US ship involved in accident.

[Hack-Hook]

wont they want to prevent incidents such as hitting a friendly North Korean or Chinese submarine which innocently pass the area ? Honestly if they won't operate the radars also wot operate the sonars and non of the 300 crew were watching for any ship around ,then what they were doing ? If I'm not wrong the captain at the time was resting in his room then who had the control of the ship and what he taught that he decided to sail blindfolded in the area .

A.) The situation is different, one is a Cruiser attack an Aircraft that intention remain uncleared during COMBAT CONDITION. I don't know what you mean by "Proven False" the ship was engaging with Iranian Gunboat at that time, and the precursor of the Cruiser reaction is the gunboat attacking the helicopter launched by Vincennes. Which is according to the RoE at that time justified an pursuit to safe guard the US Force under the Captain Command.

The report also said the TAO or the technician operating the AEGIS system have left the tab on Bandar Abbas, thus picked up both the Airbus and F-14 that were ready to launch at that time, which the report have admitted was a mistake.

I don't know what you mean by the wiping the whole islands off their report.

And according to the RoE at that time, the Cruiser are not required to contact the aircraft via Transponder Squawk.

As for the Scenario Fulfilment, if you have once look at the clock and think you are time to go home from work but actually it wasn't, that's scenario fulfilment, I have a few of these episode myself, especially if you are stressed, I don't know what do you mean by "faking it" unless you are calling this does not exist.

And in the end, the report have heavily criticized the RoE for which the power given to combat commander at the time, and the RoE was amended afterward, we are no longer using that RoE since Gulf War. and today RoE is another upgraded version that refined from that RoE

Also need to point out is that Iran have probably equal if not more responsibility in this shoot down, they know the aircraft, from its flight path and latest development that Flight 655, is almost certainly go over a combat zone, and they did not warn the crew of 655, Flight 655 left Bandar Abbas at 1017Z.The fight between Vincennes and Irani Gun boat started as early as 0942z, basically for 30 minutes, they (Iranian ATC) does not notice the crew for Flight 655 of entering possible combat zone.

The report is comprehensive, you choose not to believe it.

B.) This is for a destroyer hit by a cargo ship in peace time, at night, where the cargo ship have obvious fault to begin with. And for this to get to the bottom of the incident, anything said before a comprehensive report is issued is hearsay.

Well the problem is that they faked SOS from a non existent Liberian tanker and come to its help inside Iranian water. Then for hiding the fact and claim they were in international water they produced a map that accidentally lacked Iranian island of Hengam so the ship seems to be in international water . they even didn't stopped to that they changed the place of the firing the missile so they can claim that the airplane was outside flight corridor . (they forgot thatpersian gulf is not an open see with high tide and the debries remain were they fall in this case exactly in middle of flight corridor)
About the f14 there was no f14 flying at the time or even before that only one p3 Orion which was on the runway and if even they were locking on it they could not claim that it was accelerating and was dead rising its altitude as it was stationary .

Also how you call an passenger airplane ?how you expect it answer you when you use a frequency that it can't here and also state wrong speed and altitude and also call it unidentified and even once call it f14 ?

And another question what was that helicopter and ship were doing inside Iranian water around 70miles away from the area that they were supposed to be according to their commands .

Well for the further information about the incident search the net for "sea of lies" it show you how us navy investigation are trustworthy.

 

[Oldman1]

How is the Crystal crew flashing lights when they were on autopilot and sleeping?

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/...lashed-warning-lights-at-destroyer-fitzgerald

The captain of the cargo ship that collided with the U.S. destroyer Fitzgerald earlier this month said in a report that the U.S. warship failed to respond to warning signals or take other evasive maneuvers, Reuters reported Monday.

The collision early on June 17 off the coast of Japan killed seven sailors. They were still in their living quarters at the time of the impact.

