US responsible for the Murder of Pakistani Troops - Pak Rejects NATO Probe

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Simply american and pakistani interests are not the same. Nato pretends its fighting terrorism thats the only common denominator. Americans want india to play a part in afghanistan, nato wants to use afghanistan for geo political aims, hold back china russia, intimidate and abuse iranians. None which are in pak interests. this attack was deliberate and meant pressure pakistan PA and ISI into accepting their ulterior motives that are not in Pakistans interests and fall in line with the silk road crax. It was not an isolated case and should not be seen in that light we need to see this act in lines of actions taken from and including removing mushy onwards to demonise isolate pakistan to accept american diktat in the neighbourhood

Well, in my view americans are not going to get anything from Afghanistan. How are they going to give Afghanistan in the hands of india when from the current scenario it does not seem they can free afghanistan at all. Its only going to cost them financially....

 

[JonAsad]

Behold !!! the BOT is in the building--

 

[lem34]

American lies american lies american lies American lies american lies american lies

American Lies song 9/11 Truth - YouTube

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well if you are admitting that Pakistan fired first, what did you expect in return, flowers?

Even if Pakistan troops fired first, the fault still lies with the US/NATO because:

1. Pakistan was not informed of US/NATO operations in the area, and given the timing of the operation (late night), Pakistani troops cannot be blamed for firing (if they did) at suspected militants

2. NATO/US troops on the ground (or the planners of that particular operation) were incompetent to the point that they did not realize the presence of two Pakistani posts whose location had been communicated to ISAF

3. NATO/US coordinators for the ground troops and/or air-strikes were incompetent to the point that they did not realize that they were directing air-strikes onto two Pakistani positions whose location had been communicated to ISAF

4. NATO/US ground troops/coordinaters violated ROE and called in air-strikes on Pakistani territory, when they should have FIRST checked with the Pakistani liaison officers to verify the presence of Pakistani troops in the area

5. NATO/US troops were incompetent to the point that after violating ROE and the proper process of communicating with Pakistani military authorities, they provided the wrong coordinates to Pakistan and continued the air-strikes.

That last part about the wrong coordinates is extremely puzzling - how could the air-strikes be called in on the correct coordinates, but the incorrect coordinates be provided to the Pakistani authorities?

---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 AM ----------

bloody bastard... sorry guys i dont have more suitable words for NATO and US...

Bloody bastards and murderers is fine at this point.

 

[Crypto]

The US military has admitted it bears significant responsibility for last month's air strike on the Afghan border that killed 24 Pakistani soldiers.

A statement said US and Afghan troops acted in self defence, but conceded there had been a lack of proper co-ordination with Pakistani forces.

BBC correspondents say the admission is expected to embarrass the US military.

In retaliation for the killings, Pakistan has closed its border with Afghanistan, cutting Nato supply lines.

There was no immediate response from Pakistan to the findings of the US investigation. Pakistan, a vital partner in the fight against militants in the region, has demanded a formal US apology.

'Incorrect mapping'
In the statement the US once again expressed its deepest regret for the "tragic loss of life" caused by the air strike in Mohmand tribal agency on 26 November.
"Inadequate co-ordination by US and Pakistani military officers operating through the border co-ordination centre - including our reliance on incorrect mapping information shared with the Pakistani liaison officer - resulted in a misunderstanding about the true location of Pakistani military units," it said.
"This, coupled with other gaps in information about the activities and placement of units from both sides, contributed to the tragic result."

According to a report in the Wall Street Journal with more details, US and Afghan commandos made a series of mistakes on 26 November.

They incorrectly concluded there were no Pakistani forces in the Afghan border area where the coalition was conducting an operation - which cleared the way for a Nato air strike that devastated Pakistani positions.

After the initial strike, the US compounded its mistake by providing inaccurate data to a Pakistani military representative at a border co-ordination centre, missing an opportunity to stop the fighting.

The report says the 150-man US and Afghan commando team came under attack from positions along a ridge. The team requested a show of force from the air, wrongly understanding from a radio transmission from Nato that there were no Pakistani military in the area.
Later, another mistake was made when a US military representative in eastern Afghanistan gave general co-ordinates for the fight to Pakistani representatives. They were later forwarded on incorrectly, leading the Pakistanis to conclude that the fight was almost nine miles away from its true location.

Pakistani officials have denied that their troops on the ridge opened fire first on the commandos.

Furious response
The BBC's Caroline Wyatt in Kabul says it appears that Nato officials did not inform Pakistan of the operation in advance, after fears that the Pakistani military were leaking information to insurgents.

Pakistan responded furiously to the killings of its soldiers.

As well as shutting its border with Afghanistan, which Nato relies on heavily for deliveries of fuel, ammunition and other supplies, it also refused to attend the Bonn conference on Afghanistan earlier this month.

The US government has so far refused to apologise to Pakistan for the deaths, although Washington has repeatedly expressed its condolences for the loss of life.

"Our focus now is to learn from these mistakes," the Department of Defense statement said.

