US says no to nuclear power plant to Pak

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The US does not want a strong Pakistan, in fact it wants to slowly chip away from its nuclear technology until it is no more. The leadership of Pakistan is letting them, instead of doing what is best for Pakistan's future, they keep on hopping along with the US and the west.

If the governance of Pakistan keeps doing this: I believe Pakistan will end up being a permanent post-apocalyptic wasteland trying to survive, holding on with their teeth to a rope above a cliff.

May be Iran and Pakistan should build a joint nuclear energy plant ? With China's involvement - I think it would be a great project

 

[Simorgh]

May be Iran and Pakistan should build a joint nuclear energy plant ? With China's involvement - I think it would be a great project

There are a whole lot of things Pakistan and Iran can do together. However, as you most likely already know, every deal that is made with Pakistan eventually reaches the question whether the U.S. will allow them to go through with it. Like the pipeline, the railway, etc.

Its borrowing way too much money from the IMF each year to near break even, and I think that's mostly due to the high military spending. I don't think Pakistan needs their military spending to be that high anyway. It has nothing to fear from Iran, and I doubt whether the Hindus dare attack. They're currently too far into the US created lala-land, to want to mess it all up by being crippled with nuclear explosions across India. What is currently plaguing the country is the Wahhabi Saudi mercenaries turning the country into a mess.

 

[pak-yes]

Its borrowing way too much money from the IMF each year to near break even, and I think that's mostly due to the high military spending. I don't think Pakistan needs their military spending to be that high anyway. It has nothing to fear from Iran, and I doubt whether the Hindus dare attack. They're currently too far into the US created lala-land, to want to mess it all up by being crippled with nuclear explosions across India. What is currently plaguing the country is the Wahhabi Saudi mercenaries turning the country into a mess.

Bro it's not fear from Iran you know those hindu's and Taliban they are the big trouble.

 

[Roby]

There are a whole lot of things Pakistan and Iran can do together. However, as you most likely already know, every deal that is made with Pakistan eventually reaches the question whether the U.S. will allow them to go through with it. Like the pipeline, the railway, etc.

Its borrowing way too much money from the IMF each year to near break even, and I think that's mostly due to the high military spending. I don't think Pakistan needs their military spending to be that high anyway. It has nothing to fear from Iran, and I doubt whether the Hindus dare attack. They're currently too far into the US created lala-land, to want to mess it all up by being crippled with nuclear explosions across India. What is currently plaguing the country is the Wahhabi Saudi mercenaries turning the country into a mess.

Only two weeks before I heard that Iran enriched Uranium and is able to make nuclear weapons. You currently don't have nuclear weapons as I understand. So, first make one and then talk about crippling India with nuclear explosions. Until then, what about playing peace cards, mate?

 

[Contrarian]

It has nothing to fear from Iran, and I doubt whether the Hindus dare attack. They're currently too far into the US created lala-land, to want to mess it all up by being crippled with nuclear explosions across India. What is currently plaguing the country is the Wahhabi Saudi mercenaries turning the country into a mess.

And there I was thinking that Iranians understand the concept of secularism and multi cultures. Thought they were better educated than this.

 

[TechLahore]

What deal???

This deal:

Pakistan Secures China's Help to Build 2 Nuclear Reactors - WSJ.com

Pakistan is asking for nuclear reactors from the US as a matter of principle, not as a function of need. We are getting all the reactors we want on far friendlier terms, with ToT from China, than we would from the US.

For example, in giving nuclear technology to India, the US provided a long list of requirements and demands that India had to agree to. This resulted in a great debate and much mudslinging within India. Many perceived agreement to US terms as capitulation.

Whether India capitulated to the US is not my concern. But I will tell you that China has built and is building several large reactors in Pakistan and we were never asked to sign any similar list of demands.

 

[Simorgh]

Only two weeks before I heard that Iran enriched Uranium and is able to make nuclear weapons. You currently don't have nuclear weapons as I understand. So, first make one and then talk about crippling India with nuclear explosions. Until then, what about playing peace cards, mate?

We are not interested in nuclear weapons, I was not talking about Iran. You should read my post again.

If a nuclear war erupts between Pakistan and India, the probable outcome would be that several radioactive villages are left in both countries. Hence 'India would be crippled if they attack'. India's current dreams of wanting to be 'all-that' (hence, "lala-land") makes them even more afraid of such an event.

And there I was thinking that Iranians understand the concept of secularism and multi cultures.

What does secularism have to do with this conversation? We are religious, and not just a bit if you haven't noticed. However, we believe in coexistence, multi-ethic/cultural/etc cooperation, but that has nothing to do with publically excluding religious thought from state.

