US scares Europe with ‘mythical’ Russian threat to justify military costs – Russian envoy to NATO

[MarkusS]

I hope you are wrong but as I said, if you are not, then that means Italy's actions and her word can no longer be trusted. Belonging to NATO by definition, entails automation and Italy is fully aware of that. The central principle of NATO is, "An attack against one, is an attack against all."

no, because a government must always do whats best for its people. Going at war because latvia is not best for italy and would bring nothing but bad for us. Sorry but i love life, my family and nation far too much to risk it for american adventures.

 

[Desertfalcon]

no, because a government must always do whats best for its people. Going at war because latvia is not best for italy and would bring nothing but bad for us. Sorry but i love life, my family and nation far too much to risk it for american adventures.

No one forced Italy into joining NATO. If Italy feels as you feel, fine. Then she needs to do the honourable thing and withdraw from the alliance and all it's benefits rather than lie to other members and the world about her commitment to the central principle of NATO when she has no intention of keeping her word.

 

[MarkusS]

No one forced Italy into joining NATO. If Italy feels as you feel, fine. Then she needs to do the honourable thing and withdraw from the alliance and all it's benefits rather than lie to other members and the world about her commitment to the central principle of NATO when she has no intention of keeping her word.

As you said, nobody forced us in. Nobody can force us to go to war over Lithunia or Estonia. Should that day come we will leave.

If you believe we are that idiotic to risk our beautiful nation for something like Lithunia, then you are mistaken.

What do you plan to do? Declare war against us then? Thats ridicolous.

Honour? I don´t want my leaders to think in concepts like honour. I want my leaders to do what they can to secure us a good future.

Lets face reality. NATO was good and right now is good under the given circumstances. Nobody says it will be good for us in the future.

We are a sovereign nation with excellent relations with russia.

Alot of things USA did recently did hurt our interests. Your destabilisation of Libya is the most pathetic decission in a long line of decissions. Italy had excellent relations with Gaddafi and our energy corporation ENI invested massive in Libya. We lost alot of value because of this.

As for now we still profit more than we lose. Should this change, we will divide. There is no great history between Italy and USA.

We are an old culture. Russia is an old culture. We exchanged diplomats long before your continent was named after one of our explorers Amerigo Vespucci.

 

[flamer84]

As you said, nobody forced us in. Nobody can force us to go to war over Lithunia or Estonia. Should that day come we will leave.

If you believe we are that idiotic to risk our beautiful nation for something like Lithunia, then you are mistaken.

What do you plan to do? Declare war against us then? Thats ridicolous.

Honour? I don´t want my leaders to think in concepts like honour. I want my leaders to do what they can to secure us a good future.

Lets face reality. NATO was good and right now is good under the given circumstances. Nobody says it will be good for us in the future.

We are a sovereign nation with excellent relations with russia.

Alot of things USA did recently did hurt our interests. Your destabilisation of Libya is the most pathetic decission in a long line of decissions. Italy had excellent relations with Gaddafi and our energy corporation ENI invested massive in Libya. We lost alot of value because of this.

As for now we still profit more than we lose. Should this change, we will divide. There is no great history between Italy and USA.

We are an old culture. Russia is an old culture. We exchanged diplomats long before your continent was named after one of our explorers Amerigo Vespucci.

Libya was mostly a French/Euro venture.

 

[Desertfalcon]

As you said, nobody forced us in. Nobody can force us to go to war over Lithunia or Estonia. Should that day come we will leave.

If you believe we are that idiotic to risk our beautiful nation for something like Lithunia, then you are mistaken.

Then Italy should NOT have voted to admit them to NATO which pledges Italy to their defence! You keep talking about Italy's sovereignty which I have never questioned. I'm questioning whether anyone can trust Italy's actions or her word of honour when you are telling me specifically.....one can't.

 

[MarkusS]

Libya was mostly a French/Euro venture.

We tried to stop this madness till the better end. Insiders say that Gaddafi even phoned Berlusconi at the end and Berlusconi told him: "Muammar i can´t protect you any longer"

There was a nice caricature about this...

It was like one of those parties where you go with your retarded friend and then he gets beaten up and you dont help because you dont want to be brought into connection with him...