"More critically, we must work to improve the level of trust between our two countries. We earnestly hope the Pakistani military will join us in bridging that gap."

BBC News - US admits mistakes over killings of Pakistan troops

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Who the FRACK is 'backtracking' now?

 

[lem34]

2. NATO/US troops on the ground (or the planners of that particular operation) were incompetent to the point that they did not realize the presence of two Pakistani posts whose location had been communicated to ISAF

3. NATO/US coordinators for the ground troops and/or air-strikes were incompetent to the point that they did not realize that they were directing air-strikes onto two Pakistani positions whose location had been communicated to ISAF

4. NATO/US ground troops/coordinaters violated ROE and called in air-strikes on Pakistani territory, when they should have FIRST checked with the Pakistani liaison officers to verify the presence of Pakistani troops in the area

5. NATO/US troops were incompetent to the point that after violating ROE and the proper process of communicating with Pakistani military authorities, they provided the wrong coordinates to Pakistan and continued the air-strikes.

That last part about the wrong coordinates is extremely puzzling - how could the air-strikes be called in on the correct coordinates, but the incorrect coordinates be provided to the Pakistani authorities?

Guys lets get past this red neck accident gung ho incompetence anuthorised act. Everything I see smacks of deliberate. Tell me historians on war as I am no expert but has there ever in history been a case of blue on blue lasting two hours??????

I mean I can imagine 2 minutes of someone firing a gun at you would be an eternity. what those poor soldiers of our must have gone through is inhumane on the part of americans

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Even if Pakistan troops fired first, the fault still lies with the US/NATO because:

1. Pakistan was not informed of US/NATO operations in the area, and given the timing of the operation (late night), Pakistani troops cannot be blamed for firing (if they did) at suspected militants

2. NATO/US troops on the ground (or the planners of that particular operation) were incompetent to the point that they did not realize the presence of two Pakistani posts whose location had been communicated to ISAF

3. NATO/US coordinators for the ground troops and/or air-strikes were incompetent to the point that they did not realize that they were directing air-strikes onto two Pakistani positions whose location had been communicated to ISAF

4. NATO/US ground troops/coordinaters violated ROE and called in air-strikes on Pakistani territory, when they should have FIRST checked with the Pakistani liaison officers to verify the presence of Pakistani troops in the area

5. NATO/US troops were incompetent to the point that after violating ROE and the proper process of communicating with Pakistani military authorities, they provided the wrong coordinates to Pakistan and continued the air-strikes.

That last part about the wrong coordinates is extremely puzzling - how could the air-strikes be called in on the correct coordinates, but the incorrect coordinates be provided to the Pakistani authorities?

---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:14 AM ----------


Bloody bastards and murderers is fine at this point.

I think another point also adds... ISPR said that during the operation the US/NATO forces were told to stop the operation but they continued it for hours...

 

[RazPaK]

LOL @ Vcheng recieving lanat and being a punching bag from every member on PDF across the board.


Anyways we all knew from day 1 what happened, so my point is what are the steps that should be taken? I never had a doubt this was a deliberate attack.

 

[Zarvan]

CNN) -- An investigation into a November airstrike that killed 24 Pakistani troops has found that "inadequate cooperation" between American and Pakistani officers and use of an incorrect mapping information were significant factors, according to a Department of Defense statement released early Thursday.

The Department of Defense scheduled a 9:30 a.m. ET news conference to share additional details.

Panetta concerned but confident about U.S. row with Pakistan

The finding is likely to further erode relations between the United States and Pakistan, which have steadily declined since a secret raid by American commandos that killed Osama bin Laden.

Pakistan's military has repeatedly insisted the November 26 airstrike near the Afghan border was deliberate, and the Pakistani government ordered the American military to vacate an air base used to launch drone strikes.

The investigation found that the U.S. forces acted in self-defense, though poor coordination between the two militaries resulted in the incident.
Joint Chiefs: U.S.-Pakistan ties 'a mess'
U.S.: Pakistan fired before strike
Pakistani family mourns soldier's death
Air attack under investigation

Pakistani military spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas called news of the report "leaks" and said his country will await the full report.

"We will respond to the formal report and not media leaks," he told CNN.

The Department of Defense said in a statement on its website, "The investigating officer found that U.S. forces, given what information they had available to them at the time, acted in self defense and with appropriate force after being fired upon.

"He also found that there was no intentional effort to target persons or places known to be part of the Pakistani military or to deliberately provide inaccurate location information to Pakistani officials."

The investigation, though, also found there was "inadequate coordination" by U.S. and Pakistani military officials operating at a border coordination center, the statement said.

Among the coordination issues identified in the investigation was a reliance by NATO forces on "incorrect mapping information shared with a Pakistani liaison officer, it said.

"This, coupled with other gaps in information about the activities and placement of units from both sides, contributed to the tragic result," the statement said.

The Defense Department said the findings of the investigation have been shared with the Pakistani and Afghan governments as well as key NATO leadership.

The Defense Department statement said the focus now is to learn from mistakes.