The cargo vessel's skipper, Capt. Ronald Advincula, submitted a report to the ship's owner, Dainichi Investment Corporation. The captain's statement alleges that the container ship, the Philippine-flagged ACX Crystal, had "signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald 'suddenly' steamed onto a course to cross its path," according to the Reuters article.

The Crystal steered hard to starboard to avoid the destroyer, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to Advincula's report that was seen by Reuters.

 

[jhungary]

wont they want to prevent incidents such as hitting a friendly North Korean or Chinese submarine which innocently pass the area ? Honestly if they won't operate the radars also wot operate the sonars and non of the 300 crew were watching for any ship around ,then what they were doing ? If I'm not wrong the captain at the time was resting in his room then who had the control of the ship and what he taught that he decided to sail blindfolded in the area .


Well the problem is that they faked SOS from a non existent Liberian tanker and come to its help inside Iranian water. Then for hiding the fact and claim they were in international water they produced a map that accidentally lacked Iranian island of Hengam so the ship seems to be in international water . they even didn't stopped to that they changed the place of the firing the missile so they can claim that the airplane was outside flight corridor . (they forgot thatpersian gulf is not an open see with high tide and the debries remain were they fall in this case exactly in middle of flight corridor)
About the f14 there was no f14 flying at the time or even before that only one p3 Orion which was on the runway and if even they were locking on it they could not claim that it was accelerating and was dead rising its altitude as it was stationary .

Also how you call an passenger airplane ?how you expect it answer you when you use a frequency that it can't here and also state wrong speed and altitude and also call it unidentified and even once call it f14 ?

And another question what was that helicopter and ship were doing inside Iranian water around 70miles away from the area that they were supposed to be according to their commands .

Well for the further information about the incident search the net for "sea of lies" it show you how us navy investigation are trustworthy.

You are detracting from the post, this post is not about USS Vincennes shot down Flight 655. The report had reported all the fact happened during the time line, I actually doubt you have read Fogarty report. You are more than welcome to argue or disbelieve the fact listed on Fogarty Report.

But this, again, as I said, is a different incident, one is accidentally shot down an airliner during a naval engagement, a conscious act, whether or not if they were getting all the right information or whether or not they were legal to do so. The other is 2 ship collided in peace time condition.

Please focus back on Fitzgerald and ACX Crystal issue, you are more than welcome to open a new thread about Fogarty reports if you want to discuss the matter further

 

[Hack-Hook]

How is the Crystal crew flashing lights when they were on autopilot and sleeping?

https://www.navytimes.com/articles/...lashed-warning-lights-at-destroyer-fitzgerald

The captain of the cargo ship that collided with the U.S. destroyer Fitzgerald earlier this month said in a report that the U.S. warship failed to respond to warning signals or take other evasive maneuvers, Reuters reported Monday.

The collision early on June 17 off the coast of Japan killed seven sailors. They were still in their living quarters at the time of the impact.

The cargo vessel's skipper, Capt. Ronald Advincula, submitted a report to the ship's owner, Dainichi Investment Corporation. The captain's statement alleges that the container ship, the Philippine-flagged ACX Crystal, had "signaled with flashing lights after the Fitzgerald 'suddenly' steamed onto a course to cross its path," according to the Reuters article.

The Crystal steered hard to starboard to avoid the destroyer, but hit the Fitzgerald 10 minutes later at 1:30 a.m., according to Advincula's report that was seen by Reuters.

Here is another question how come Fitzgerald could not steer out of the path of crystal.

Let just say crystal was a derelict ship without any crew . Fitzgerald had the ability to avoid collision.

 

[Hack-Hook]

You are detracting from the post, this post is not about USS Vincennes shot down Flight 655. The report had reported all the fact happened during the time line, I actually doubt you have read Fogarty report. You are more than welcome to argue or disbelieve the fact listed on Fogarty Report.

But this, again, as I said, is a different incident, one is accidentally shot down an airliner during a naval engagement, a conscious act, whether or not if they were getting all the right information or whether or not they were legal to do so. The other is 2 ship collided in peace time condition.

