US strikes at the heart of China's tech ambitions with chipmaker ban

[sixth]

For the top three chip maker in the world, TSMC, Intel, Samsung, their most powerful chip making equipment, the most advance photolithography machines are from ASML, made by Dutch.

ASML is the sole producer of the most advance photolithography machine, no other company in the world are capable of making those top machines

ASML is a Dutch company. At the sames time, TSMC, Intel, Samsung are holding certain shares of the ASML Dutch company.

For those high-energy laser heads, the most critical part of the photolithography machines, are make by Germans

So who holds the most critical key component for the machines to make the most advance CPUs, GPUs etc?

not America, not Dutch, but Deutsche.

if the world is in chaos, anyone is blockading anyone, America is not the most powerful, but Germans can stop earth revolving.


Cowboy is selve-over-estimatiging himself.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

The idiot is you. TSMC is just a fabricating semi conductor company. The final design is done by Huawei. It just like saying the great crusine cooked by a great chef is not his effort since the vegie and meat ingredient is not grow by him....

US company are not able to dictate who shall their end customers deal with since the direct customers never breach the agreement. And there is still Dutch NXP company that specializes in making semi conductor machine. If US don't deal, TSMC or China can always go for others. Anyway, Chinese semi con fabrication only depends on very high end end fabricated chips like 7nm and not those 20nm which China itself is totally capable of doing everything themselves. There is reason why loongson chips for China military application and beidou 2/3 are not able to stop by US since everything from fabrication to final end chips design is done within China.

Your mighty India can't even fabricated 100nm, such a useless country. Show more concern for your own and rather being a sourgraped and come in with all kind of b**ching for China.

1. The design is not completely owned by Huawei because huawei uses the recipe (here cores) of other companies.
2. The fabrication process is not a small deal and is very complicated and complex. Hence it is done by only few companies in the world.
3. TSMC and all other vendors rely on many US components. Heck, even Huawei uses many US components like for example the RF part of the phone.
4. US can also ban TSMC from doing any fabrication for Chinese companies if it wanted to.
5. You are wrong. China only makes chips upto 28 nm, and even there, SMIC relies on American companies for fabrication equipment. If SMIC is stopped from buying fabrication equipment, wafer, and other material, it will come to halt.
6. Chinese plans to produce memory chips in-house can be totally stopped due to such bans, because all of the memory companies ultimately buy equipment from American Vendors.
7. NXP doesn't produce equipment.
8. You may not know, but military equipment often uses very old tech.
9. India is not a topic of discussion here. India doesn't matter here. India also hasn't become enemies or adversaries with America.
10. Your bringing in India is just a poor move, and shows your intellectual handicap.

For the top three chip maker in the world, TSMC, Intel, Samsung, their most powerful chip making equipment, the most advance photolithography machines are from ASML, made by Dutch.

ASML is the sole producer of the most advance photolithography machine, no other company in the world are capable of making those top machines

ASML is a Dutch company. At the sames time, TSMC, Intel, Samsung are holding certain shares of the ASML Dutch company.

For those high-energy laser heads, the most critical part of the photolithography machines, are make by Germans

So who holds the most critical key component for the machines to make the most advance CPUs, GPUs etc?

not America, not Dutch, but Deutsche.

if the world is in chaos, anyone is blockading anyone, America is not the most powerful, but Germans can stop earth revolving.


Cowboy is selve-over-estimatiging himself.

Umm. ASML only has a lead in one equipment which is EUV lithography. Rest equipment for chip testing, and others still has to come from American Vendors.

Also, European countries are allies with USA and usually follow the US tune.

The idiot is you. TSMC is just a fabricating semi conductor company. The final design is done by Huawei. It just like saying the great crusine cooked by a great chef is not his effort since the vegie and meat ingredient is not grow by him....

US company are not able to dictate who shall their end customers deal with since the direct customers never breach the agreement. And there is still Dutch NXP company that specializes in making semi conductor machine. If US don't deal, TSMC or China can always go for others. Anyway, Chinese semi con fabrication only depends on very high end end fabricated chips like 7nm and not those 20nm which China itself is totally capable of doing everything themselves. There is reason why loongson chips for China military application and beidou 2/3 are not able to stop by US since everything from fabrication to final end chips design is done within China.

