US scares Europe with ‘mythical’ Russian threat to justify military costs – Russian envoy to NATO

[Steve781]

In fact I concur with @MarkusS ,even if my opinion doesn't count,I have the right to say mine. (Which most of the French agree).
We do not see Russia as a threat,in fact we want to increase our ties with this country,we want to have equal relations with Russia just like with the US and everyone.
We have much to loose if we choose to make Russia "our ennemy".
It's easy for the US to tell the Europeans to put sanctions on Russia when this country hasn't (like much of European countries) Russia as one of its primary trade partner and hasn't Russia as top supplier of hydrocarbures.
Who gives a sh*t about Ukraine ?
In fact,eastern Europe is Russia's sphere of influence and background,just like Africa is to France.
I can't blame them in fact. @vostok
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@Steve781 @mike2000 is back @Atanz @Blue Marlin
Now,do you think the British military officers will send their young soldiers to die against Russia for countries they couldn't put on a map ?
@MarkusS Do you think Italian military officers will send their young soldiers to die against Russia for countries they couldn't put on a map ?
The same question can be asked to America.
I don't think they will dare to enter a full scale war that would probably turn nuclear for irrelevant countries like Latvia,Estonia and whatsoever.
There must be paranoid people thinking Russian tanks will roll over all Europe,lol.

France has the luxury of being far away from Russia though. We can't be so complacent and neither can the Baltic states, Scandinavia, Poland, Romania etc.

 

[MarkusS]

In fact I concur with @MarkusS ,even if my opinion doesn't count,I have the right to say mine. (Which most of the French agree).
We do not see Russia as a threat,in fact we want to increase our ties with this country,we want to have equal relations with Russia just like with the US and everyone.
We have much to loose if we choose to make Russia "our ennemy".
It's easy for the US to tell the Europeans to put sanctions on Russia when this country hasn't (like much of European countries) Russia as one of its primary trade partner and hasn't Russia as top supplier of hydrocarbures.
Who gives a sh*t about Ukraine ?
In fact,eastern Europe is Russia's sphere of influence and background,just like Africa is to France.
I can't blame them in fact. @vostok
-
@Steve781 @mike2000 is back @Atanz @Blue Marlin
Now,do you think the British military officers will send their young soldiers to die against Russia for countries they couldn't put on a map ?
@MarkusS Do you think Italian military officers will send their young soldiers to die against Russia for countries they couldn't put on a map ?
The same question can be asked to America.
I don't think they will dare to enter a full scale war that would probably turn nuclear for irrelevant countries like Latvia,Estonia and whatsoever.
There must be paranoid people thinking Russian tanks will roll over all Europe,lol.

100% agree. The idea that we would go to war against russia for estonia is laughable at best.

France has the luxury of being far away from Russia though. We can't be so complacent and neither can the Baltic states, Scandinavia, Poland, Romania etc.

Thats why we have this happy wheather agreement with them. If the wheather turns bad, we will head out and wish ebst of luck.

 

[Vergennes]

France has the luxury of being far away from Russia though. We can't be so complacent and neither can the Baltic states, Scandinavia, Poland, Romania etc.

None of these countries have ever helped us when we were seeking help (such as after the Paris attacks) but are begging us to deploy our troops on their soil....
I won't talk about some hypocrites buying American jets with European money....
We must maintain warm relations with the Russians and everything will be fine.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Only retarded people believe a nations future is based on "honour". If "honour" means you are ordered to jump down a cliff, i kindly refuse.

case stands that no country would go to war against russia over any nation of the baltics. The baltics know this as well.

This is about our life, future and nation. We wont throw this away for some shithole in the east.

Then she should have never voted to defend them. You keep missing the point...or ignoring it. No one is saying that Italy has to do anything. But she voted to defend that "shithole", meaning Italy does expect that "shithole's" soldiers to defend her, while you disparage them and think you shouldn't defend them.

Again, you are not telling me that Italy is sovereign. You are telling me that Italy cannot be trusted and does not honour her words or actions. Any country with self respect would withdraw from an alliance they have no intention of meeting the obligations to.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Now,do you think the British military officers will send their young soldiers to die against Russia

Yes. Yes. Yes. They would. As @mike2000 is back stated if such a eventuality arose the decision would rest with UK cabinet and the Prime Minister. I am certain beyond any doubt that UK would honour NATO charter and would follow American lead. We have recent wars like Iraq as case in point. Millions marched against the war including me. Many senior cabinet members resigned but that did not stop UK following USA into invasion of Iraq. Therefore to the specfic question that would UK send men to die if Russian tanks rolled? As long as USA was in so would UK. It's that simple.