Please focus back on Fitzgerald and ACX Crystal issue, you are more than welcome to open a new thread about Fogarty reports if you want to discuss the matter further

Well we have problem with accident because they were the only people ever who get a medal for shooting down a passenger jet . and yes I read that report.
By the way hsee we are talking about the investigation and I put here another instance that us navy lied to us senate about an accident and faked evidence in senate.

 

[ashok321]

On Friday, Rear Adm. Brian Fort, a veteran warship commander, was ordered to lead the Navy’s main investigation of the collision. The multiple investigations now underway — two by the Navy, one by the United States Coast Guard, others by the Japanese Coast Guard and the Crystal’s insurers — will probably provide answers. But even if the Crystal crew was asleep, Navy veterans say the far more maneuverable Fitzgerald will likely bear much of the blame.

 

[jhungary]

Well we have problem with accident because they were the only people ever who get a medal for shooting down a passenger jet . and yes I read that report.
By the way hsee we are talking about the investigation and I put here another instance that us navy lied to us senate about an accident and faked evidence in senate.

judging from what you said, you have no idea how to carry out an investigation and no idea how the report would have written.

Investigation is carry out using fact (include known fact such as rules and laws and data from hard evidence) and speculation. The goal we want to do coming out of an investigation is for the speculation align with the fact. That's why all report in this kind of investigation would carry the term "Probable Clause" but not claim as "What actually did happened" Because in reality, nobody in the third party knows what happened.

Now, I don't know how or what you claim "Lied" to the US Senate. the medal presented (including the Legion of Merit awarded to Captain William Rogers) are for his performance under the threat presented, and yes, the Airliner are deemed as a "Threat" at that time by the US Rule of Engagement back in 1988. If we are to use the RoE today, which included 2 form of VID of the target before firing the first shot. Then no, in today standard, that act would have been cold blooded murder.

The problem is, for the fact it remain, back In 1988, the Iranian Flight 655 is "HOSTILE" yes, I repeat, it is HOSTILE. To the Navy Warship operating on the area, because they have ignore the hail, they have not alter the course and fly straight toward the US Warship in an engagement zone. To the US Navy, especially to Captain Rogers at that time, these fact present to him, according to the Rules of Engagement which allowed the Captain power to declare an exclusion zone within 20 mile of his ship and it is up to his discretion on shooting down anything, Military or Civil. Back in 1988, under the Rules of Engagement, this is allowed.

I would not say US Navy have nothing to blame for Iranian Flight 655, but the blame is mostly on the ROE itself, we all know RoE is not perfect, and the ROE have been frequently reviewed, for example, in WW2, we can chuck a few frag grenade to clear a room, in today term we are not allow to do that by our RoE, and up to Vietnam era, everything in a combat zone is free for all as per RoE, today, we need to PID any target before we shoot.

Problem is, while the US did actually shoot down the Flight 655, it always take 2 to tango, Iranian side also have to bore the ultimate responsibility that did not warn off any pilot flying in the area and close Flight Level to civil travel in an active warzone. In a responsible manner, the Iran-Iraq war has been going on for 8 years, they should have close the air space to the south knowing a naval war happened over the southern ocean everyday, but if you don't do it, at least you can warn and/or impose flight restriction for Comair in the ocean once the government of Iran understood there was an active engagement going on. But of which have not been done by Iranian Authority, I wonder if this piece of information were in your Iranian report??

Biased? False? Or just trying to make sense of the situation, I will let you be the judge. But as a common saying goes, excuses is like and arsehole where everyone has one but wouldn't want to see others. What you said goes both way my friend.

Here is another question how come Fitzgerald could not steer out of the path of crystal.

Let just say crystal was a derelict ship without any crew . Fitzgerald had the ability to avoid collision.

