decision to pull out of southern Iraq - leaving US troops to fill the gap - and his reluctance to commit to sending a substantial number of extra troops to Afghanistan have rung alarm bells in Washington.

US defence chiefs are concerned that Brown would rather pander to war fatigue back home than provide the long-term forces necessary for the new anti-Taliban surge. They fear the deteriorating situation in Afghanistan could soon make the war there as unpopular with the British as the conflict in Iraq.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup said last week that Britain would be able to redeploy some troops from Iraq to Afghanistan in the short term, but was ill equipped for a long fight. “We cannot just have a one-for-one transfer. The net result must be a reduction in our overall operation campaign,” said the defence chief.

A senior American defence adviser said Gates and US commanders were frustrated by the British response to their request for help. “They’re looking at the British government pulling out of Iraq and wondering, ‘Do they have the stomach for Afghanistan?’ Gates is concerned about the level of resources needed and the lack of political will to reinforce them.”

The US defence secretary has spelt out in a forthcoming issue of the journal Foreign Affairs that the mission in Afghanistan “poses an even more difficult and long-term challenge than Iraq - one that, despite a large international effort, will require a significant US military and economic commitment for some time”.

The Bush administration has prepared a classified review of Afghanistan due to be presented soon to the national security team of Barack Obama, the president-elect. It presents a series of “options” for the new administration, including the threat to withhold aid to Pakistan unless its military takes effective measures against militants in the Afghan border region.

Plans to increase US troop levels by 20,000 to 30,000 in Afghanistan are under way, Admiral Mike Mullen, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, said last night. The strategy proposes to secure up to 40 “critical districts” - offering protection to the local population, coopting tribal militias and pouring resources into reconstruction and development. It is a continuation of the “clear, hold and build” strategy that has brought relative stability to Iraq.

“In Helmand, we’ve got to have a sharper effort in the coordination of ‘hold and build’. If there’s a shortfall, it’s in the funding and monies available for the military to do that,” said Craddock.

The Nato commander refused to put a figure on how many US and Nato troops were required. “We still have gaps; we still have key shortfalls, such as helicopters. We’re short of medium and heavy lift; we’re short of medivac [medical evacuation] . . . we’re short of intel [intelligence], surveillance and reconnaissance capabilities, so we need that filled up,” Craddock said.

John Nagl, a retired colonel who under General David Petraeus co-wrote the US army’s new counter-insurgency manual, said the extra US troops promised by the Pentagon would be a “good start”. However, he added that more international troops were needed to secure the local population while the national Afghan army was expanded and trained as a credible fighting force.

“The British nation has a decision to make about how important it considers Afghanistan to be,” Nagl said. This summer he attended a US seminar on counterinsurgency in which the British performance in Iraq was heavily criticised.

Daniel Marston, a US defence expert who has been embedded with British troops, said US forces resented the way the British had flaunted their supposedly superior counterinsurgency skills at the beginning of the war.

“Things [are] getting better because the British are recognising that they made mistakes and they were arrogant,” Marston said at the talk.

A senior defence adviser said relations between US and British military commanders had improved greatly.

General Sir Mike Jackson, the former chief of the general staff, said last night that the violence in postwar Iraq was “much exacerbated by the security vacuum created by Washington’s appalling decisions” to disband the Iraqi security forces. Removal of Saddam Hussein’s civil service loyalists had doubled the time coalition forces had to remain in Iraq.
 
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Do the US commanders and politicians realise the strain being placed on Britain's armed forces by the current deployments? We are over deployed and pulling out of Iraq and putting some of those troops in Afghanistan is the sensible thing to do. Besides not all the troops in Iraq are suited for Helmand, heavy armour for example.
 
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