"More critically, we must work to improve the level of trust between our two countries. We cannot operate effectively on the border -- or in other parts of our relationship -- without addressing the fundamental trust still lacking between us. We earnestly hope the Pakistani military will join us in bridging that gap," the statement said.

In an effort to preempt the results of the investigation, the Pakistani Embassy in Washington last week invited reporters for a detailed briefing on the incident.

The Pakistani officials at the briefing argued that well-established operating procedures and an intricate system for operational information sharing were deliberately ignored, which led to the tragic incident.

American officials have told CNN that U.S. forces checked first with their Pakistani counterparts before launching the strike. Before calling in airstrikes, the U.S. forces checked with a Pakistani liaison team. They were not seeking permission -- because the airstrikes were described as a matter of self defense -- but were making sure Pakistani troops weren't in what was called a poorly marked border area, the officials said.

After that consultation, the U.S. forces believed there were no Pakistani forces nearby, which turned out not to be true.

 

[fd24]

A US MILITARY investigation has found that US and Afghan commandos mistakenly called in an air strike on Pakistani bases that killed 24 soldiers last month, according to American officials familiar to the report.
The 60-page document has not yet been released but The Daily Telegraph has been told it will say that both the United States and Pakistan must share the blame for a catalogue of communications failures.

The cross-border attack plunged relations between the two countries to a new low, provoking a round of tit-for-tat allegations about who was responsible.

However, the findings of an American investigation show that the US and Afghan forces wrongly concluded there were no Pakistani forces in the border area where the coalition was conducting an operation on Nov 26, according to US officials talking to The Wall Street Journal.

That assessment cleared the way for an air strike that destroyed two Pakistani border posts.

Pakistan responded angrily to the attack, closing its land crossings into Afghanistan to Nato supply convoys and announcing a review of all relations with Washington and Nato. American officials are still braced for diplomatic expulsions.

In the meantime Cameron Munter, the US ambassador to Islamabad, is believed to have ordered a halt to CIA drone strikes in the border areas of Pakistan as he tries to patch up relations.

As leaks emerged on Thursday, American officials were hurriedly briefing their Pakistani counterparts.

The admission of blame will likely go some way to easing anger among Islamabad’s civilian and military leadership, who have had to contend with a groundswell of anti-American sentiment.

Pakistan has sought a full apology from President Barack Obama for the strikes, while US officials have maintained the November 26 incident was a regrettable mistake.

A statement released by the Pentagon said officers had given the wrong co-ordinates to Pakistani personnel at a border co-ordination post when asking about the location of local forces.

“The investigating officer found that US forces, given what information they had available to them at the time, acted in self defence and with appropriate force after being fired upon,” it said.

“He also found that there was no intentional effort to target persons or places known to be part of the Pakistani military, or to deliberately provide inaccurate location information to Pakistani officials.”

US admits mistakes in deadly Pakistan air strike - Telegraph

Boys - when the attack started it must have been evident to even the most ignorant ramee american it was blue on blue so why the hell did the ramee continue the attack? It beggars belief they expect us to be satisfied with their explanations. Complete farce - they simply have no defense.
They said they were fired apon first - even if were - you ramee you are in our land without our permission - what did you expect? Should we greeted you with silence and bow our heads. You are a bunch of liars and on the international field have less izzath than veena malik. Shove your 60 pages where the sun dont shine and go forth and multiply with yourself.
BTW no bloody chicken either for you - d1cks. ( Sorry for outrage - had to get it off my chest - if post gets deleted at least i got it out of my system!!)

 

[VCheng]

.................
Pakistani military spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas called news of the report "leaks" and said his country will await the full report.

"We will respond to the formal report and not media leaks," he told CNN.

.............................

Now that is a smart comment! The crucial official response must be well thought out indeed.

 

[Bratva]

"It's hard to mistake these units for insurgents," said a U.S. official. "One of the gaps in this investigation is we don't know why they came under fire by the Pakistani military."

Can this official describes at midnight around 12 am, how a person can distinguish 150 group of commandos who are discreetly disguised and group of insurgents? Can this official describe did those Mission planner morons who planned this mission well? Did those ignorant planners dont know about hyper sensitivity on part of Pak army due to large group of insurgents attacking Pakistani posts from afghan side, so in order to conduct operation very near to Pak border, they had to share info with Pak army or if they dont wanted to share info, they should have fed the correct and accurate and up to date co-ordinates of Pakistani check posts to the group of 150 commandos so they should not have made any fiasco?

I totally blame this thing on those people who planned this mission and who didnt provide correct info as well as on the people who authorized the strike on Pakistani check post because despite Pakistan clearly gave the accurate co-ordinates of their check posts to Americans and while planning mission or authorizing strike, these co-ordinates didn't showed up on their database.

 

[lem34]

Come on guys please help me understand this either agree with me it was deliberate or tell me how it was not and if it was delib our reponse must be.....???????

 

[RazPaK]

Pakistan should pull out of the WoT immediately, because apparently the taliban is not an "enemy". Wtf is Joe Biden smoking? They're attacking US every day. This **** is a mess.