How do you actually even know Fitzgerald did not make any maneuverer to avoid collision? Just because both ship collided does not mean one side did not try to skid away from the other.

And under IMO rules, both ship are required and responsible for collision avoidance. Without knowing what actually did the US Destroyer do, can you say for sure Fitzgerald did not at all attempted to steer away from the course?

 

[Hack-Hook]

judging from what you said, you have no idea how to carry out an investigation and no idea how the report would have written.

Investigation is carry out using fact (include known fact such as rules and laws and data from hard evidence) and speculation. The goal we want to do coming out of an investigation is for the speculation align with the fact. That's why all report in this kind of investigation would carry the term "Probable Clause" but not claim as "What actually did happened" Because in reality, nobody in the third party knows what happened.

Now, I don't know how or what you claim "Lied" to the US Senate. the medal presented (including the Legion of Merit awarded to Captain William Rogers) are for his performance under the threat presented, and yes, the Airliner are deemed as a "Threat" at that time by the US Rule of Engagement back in 1988. If we are to use the RoE today, which included 2 form of VID of the target before firing the first shot. Then no, in today standard, that act would have been cold blooded murder.

The problem is, for the fact it remain, back In 1988, the Iranian Flight 655 is "HOSTILE" yes, I repeat, it is HOSTILE. To the Navy Warship operating on the area, because they have ignore the hail, they have not alter the course and fly straight toward the US Warship in an engagement zone. To the US Navy, especially to Captain Rogers at that time, these fact present to him, according to the Rules of Engagement which allowed the Captain power to declare an exclusion zone within 20 mile of his ship and it is up to his discretion on shooting down anything, Military or Civil. Back in 1988, under the Rules of Engagement, this is allowed.

I would not say US Navy have nothing to blame for Iranian Flight 655, but the blame is mostly on the ROE itself, we all know RoE is not perfect, and the ROE have been frequently reviewed, for example, in WW2, we can chuck a few frag grenade to clear a room, in today term we are not allow to do that by our RoE, and up to Vietnam era, everything in a combat zone is free for all as per RoE, today, we need to PID any target before we shoot.

Problem is, while the US did actually shoot down the Flight 655, it always take 2 to tango, Iranian side also have to bore the ultimate responsibility that did not warn off any pilot flying in the area and close Flight Level to civil travel in an active warzone. In a responsible manner, the Iran-Iraq war has been going on for 8 years, they should have close the air space to the south knowing a naval war happened over the southern ocean everyday, but if you don't do it, at least you can warn and/or impose flight restriction for Comair in the ocean once the government of Iran understood there was an active engagement going on. But of which have not been done by Iranian Authority, I wonder if this piece of information were in your Iranian report??

Biased? False? Or just trying to make sense of the situation, I will let you be the judge. But as a common saying goes, excuses is like and arsehole where everyone has one but wouldn't want to see others. What you said goes both way my friend.



How do you actually even know Fitzgerald did not make any maneuverer to avoid collision? Just because both ship collided does not mean one side did not try to skid away from the other.

And under IMO rules, both ship are required and responsible for collision avoidance. Without knowing what actually did the US Destroyer do, can you say for sure Fitzgerald did not at all attempted to steer away from the course?

Well I post 2 video of what a warship can do go and look at it.

And I see you deny anything that is against us navy . by the way go and read what they presented to us senate and how they hailed the passenger airplane to see what I mean by lies this

http://www.newsweek.com/sea-lies-200118

By the way can you enlighten me how an Iranian passenger jet must answer us navy ship when they call an Iranian fighter over the radio and claim they are in international water while they were in Iranian water?

 

[jhungary]

Well I post 2 video of what a warship can do go and look at it.

So, you posted 2 video? Big Fking Deal.

How do you know.

A.) Perform emergency reverse can dodge the cargoship.
B.) The US ship does not do it?

If you can answer me this?