Then Italy should NOT have voted to admit them to NATO which pledges Italy to their defence! You keep talking about Italy's sovereignty which I have never questioned. I'm questioning whether anyone can trust Italy's actions or her word of honour when you are telling me specifically.....one can't.

You seriously try to tell me Italy should step into a war with russia because Latvia? Are you fucking kidding me?

With all due respect in that case we would most likely even side with russia if the tide turns that bad. Latvia is totally irrelevant for europe.

Beside that i hear big words from you. I question your obligations as well. I doubt you would knick one finger if we were in trouble.

There is one of our marines basicly held hostage in india right now. I never heared one of your leaders try to intervene in any way. Is this your glorious NATO?

When islamists took an italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena hostage we send one of our best special agents to negotiate with the terrorists. His name was Nicola Calipari:

The americans were against this...

He was sucessful and the islamists gave Sgrena into his custody. He wanted to bring her to the airport when suddenly US troops opened fire. Calipari protected Sgrena with his body. he was killed. She did held him while he was dieing.

The americans later lied and brought up bullshit that was not even plausible. We know what happened. You did not wanted us to negotiate. Thats why you did this.

You call yourself our ally? You mrdered one of our best agents and he died as a hero.

Sorry but i have 0 trust in your country. If you say its night i would look outside and see if its really dark.

 

[Desertfalcon]

You seriously try to tell me Italy should step into a war with russia because Latvia?

No, I'm trying to tell you that that is what ITALY pledged to do when she voted to admit Latvia to NATO! What YOU are telling me is that Italy's word is no good. She has no honour and lies in her actions and commitments. She cannot be trusted. She is perfectly willing when she joined the NATO alliance to have German, or Romanian, or American, or Latvian, soldiers die for her, but when it comes time for her to meet the obligations she freely entered into, she will betray those promises and stab her fellow allies in the back.

 

[MarkusS]

No, I'm trying to tell you that that is what ITALY pledged to do when she voted to admit Latvia to NATO! What YOU are telling me is that Italy's word is no good. She has no honour and lies in her actions and commitments. She cannot be trusted. She is perfectly willing when she joined the NATO alliance to have German, or Romanian, or American, or Latvian, soldiers die for her, but when it comes time for her to meet the obligations she freely entered into, she will betray those promises and stab her fellow allies in the back.

Thats great coming from a nation whose soldiers shoot one of our most honorable agents in the back while he was rescueing an italian women from islamists.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Thats great coming from a nation whose soldiers shoot one of our most honorable agents in the back while he was rescueing an italian women from islamists.

I can totally understand your needing to deflect to another topic. That says all that is needed.

 

[Armstrong]

No, I'm trying to tell you that that is what ITALY pledged to do when she voted to admit Latvia to NATO! What YOU are telling me is that Italy's word is no good. She has no honour and lies in her actions and commitments. She cannot be trusted. She is perfectly willing when she joined the NATO alliance to have German, or Romanian, or American, or Latvian, soldiers die for her, but when it comes time for her to meet the obligations she freely entered into, she will betray those promises and stab her fellow allies in the back.

You guys should stick to your fortes !

@MarkusS make us a big one lad !

And @Desertfalcon mate ask her out !

 

[MarkusS]

I can totally understand your needing to deflect to another topic. That says all that is needed.

Only retarded people believe a nations future is based on "honour". If "honour" means you are ordered to jump down a cliff, i kindly refuse.

case stands that no country would go to war against russia over any nation of the baltics. The baltics know this as well.

This is about our life, future and nation. We wont throw this away for some shithole in the east.

 

[xenon54 out]

Only retarded people believe a nations future is based on "honour". If "honour" means you are ordered to jump down a cliff, i kindly refuse.

case stands that no country would go to war against russia over any nation of the baltics. The baltics know this as well.

This is about our life, future and nation. We wont throw this away for some shithole in the east.

It would indeed be naive to think western European countries would go to war to defend anyone, the youth here wouldnt even die for his own country let alone some country in the east.

 

[mike2000 is back]

If any country in Europe, Eastern or Western, does not see Russia as a threat, they should leave NATO, as they have no realistic threats to need to be in that alliance in the first place, and likely are just trying to leech off us so they dont have to take care of their own defence.

Agree. Only a fool will think that western european powers dont see Russia as a threat(especially Great Britain).