Your mighty India can't even fabricated 100nm, such a useless country. Show more concern for your own and rather being a sourgraped and come in with all kind of b**ching for China.

One thing I forgot to tell.

Huawei uses the software of an American company for designing its chips. An embargo could lead to restriction to even proper design software.

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Too late yankees,you should ban americain investments and techs in the 1990s,today it is too late to stop the RISE of CHINA!

For the top three chip maker in the world, TSMC, Intel, Samsung, their most powerful chip making equipment, the most advance photolithography machines are from ASML, made by Dutch.

ASML is the sole producer of the most advance photolithography machine, no other company in the world are capable of making those top machines

ASML is a Dutch company. At the sames time, TSMC, Intel, Samsung are holding certain shares of the ASML Dutch company.

For those high-energy laser heads, the most critical part of the photolithography machines, are make by Germans

So who holds the most critical key component for the machines to make the most advance CPUs, GPUs etc?

not America, not Dutch, but Deutsche.

if the world is in chaos, anyone is blockading anyone, America is not the most powerful, but Germans can stop earth revolving.


Cowboy is selve-over-estimatiging himself.

In the present world, no country or group can stop the progress and development of mankind. China cannot introduce foreign technology. It may make the Chinese people develop slowly at the beginning. However, no one can now Stop the rise of China.

The more the Americans impose a severe blockade on China, the more they will arouse the Chinese people’s centuries of stigma of invaision , which makes the Chinese more more active. In 1960, Khrushchev retreated all Soviet experts in China and firmly said: Without the help of the Soviet Union, the Chinese could not create an atomic bomb in 20 years. As a result, China created an atomic bomb four years later in 1964.
The character of the Chinese is like this: The more you look down on the Chinese abilities, the more Chinese people will prove to show you his abilities.

Americans yankees, please ban Microsoft and Google from exporting windows and android operating systems to China. Please!

 

[Beast]

1. You are wrong. China only makes chips upto 28 nm, and even there, SMIC relies on American companies for fabrication equipment. If SMIC is stopped from buying fabrication equipment, wafer, and other material, it will come to halt.

See how fast I took down your myth. The rest I guess is rubbish.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Co...wnplays-threat-to-supply-chain-from-trade-war

1. The design is not completely owned by Huawei because huawei uses the recipe (here cores) of other companies.
2. The fabrication process is not a small deal and is very complicated and complex. Hence it is done by only few companies in the world.
3. TSMC and all other vendors rely on many US components. Heck, even Huawei uses many US components like for example the RF part of the phone.
4. US can also ban TSMC from doing any fabrication for Chinese companies if it wanted to.
5. You are wrong. China only makes chips upto 28 nm, and even there, SMIC relies on American companies for fabrication equipment. If SMIC is stopped from buying fabrication equipment, wafer, and other material, it will come to halt.
6. Chinese plans to produce memory chips in-house can be totally stopped due to such bans, because all of the memory companies ultimately buy equipment from American Vendors.
7. NXP doesn't produce equipment.
8. You may not know, but military equipment often uses very old tech.
9. India is not a topic of discussion here. India doesn't matter here. India also hasn't become enemies or adversaries with America.
10. Your bringing in India is just a poor move, and shows your intellectual handicap.

Umm. ASML only has a lead in one equipment which is EUV lithography. Rest equipment for chip testing, and others still has to come from American Vendors.

Also, European countries are allies with USA and usually follow the US tune.



One thing I forgot to tell.

Huawei uses the software of an American company for designing its chips. An embargo could lead to restriction to even proper design software.

You are indeed delusion. Machine used to fabricated semi conductor is a one time off sales that will not have impact on future fabrication for next decades or more....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toshiba-Kongsberg_scandal

Toshiba is fined and promised never export such machine to Russia. Did it stop Russia further production of submarine or even future more advance submarine? The Russian is still able to refine their submarine thru the existing machine.

I know you are jealous of Chinese advancement and try every cheapshot to misled others. US is never able to stop Chinese semi conductor production and advancement, their measure is too late.