And I see you deny anything that is against us navy . by the way go and read what they presented to us senate and how they hailed the passenger airplane to see what I mean by lies this

http://www.newsweek.com/sea-lies-200118

Your argument is that Fogarty lies to the senate and claim Vincennes "race" to the help of a Libyan tanker?

lol, first of all, was that an actual lies is up to debate, the fogarty report said it was a "PAKISTANI" merchant ship that was the Vincennes is helping. Not a Liberian Ship, and when I access all these accusation is a mere "Claim" that a navy source (without any reference and without naming the source) suggested that the Vincennes was in the vincinity to save a "decoy", but I cannot find any "Reference" on this "Official Navy Channel" I found, however, on the official Fogarty Report, it stated the Iranian gunboat is attacking a Pakistani Merchant ship on July 3

here are the transcript of the Fogarty report.

and second of all, the pursuit entering into Iranian Water is because of the gunboat firing at Vincennes Helicopter, that is cited as the reason as to why the ship entering Iranian Water and thus entering into the eventual flight path of Flight 655.

In Fogarty Report, it had already mentioned Captain Richard McKenna, surface warfare commander of the action group suggested he (McKenna) only gave the order for Rogers to send a helicopter to investigate, to which Rogers complies, and once the helicopter was shot at, basically the order have been countermanded and allowing a full force response.

By the way can you enlighten me how an Iranian passenger jet must answer us navy ship when they call an Iranian fighter over the radio and claim they are in international water while they were in Iranian water?

You don't need to answer, and they didn't, and you get shot down.

When a warship ask you to Identify yourself, it's up to you to answer them, if you don't answer them, then the warship will designated you as BOGEY, and if you keep your course and enter the exclusion zone, you are then becoming a BANDIT, and the warship have the right to shoot you down. Regardless of what water you are in.

The Act of War have already been made according to the US Navy when Iranian Gunboat attack Vincennes Helicopter. That is the act that allowed Vincennes to enter Iranian Water, and that is the reason an exclusion zone is established, in fact, if you fly into the zone, the Vincennes do not actually need to ask you before they shoot you down. This has been done by ANY NAVY in the world. I mean, how would I know that which is Comair and which is Not, especially if YOU DO NOT REPLY TO MY CALL. In this case, I will think aggressively and declare you a bandit, and I will attack you if you do not answer the call.

 

[gambit]

...how would I know that which is Comair and which is Not,...

The counter argument to that question is...

The Vicennes had the AEGIS system, the most advanced radar in the world...blah...blah...blah...

When it suits them, the AEGIS is crap, but for what happened with Iran Air Flight 655, the AEGIS can tell even which passenger had what for lunch.

 

[Smoking Snakes]

Sad.

 

[Hack-Hook]

Well how a passenger jet answer you if you hail a fighter jet and use military radio frequency.

The counter argument to that question is...

The Vicennes had the AEGIS system, the most advanced radar in the world...blah...blah...blah...

When it suits them, the AEGIS is crap, but for what happened with Iran Air Flight 655, the AEGIS can tell even which passenger had what for lunch.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Pakistani in denial:

Says the guy who got banned LOL Good riddance to garbage.

Everything points to neglect. This was undoubtedly a case of being caught off guard. Such major accidents don't happen by coincidence.

 

[Hack-Hook]

So, you posted 2 video? Big Fking Deal.

How do you know.

A.) Perform emergency reverse can dodge the cargoship.
B.) The US ship does not do it?

If you can answer me this?



Your argument is that Fogarty lies to the senate and claim Vincennes "race" to the help of a Libyan tanker?

lol, first of all, was that an actual lies is up to debate, the fogarty report said it was a "PAKISTANI" merchant ship that was the Vincennes is helping. Not a Liberian Ship, and when I access all these accusation is a mere "Claim" that a navy source (without any reference and without naming the source) suggested that the Vincennes was in the vincinity to save a "decoy", but I cannot find any "Reference" on this "Official Navy Channel" I found, however, on the official Fogarty Report, it stated the Iranian gunboat is attacking a Pakistani Merchant ship on July 3

here are the transcript of the Fogarty report.