Any European country that doesnt see Russia as a threat(or potential one) should immediately leave NATO and be on its own(lets see how that plays out for them. Lol ). What else do they think NATO was created for?

no, because a government must always do whats best for its people. Going at war because latvia is not best for italy and would bring nothing but bad for us. Sorry but i love life, my family and nation far too much to risk it for american adventures.

Lool you are funny my good friend Markus. Since when does your opinion or that of an individual determines your country's foreign policy? Lool
You think the U.S and British government asked U.S,U.K civilians before going to war in Afghanistan, Iraq,Lybia?lool Your opinion and mine dont count one bit unfortunately.
Its only our leaders and politicians who determine our countrys foreign policy.
So yes any attack on a NATO member will trigger a war with all of NATO make no mistake about that. Its no surprise that NO SINGLE COUNTRY HAS EVER DARED INVADE/LAUNCHED AN ATTACK AGAINST ANY NATO MEMBER, NOT EVEN THE U.S.S.R at its superpower peak, much less now weakened Russia.

 

[Vergennes]

Agree. Only a fool will think that western european powers dont see Russia as a threat(especially Great Britain).

Any European country that doesnt see Russia as a threat(or potential one) should immediately leave NATO and be on its own(lets see how that plays out for them. Lol ). What else do they think NATO was created for?



Lool you are funny my good friend Markus. Since when does your opinion or that of an individual determines your country's foreign policy? Lool
You think the U.S and British government asked U.S,U.K civilians before going to war in Afghanistan, Iraq,Lybia?lool Your opinion and mine dont count one bit unfortunately.
Its only our leaders and politicians who determine our countrys foreign policy.
So yes any attack on a NATO member will trigger a war with all of NATO make no mistake about that. Its no surprise that NO SINGLE COUNTRY HAS EVER DARED INVADE/LAUNCHED AN ATTACK AGAINST ANY NATO MEMBER, NOT EVEN THE U.S.S.R at its superpower peak, much less now weakened Russia.

In fact I concur with @MarkusS ,even if my opinion doesn't count,I have the right to say mine. (Which most of the French agree).
We do not see Russia as a threat,in fact we want to increase our ties with this country,we want to have equal relations with Russia just like with the US and everyone.
We have much to loose if we choose to make Russia "our ennemy".
It's easy for the US to tell the Europeans to put sanctions on Russia when this country hasn't (like much of European countries) Russia as one of its primary trade partner and hasn't Russia as top supplier of hydrocarbures.
Who gives a sh*t about Ukraine ?
In fact,eastern Europe is Russia's sphere of influence and background,just like Africa is to France.
I can't blame them in fact. @vostok
-
@Steve781 @mike2000 is back @Atanz @Blue Marlin
Now,do you think the British military officers will send their young soldiers to die against Russia for countries they couldn't put on a map ?
@MarkusS Do you think Italian military officers will send their young soldiers to die against Russia for countries they couldn't put on a map ?
The same question can be asked to America.
I don't think they will dare to enter a full scale war that would probably turn nuclear for irrelevant countries like Latvia,Estonia and whatsoever.
There must be paranoid people thinking Russian tanks will roll over all Europe,lol.

 

[MarkusS]

Agree. Only a fool will think that western european powers dont see Russia as a threat(especially Great Britain).

Any European country that doesnt see Russia as a threat(or potential one) should immediately leave NATO and be on its own(lets see how that plays out for them. Lol ). What else do they think NATO was created for?



Lool you are funny my good friend Markus. Since when does your opinion or that of an individual determines your country's foreign policy? Lool
You think the U.S and British government asked U.S,U.K civilians before going to war in Afghanistan, Iraq,Lybia?lool Your opinion and mine dont count one bit unfortunately.
Its only our leaders and politicians who determine our countrys foreign policy.
So yes any attack on a NATO member will trigger a war with all of NATO make no mistake about that. Its no surprise that NO SINGLE COUNTRY HAS EVER DARED INVADE/LAUNCHED AN ATTACK AGAINST ANY NATO MEMBER, NOT EVEN THE U.S.S.R at its superpower peak, much less now weakened Russia.

I know my country. We have no loyality to anyone beside ourself. Before we attack any country to help someone else in an attack that could hurt us we would make Pikachu our prime minister.

So sorry to burst your bubble.