Something people here need to note. If a aggressor knows that NATO will react to any act of aggression that prevents the possibility of war. Peace lies in leaving no ambiguity. If any doubts creap in that increases the chance of instability and war. USA provides peace through superior firepower in Europe with UK and others being supplemental. However the stability in the east hinges on Washington, London, Berlin, Ankara. The rest are tokens. As long as Russians know this - which they do, all is safe on the eastern front. @flamer84 you can sleep easy ................. !!!

 

[Desertfalcon]

Something people here need to note. If a aggressor knows that NATO will react to any act of aggression that prevents any war. Peace lies in leaving no ambiguity.

Exactly, which is why the idea that governments have voted for, taxed and supplied forces for, participate in, and depended on, an alliance they have no intention of fulfilling obligations to, has little basis in reality. Whether it's Oslo, Paris, Berlin, or Rome, those governments know that the surest way to destabilize European security and invite another disastrous world war, is to waver in their commitment to the alliance.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Oslo, Paris, Berlin, or Rome

As long as Washington, London, Paris and Berlin are in rest would follow even if they did so moaning and bi*tching while thety do so. Let's just accept the reality. The Western order hinges on Washington and London. You know the special relationship and all that. The real cement is the Anglo-Saxon powers.

That's the unedited truth.

 

[Desertfalcon]

As long as Washington, London, Paris and Berlin are in rest would follow even if they did so moaning and bi*tching while thety do so. Let's just accept the reality. The Western order hinges on Washington and London. You know the special relationship and all that. The real cement is the Anglo-Saxon powers.

I would include Berlin. NATO can exist without France, as it did in the past. It wouldn’t exist without Germany. Continental Europe today is largely of Konrad Adenauer's vision. To be fair though, there are other NATO countries that are fully committed to NATO, (Anglo-Saxons or not) and will meet all their obligations under the alliance.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I would include Berlin

Of course. I was being reductive. I would though include the German's in the Anglo-Saxon bracket. If you know your history you will be aware where they came from.

I see the modern order largely continuation of the WW2 alliance between USA and UK. The primary drivers and victors on the western flank of Europe went on to draw the post WW2 order. Thus my referance to Washington and London.

Here they are chillin and basking at their success. Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Winston Churchill

 

[Desertfalcon]

Here they are chillin and basking at their success. Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Winston Churchill

The artist forgot to add FDR's dry gin Martini and Mr. Churchill's double brandy.

 

[Armstrong]

Aaaah the Italian @MarkusS the French @Vauban and the American @Desertfalcon are fighting; now that I've pitted the French and the Italians against the Americans I'm sure I can manage to convince @Nattmara to join me in conquering Europe !

Lets see do I have any books on how you're supposed to fight a War though....

 

[Nattmara]

Aaaah the Italian @MarkusS the French @Vauban and the American @Desertfalcon are fighting; now that I've pitted the French and the Italians against the Americans I'm sure I can manage to convince @Nattmara to join me in conquering Europe !

Conquer Europe. No way! Europe's bad enough with all the Europeans ruining it!!!

And now Armstrong's entering the fray.

Prepare the vault, Olaf, we're gonna need it.

Humanity's doomed.

 

[MarkusS]

Then she should have never voted to defend them. You keep missing the point...or ignoring it. No one is saying that Italy has to do anything. But she voted to defend that "shithole", meaning Italy does expect that "shithole's" soldiers to defend her, while you disparage them and think you shouldn't defend them.

Again, you are not telling me that Italy is sovereign. You are telling me that Italy cannot be trusted and does not honour her words or actions. Any country with self respect would withdraw from an alliance they have no intention of meeting the obligations to.

lol look at our history. we switch sides faster than lindsay lohan drops her pants. the only obligation we have is for ourself. The rest is bonus.

 

[vostok]

Of course. I was being reductive. I would though include the German's in the Anglo-Saxon bracket. If you know your history you will be aware where they came from.

I see the modern order largely continuation of the WW2 alliance between USA and UK. The primary drivers and victors on the western flank of Europe went on to draw the post WW2 order. Thus my referance to Washington and London.

Here they are chillin and basking at their success. Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Winston Churchill

@Vauban I could believe in those "Agressive Russian threat" if NATO was dissolved in 1991 and re-established in 2014.

 

[James David]

Aaaah the Italian @MarkusS the French @Vauban and the American @Desertfalcon are fighting; now that I've pitted the French and the Italians against the Americans I'm sure I can manage to convince @Nattmara to join me in conquering Europe !

Lets see do I have any books on how you're supposed to fight a War though....

Oh no you dont!!! @Armstrong old buddy!!! @Nattmara will always side with us!!!