 

[Tauren Paladin]

China has a big economy and strong tech industry. They should push hard for self reliance, so one day China can conquer US in this field.

 

[艹艹艹]

• India is not a topic of discussion here. India doesn't matter here. India also hasn't become enemies or adversaries with America.

India as a superpower, it doesn't even have challenge America's guts.

poor Indian

 

[GumNaam]

China has already attained the technology that you are trying to protect and has developed technology that you would want. The only ones that you are hurting uncle sam are your own comm-tech companies who are relying on the cheap but reliable Chinese computer chips to make their own products...now they'll have to buy more expensive american, japanese and korean ones.

oh uncle sam, you silly silly old man, will you ever learn?!

 

[gambit]

You are indeed delusion. Machine used to fabricated semi conductor is a one time off sales that will not have impact on future fabrication for next decades or more....

No, it is YOU who are delusional. Each iteration of a product requires greater precision in everything, from photolith to chemical/gaseous dispense and all the way to testing.

For example...

https://www.formfactor.com/press-re...ite-parallelism-at-200-mhz-wafer-test-speeds/

Currently, any company that manufactures at 300 mm wafers and still uses multi-touchdown cards are operating at a loss of time, precision, and wafer out per week.

One of you used to work for Intel in Wets at Fab 68 Dalian, China. He will understand what I am talking about. You do not.

 

[GumNaam]

No, it is YOU who are delusional. Each iteration of a product requires greater precision in everything, from photolith to chemical/gaseous dispense and all the way to testing.

For example...

https://www.formfactor.com/press-re...ite-parallelism-at-200-mhz-wafer-test-speeds/

Currently, any company that manufactures at 300 mm wafers and still uses multi-touchdown cards are operating at a loss of time, precision, and wafer out per week.

One of you used to work for Intel in Wets at Fab 68 Dalian, China. He will understand what I am talking about. You do not.

So, question for you... what is stopping China from reverse engineering all the fabs and machines inside the fab involved the photolithic and gas /chemical dispensing processes? What makes you think that they haven't already done so? You do realize that China today is as scientifically innovative as the u.s., Korea, europe and japan are, right?

 

[Imran Khan]

All usa can id attack on balls of china

 

[gambit]

So, question for you... what is stopping China from reverse engineering all the fabs and machines inside the fab involved the photolithic and gas /chemical dispensing processes? What makes you think that they haven't already done so? You do realize that China today is as scientifically innovative as the u.s., Korea, europe and japan are, right?

Nothing to stop China at all. But that question revealed you do not know much about manufacturing in general, let something as complex about nano meter scaling manufacturing in specifics.

I ask you this: Which is quicker to get you producing, make your own hammer or buy an existing hammer?

China copied Russian fighter aircraft and the quality of the copy is not something to boast about. People toss the phrase 'reverse engineering' rather carelessly. We are treading into semiconductor manufacturing, an area I have been in for over 20 yrs, starting with being a field engineer for Santa Clara Plastics, later SCP Global Tech. Then I moved to Micron Tech where I helped the Micron Shanghai facility going. Chinese engineers are not as innovative and creative as China would like you believe, despite all the news about China's technology rise. Between Micron's fab 4 in the US and Micron's fabs in China, innovation runs one-way: from fab 4 to China.

Micron's and Intel's facilities in China are completely dependent on US sources for improvement in everything. Both companies allows each of their China sites a lot of autonomy as long as each produce its committed weekly wafer outputs. Both companies did their own surveys and found their China sites requires 1/4 more manpower than their US sites per area, from the fab to test to finished goods. Code reviews found enough bugs to compel all production level codes to be submitted to US sites for reviews prior to approval for release. Chinese equipment techs prefers to have procedures for every situation and if they encounters something not in the books, they would escalate the problem to the engineers, requiring each area to have an on-shift engineer. This is despite Intel's program of 'Copy Smart' and Micron have its own version of replication. Overall, efficiency at the Chinese sites are less than the US sites -- for both companies. I work with engineers who came from Samsung semicon divisions and they reported similar issues about Samsung's China sites.