Thought they were better educated than this.

Don't get me even started on the state of Indian people okay. Don't drag the discussion to things having nothing to do with this.

Education does not teach wisdom, it teaches the whats and the hows of technology. Hence a moron like Einstein, with all his 'education', advocating the creation of a nuclear bomb, pushing early development which resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands of Japanese.

 

[DMLA]

Leaving the "la-la land" and getting back to the topic at hand, we should understand that India had a need for large number of nuclear power plants. Now this "need" can be argued at length but that was the tag line of govt. of India. India has used this card in many other associated issues (such as more support at climate change forums, more business to americans, etc). This meant that there was a huge push from different people including many in congress/ industries to get the deal through.

The issue with pakistan is the absence of bargaining tool. though we all agree that taliban does make a powerful tool in this regard, the americans (atleast as far their understanding goes) are paying back enough to the pakistanis in lieu of their support on "terror campaign". On top, they throw ideas of A.Q. Khan, proliferation, China, technology, etc which are not questionable in a broad perspective. Moreover, the pakistani govt. seems to want more cash than equipment. Reasons could be many ofcourse!

Coming to the issue of requirement. With China already providing new reactors, I do not feel Pakistan needs assistance from US for reactors. Americans, russians, french, etc all specialize in huge 1000MW to ~1800MW reactors which are an overkill for pakistan at this stage. The deficit can easily be managed by other sources. I personally feel pakistan should focus on gas based power plants once the iran-pakistan deal gets through. IMO, india will stay out of the said pipeline for the foreseable future. Pakistan has the option to not only enhance generation, but also develope other industries such as fertilizers, heavy industries, etc and then market them into rest of south/ central asia. Nuclear power is not a necessity!

 

[TaimiKhan]

the americans (atleast as far their understanding goes) are paying back enough to the pakistanis in lieu of their support on "terror campaign". On top, they throw ideas of A.Q. Khan, proliferation, China, technology, etc which are not questionable in a broad perspective. Moreover, the pakistani govt. seems to want more cash than equipment. Reasons could be many ofcourse!

If you don't know about the subject at hand then don't comment like a troll. What we have suffered monetary wise is nothing compared to what US has offered. You should better Google up what the cost has been to Pakistan monetary wise and economically keeping aside the human cost.

And as for proliferation record, you should better study the proliferation record of the western countries and their companies who sell equipment on black market and go unpunished. And the Indian record of Operation Smiling Budhha, is well known. SO don't lecture us, with your own stained record in the nuclear field.

Coming to the issue of requirement. With China already providing new reactors, I do not feel Pakistan needs assistance from US for reactors. Americans, russians, french, etc all specialize in huge 1000MW to ~1800MW reactors which are an overkill for pakistan at this stage.

There is no over kill even if we get a 1800MW reactor as we need them in numbers and its our future requirement. As per your suggestion of using gas, well we would be dependent on someone else, which shouldn't be there. Nuclear reactor will give us independency in case something happens to the gas supply, even a few days gas closure would give us headaches. Every available resource should be used to produce efficiently without dependency on just one source.

 

[qsaark]

Its borrowing way too much money from the IMF each year to near break even, and I think that's mostly due to the high military spending. I don't think Pakistan needs their military spending to be that high anyway.

The respective governments of Pakistan have been borrowing from IMF, IDB, WB etc not because of the high military spending, but because of the 'line losses'. Line loss as you might know is a term used for the electricity theft, where people steal electricity and get away from paying the bill. Similarly, corruption is so rampant in Pakistan that a high percentage of money borrowed for whatever the purpose ends up in the black hole of corruption. These governments (civil and military alike) tend to put all the blame on the defense spendings in the pretext of our problems with India, while hiding their incompetence on curbing the rampant corruption. Pakistan is spending on defense that is required to maintain the minimum conventional and nuclear deterrent.

 

[scrumpy]

Bro it's not fear from Iran you know those hindu's and Taliban they are the big trouble.

Ohh you mean the Muslims ??

For those who like to play with religious labels. India was created as a secular country. The meaning of this is that it doesn't subscribe to any state sponsored religion. At no point in its history was India ever a Hindu country.This is opposite to the declared policy of the Taliban who describe themselves as true Muslims.

 

[DMLA]

If you don't know about the subject at hand then don't comment like a troll. What we have suffered monetary wise is nothing compared to what US has offered. You should better Google up what the cost has been to Pakistan monetary wise and economically keeping aside the human cost.

And as for proliferation record, you should better study the proliferation record of the western countries and their companies who sell equipment on black market and go unpunished. And the Indian record of Operation Smiling Budhha, is well known. SO don't lecture us, with your own stained record in the nuclear field.