View attachment 407109

and second of all, the pursuit entering into Iranian Water is because of the gunboat firing at Vincennes Helicopter, that is cited as the reason as to why the ship entering Iranian Water and thus entering into the eventual flight path of Flight 655.

In Fogarty Report, it had already mentioned Captain Richard McKenna, surface warfare commander of the action group suggested he (McKenna) only gave the order for Rogers to send a helicopter to investigate, to which Rogers complies, and once the helicopter was shot at, basically the order have been countermanded and allowing a full force response.



You don't need to answer, and they didn't, and you get shot down.

When a warship ask you to Identify yourself, it's up to you to answer them, if you don't answer them, then the warship will designated you as BOGEY, and if you keep your course and enter the exclusion zone, you are then becoming a BANDIT, and the warship have the right to shoot you down. Regardless of what water you are in.

The Act of War have already been made according to the US Navy when Iranian Gunboat attack Vincennes Helicopter. That is the act that allowed Vincennes to enter Iranian Water, and that is the reason an exclusion zone is established, in fact, if you fly into the zone, the Vincennes do not actually need to ask you before they shoot you down. This has been done by ANY NAVY in the world. I mean, how would I know that which is Comair and which is Not, especially if YOU DO NOT REPLY TO MY CALL. In this case, I will think aggressively and declare you a bandit, and I will attack you if you do not answer the call.

first why the helicopter was in Iranian territorial water and also can you tell me which Pakistani ships was attacked and what it have to do with USA if Iranian boats challenging a Pakistani ship in Iranian water ?

and if its not lie then what is lie ?

The map displayed by Fogarty when he briefed Congress in September placed the Vincennes and its helicopter well clear of Iranian waters and erroneously reported the position of the Montgomery. Fogarty produced stills from the Aegis-generated map of events displayed in the Vincennes's CIC. According to three sources on board the Vincennes that day, the real map had shown Hengam Island, Iranian territory less than nine miles from the Vincennes at the time of the shoot-down. On the frames shown by Fogarty, the island was simply deleted--miraculously placing the Vincennes safely in international waters once more. Asked about the Forrestal's aircraft by inquiring lawmakers, Fogarty put them 180 miles, then 250 miles away-even though those same Aegis stills show them clearly tagged only 75 miles from the Vincennes.

Most mysteriously, Fogarty told the Senate Armed Services Committee that the Vincennes had been racing to rescue a Liberian tanker, the Stoval, that morning. There is no such tanker reported in any ship registry. According to two sources, including officer involved in the investigation, the Stoval was a decoy, a phantom conjured up by fake radio messages to lure out the Iranian gunboats. According to these sources, the Iranian aggression that Vice President Bush so vigorously decried at the United Nations had in fact been the trial run for an American sting operation.

At about 0940, the Vincennes and Elmer Montgomery crossed the 12-mile line into Iranian territorial waters. There is no mention of this crossing in the unclassified version of the official report of investigation. 11

According to the investigation report, at 0941 Captain Rogers was given permission to open fire. Note, he was now inside Iranian territorial waters and ready to engage boats that had not fired at him. 12

From the data extracted from the Vincennes ’ Aegis combat system, the Iranian gunboats did not turn toward the cruiser until 0942— after Captain Rogers had been given permission to fire. Time 0942 is the vital piece of information that destroys the myth that the Vincennes and Elmer Montgomery were under direct attack by a swarm of gunboats.
The time the Iranian gunboats turned was duly recorded by the Aegis data tapes, but it was not contained in the investigation report. Not until four years later, when Admiral William J. Crowe, U.S. Navy (Retired), the former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, testified to the House Armed Services Committee on 21 July 1992, did this significant datum come to public light. 13