So by all means, China can 'reverse engineer' from all the paid for fabrication equipment. It will take just one yr for the world to reject semicon products from mainland China.

 

[GumNaam]

Nothing to stop China at all. But that question revealed you do not know much about manufacturing in general, let something as complex about nano meter scaling manufacturing in specifics.

I ask you this: Which is quicker to get you producing, make your own hammer or buy an existing hammer?

China copied Russian fighter aircraft and the quality of the copy is not something to boast about. People toss the phrase 'reverse engineering' rather carelessly. We are treading into semiconductor manufacturing, an area I have been in for over 20 yrs, starting with being a field engineer for Santa Clara Plastics, later SCP Global Tech. Then I moved to Micron Tech where I helped the Micron Shanghai facility going. Chinese engineers are not as innovative and creative as China would like you believe, despite all the news about China's technology rise. Between Micron's fab 4 in the US and Micron's fabs in China, innovation runs one-way: from fab 4 to China.

Micron's and Intel's facilities in China are completely dependent on US sources for improvement in everything. Both companies allows each of their China sites a lot of autonomy as long as each produce its committed weekly wafer outputs. Both companies did their own surveys and found their China sites requires 1/4 more manpower than their US sites per area, from the fab to test to finished goods. Code reviews found enough bugs to compel all production level codes to be submitted to US sites for reviews prior to approval for release. Chinese equipment techs prefers to have procedures for every situation and if they encounters something not in the books, they would escalate the problem to the engineers, requiring each area to have an on-shift engineer. This is despite Intel's program of 'Copy Smart' and Micron have its own version of replication. Overall, efficiency at the Chinese sites are less than the US sites -- for both companies. I work with engineers who came from Samsung semicon divisions and they reported similar issues about Samsung's China sites.

So by all means, China can 'reverse engineer' from all the paid for fabrication equipment. It will take just one yr for the world to reject semicon products from mainland China.

I'm not an expert on anything semiconductor by any means but I think you completely missed the gist of the message of what I said after asking my question...whatever reverse engineering of manufacturing equipment China needed to do has already been done a long time ago. They are now just as innovative as you are and make their own manufacturing equipment for ICs based on the demands of the market.

In other words...they don't really need to import anything any more...

 

[gambit]

I'm not an expert on anything semiconductor by any means but I think you completely missed the gist of the message of what I said after asking my question...whatever reverse engineering of manufacturing equipment China needed to do has already been done a long time ago. They are now just as innovative as you are and make their own manufacturing equipment for ICs based on the demands of the market.

In other words...they don't really need to import anything any more...

And you just missed the irony of your post: You claimed ignorance of everything semicon but you dismissed everything someone who are in semicon said.

 

[GumNaam]

And you just missed the irony of your post: You claimed ignorance of everything semicon but you dismissed everything someone who are in semicon said.

yeah okay a'ight man, whatever rocks your jealous little boat...

 

[Arulmozhi Varman]

The idiot is you. TSMC is just a fabricating semi conductor company. The final design is done by Huawei. It just like saying the great crusine cooked by a great chef is not his effort since the vegie and meat ingredient is not grow by him....

US company are not able to dictate who shall their end customers deal with since the direct customers never breach the agreement. And there is still Dutch NXP company that specializes in making semi conductor machine. If US don't deal, TSMC or China can always go for others. Anyway, Chinese semi con fabrication only depends on very high end end fabricated chips like 7nm and not those 20nm which China itself is totally capable of doing everything themselves. There is reason why loongson chips for China military application and beidou 2/3 are not able to stop by US since everything from fabrication to final end chips design is done within China.

Your mighty India can't even fabricated 100nm, such a useless country. Show more concern for your own and rather being a sourgraped and come in with all kind of b**ching for China.

Design and fabrication is different things. I quite a lot of Indian Chip companies designing MC's and MP's for different third party clients including Microchip, Qualcomm and Nvidia. But that same companies do not have the capability to fabricate them. You can design them with specific softwares on ur pc.
China right now has the ability to design and fabricate for small orders. But for large orders its dependent upon american techs as fabricating machines, technology are all controlled by US tech firms is his point.