There is no over kill even if we get a 1800MW reactor as we need them in numbers and its our future requirement. As per your suggestion of using gas, well we would be dependent on someone else, which shouldn't be there. Nuclear reactor will give us independency in case something happens to the gas supply, even a few days gas closure would give us headaches. Every available resource should be used to produce efficiently without dependency on just one source.

I am not lecturing anyone! I am saying that the AMERICANS think they are pure souls and that they are paying enough to Pakistan

Have I said that I hold the same position?

Nuclear reactors will make you dependent on the west for nuclear fuel. Even china cannot sell you the same against UN/IAEA declarations.

Please look at my previous post again. I am not saying pakistan should not get a deal. I am giving the reason why USA will not be willing to give a deal!

I am a troll now.... amazing!

 

[zagahaga]

arnt we ghetting a nuclear power plant

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

There are a whole lot of things Pakistan and Iran can do together. However, as you most likely already know, every deal that is made with Pakistan eventually reaches the question whether the U.S. will allow them to go through with it. Like the pipeline, the railway, etc.

Its borrowing way too much money from the IMF each year to near break even, and I think that's mostly due to the high military spending. I don't think Pakistan needs their military spending to be that high anyway. It has nothing to fear from Iran, and I doubt whether the Hindus dare attack. They're currently too far into the US created lala-land, to want to mess it all up by being crippled with nuclear explosions across India. What is currently plaguing the country is the Wahhabi Saudi mercenaries turning the country into a mess.

I agree after we have our 300 JF17 Thunders and 100 J10 we shoudl really focus on alliances in regions mainly
iran / pakistan/ turkey / china /russia / May be Middle east if they are smart

Becasue if we think about it , if these countrie only trade with themsleves they can live quite happy enjoyable economy as a Group


Russia/Iran (Oil and Energy, Nuclear technology, Space program)
China (Industry, Silk, Nuclear technology, Electronics, Mobile phone, Laser , Space Program)
Turkey (Industry, Radars, Electronics, Communication networks,missiles)
Pakistan( Agriculture, Raw goods, Spices, Dairy, Nuclear technology, Space program)
Middle east (More oil and energy unlimited space for new cities, dates , shawarma)
Malasia (Computer , Electronics, computer chips , circuits technology)

Every thing is right here in this region with out needing to go all the way to US or Europe

 

[dbc]

But I will tell you that China has built and is building several large reactors in Pakistan and we were never asked to sign any similar list of demands.

In your opinion, the US - India nuclear deal may not be a big deal.
But it is a big deal when you consider the following:


1. China herself seeks nuclear technology and assistance from western nations like France and US to build and operate large fourth generation nuclear reactors. When the French reactors go online in 2013 it will annually generate 26 billion kilowatt-hours, to give you some perspective the Chashma Nuclear Power Plant has produced 3.57 billion kilowatt-hours since June 13 2000.

"France enjoyed cutting-edge technology and management experience, while China had great market potential in nuclear energy. The two countries had had successful nuclear energy cooperation over the past years, said Zhou Dadi, former director of the National Development and Reform Commission's Energy Research Institute"

China, France unveil biggest new energy joint venture to add momentum to ties_English_Xinhua

You should also know that Pakistan’s plans for a large Chinese 1000 MW reactor KANUPP-2 was scaled down and replaced by several smaller reactors when development of the CNP-1000 design was deferred indefinitely by China in 2007.

In early 2007, the CNP-1000 development was put on hold indefinitely, though this aborted export plans for two CNP-1000 units to Pakistan.

Nuclear Power in China | Chinese Nuclear Energy

2. China imports nuclear fuel for its reactors mainly from Australia under strict safeguards.

Australia, which has 40% of the world's known uranium deposits, sells uranium only to members of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. "These agreements establish strict safeguards, arrangements and conditions to ensure Australian uranium supplied to China, and any collaborative programmes in applications of nuclear technology, is used exclusively for peaceful purposes" - Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China to buy Australian uranium

However, if Pakistan cannot obtain exemption for Nuclear Suppliers' Group trade sanctions in order to build more nuclear power capacity and obtain more uranium in the near future, there may be no point in proceeding with this civil Fuel Complex.

Nuclear Power in Pakistan

3.

What kind of technology would India receive in return? India would be eligible to buy U.S. dual-use nuclear technology, including materials and equipment that could be used to enrich uranium or reprocess plutonium, potentially creating the material for nuclear bombs. It would also receive imported fuel for its nuclear reactors.

The U.S.-India Nuclear Deal - Council on Foreign Relations