From the videotape recorded on Vincennes ’ bridge that day, the gunboats, seen as mere specks in the distance, returned fire; they did not initiate the shooting. The Iranian gunboats’ light weapons were greatly outranged by the heavier ordnance on the Vincennes , and the spent shells from the Iranians’ weapons fell harmlessly as a brief line of splashes in the water, hundreds of yards short of the Vincennes , and fully 45 seconds after the Vincennes ’ first rounds were fired. 15

Admiral Fogarty's investigation accepts the testimony of console operators in the Vincennes' combat information center who said the supposed F-14 was diving. However, one officer, Lieutenant William Montford, who was standing right behind Captain Rogers and testified that he never saw indications that the aircraft was descending. At about 0951, Montford warned Captain Rogers that the contact was "possible COMAIR." 25

After the engagement, the Navy camcorder crew boarded one of the Vincennes ' launches to assess damage to the cruiser. The close-up views of the starboard side of the hull, where Captain Rogers told Admiral Fogarty’s investigators shrapnel or split bullets had struck the ship, are revealing.

Yes, there are dents and scrapes. Most look like the normal wear and tear that would result from the hull rubbing against objects pier-side. There are shallow craters in the steel, but at the deepest point, where one would expect that the strike of a bullet would leave bare metal, the paint is in pristine condition. 29

Not shell craters. Mere dents. It appears that Admiral Fogarty displayed little interest in confirming Captain Rogers’ damage report for himself. After all, the Vincennes was tied up at Bahrain during the inquiry. 30

The videotape shows more, such as the navigator on the bridge announcing to the officer of the deck that the Vincennes was crossing the 12-mile line demarcating Iran’s territorial waters en route to the open waters of the Persian Gulf after the engagement.

Indeed, the pursuit appears to have started at about 0916, when the Iranian boats were at least seven nautical miles away. 38 Visibility was four nautical miles, at best. Sitting low in the water, looking into the haze, the boats’ crews would likely have not even been aware initially of the haze-grey cruiser bearing down on them.

Representative Larry Hopkins (R, KY), questioning Admiral Crowe, asked, “Do you find any fault…with what Captain Rogers did under the circumstances?”

Admiral Crowe answered that he did not find “malperformance of a criminal nature.” 39

The subtlety of this point apparently slipped by Representative Hopkins and his colleagues, but Admiral Crowe’s remark should raise eyebrows among naval professionals. What he said, in effect, was that Captain Rogers cannot be held accountable because he was not criminally negligent. Yet under military law a commander can be held accountable for a non-criminal act—a major different from civil jurisprudence.

and here from fogarty report

No merchant vessels requested assistance and by
direction of "GS", at approximately 0411Z, USS MONTGOMERY
proceeded to the southern section of C J.

 

[jhungary]

The counter argument to that question is...

The Vicennes had the AEGIS system, the most advanced radar in the world...blah...blah...blah...

When it suits them, the AEGIS is crap, but for what happened with Iran Air Flight 655, the AEGIS can tell even which passenger had what for lunch.

lol........these people, what do you expect.

first why the helicopter was in Iranian territorial water and also can you tell me which Pakistani ships was attacked and what it have to do with USA if Iranian boats challenging a Pakistani ship in Iranian water ?

and if its not lie then what is lie ?

First, it has appeared that you have NEVER read the Fogarty Report itself, where you claim you did, you may have read someone, most probably some conspiracy nutjob, reporting or extracting on the report, but it's quite obvious to me, you had not read the actual report, and if this is not a lie, what is?

The report have basically lay out all the circumstance and if you have actually read it, you would not ask the question you just ask me. You may not believe the official Fogarty report, that's up to you, but you will not ask these question, which has already been mentioned on the actual report itself.

And also, this thread, as I said, is not about Flight 655, open one if you want to talk about it, but at the mean time, if you have nothing to contribute to Crystal and Fitzgerald crash, please do not post in this section anymore.