US plans to triple non-security aid to Pakistan in new strategy

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Why should aid for socio-economic uplift be rejected?

What conditions are being attached to the civilian component of the aid package suggested, other than maintaining democratic policies and processes?

Any conditions being proposed, from what I understand, are related to the Military aid component of US aid, under which the US legislature quite rightly wants better accountability for funds disbursed.

Now I do not support conditions that only release funds for CT related equipment and services, because then the US ignores a very important strategic component of Pakistan's regional security situation - that of maintaining a conventional deterrent against India, and in fact reduces that conventional deterrent since conventional forces are engaged elsewhere with no offset in terms of better conventional capabilities.

However, it seems that defense department and other US military officials did indeed voice that concern against ignoring Pakistan's strategic concerns. We shall have to wait and see how the new administration views the situation however.

 

[muse]

Agnostic


Why aid? Ought we not be pushing them to open their markets to our goods, to facilitate greater trade - will that not be of more benefit, not just to us but also to them? They are used to dealing with Pakistan thru carrot and stick and they do not realize all it brings them is short term advantage and long term harm, after all who thinks of people who imagine that that they can make puppets of others as friends?

 

[IceCold]

Agnostic


Why aid? Ought we not be pushing them to open their markets to our goods, to facilitate greater trade - will that not be of more benefit, not just to us but also to them? They are used to dealing with Pakistan thru carrot and stick and they do not realize all it brings them is short term advantage and long term harm, after all who thinks of people who imagine that that they can make puppets of others as friends?

I second it. If US or should i say democratics are so concerned about the economic condition of Pakistan and indeed wants to uplift it then why not in trade. This is exactly what Musharraf has been saying for so long. We do not need aid we need trade. This carrot and stick policy of the US should be rejected immediately by Pakistan. It wont bring any good rather more harm Why because for every carrot that they give to Pakistan, they will expect us to do something unbelievable otherwise they'll stop the carrot and use stick instead.

 

[Awesome]

So say no to civilian aid but say yes to military aid that goes towards importing second rate surplus sanction-prone weaponry?

Nope say no to them too.

Only say yes to trade. Trade! Not aid!

 

[Awesome]

Why should aid for socio-economic uplift be rejected?

What conditions are being attached to the civilian component of the aid package suggested, other than maintaining democratic policies and processes?

Any conditions being proposed, from what I understand, are related to the Military aid component of US aid, under which the US legislature quite rightly wants better accountability for funds disbursed.

Now I do not support conditions that only release funds for CT related equipment and services, because then the US ignores a very important strategic component of Pakistan's regional security situation - that of maintaining a conventional deterrent against India, and in fact reduces that conventional deterrent since conventional forces are engaged elsewhere with no offset in terms of better conventional capabilities.

However, it seems that defense department and other US military officials did indeed voice that concern against ignoring Pakistan's strategic concerns. We shall have to wait and see how the new administration views the situation however.

You have to see the subtext.

Once we are dependent upon this freebie, we would find it harder and harder to say WTF whenever they massacre our people.

 

[Neo]

Agnostic


Why aid? Ought we not be pushing them to open their markets to our goods, to facilitate greater trade - will that not be of more benefit, not just to us but also to them? They are used to dealing with Pakistan thru carrot and stick and they do not realize all it brings them is short term advantage and long term harm, after all who thinks of people who imagine that that they can make puppets of others as friends?

Thats exaactly what I think. Greater access to US market and enhanced travel facilities for Pakistani businessmen.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Asim and Muse,

Don't get me wrong, I am not for socio-economic aid at the expense of market access. I agree that access to markets allows for a far more productive and long term relationship (teaching someone how to fish, rather than giving them fish), and Pakistan has been trying to get that access with little success (heck, even the ROZ.s are taking forever), and we should indeed redouble our efforts in that regard, with the new adminsitration perhaps being more receptive to the idea than this one.

However, negotiations towards market access do not necessarily preclude acceptance of aid for socio-economic development. Market access by itself does not guarantee anything - we need to have the requisite industrial and economic base to take advantage of that market access, and aid packages such as this, if utilized properly, can act as a catalyst in many fields where Pakistan lags severely.

Were you aware that last year the GoP identified a large shortage in skilled labor in Pakistan? This in a country where unemployment is the buzzword. Our economic growth has exposed serious shortfalls in our human resources and infrastructure, and aid such as this invested in training and educating workers, invested in basic social infrastructure can prove extremely beneficial. So I would not say no to it, because we need it, as long as the conditions attached to it remain limited to maintaining a relatively fair democratic system.

 

[muse]

Agnostic


I do take your point - let me make this point to you, Aid will enrich on the bureaucrats their friends - it will not create a more more skilled work force - for that we need direct investment in schools and technical schools.

Whereas It is not for pakistan to redoube her efforts to obatin market access, it is for the US to open it's markets to Pakistan -- Discussions, per my understanding, have failed because US insists that all points it puts on the table must be agreed to -- what freakin planet is this?? generally when one party has difficulty agreeing, a investigation is launched to determine what the exact hurdle is and how thse hurdles can be negotiated to arrive at agreement, the American simply has refused to talk.

The problem in the Pak-US equation is not the willingness or eagernessof the Pakistanis, it is the American's arrogance and aid buys off the pakistani and hurts the American.

This whole business with the American is more trouble than it's worth.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agnostic


I do take your point - let me make this point to you, Aid will enrich on the bureaucrats their friends - it will not create a more more skilled work force - for that we need direct investment in schools and technical schools.

Point taken. Pakistan's experience with aid, mostly due to our corrupt bureaucracy and politicians, has not been very productive. However it is not a loan, and it is still worth accepting and trying so long as the conditions are not over the top.

Whereas It is not for pakistan to redoube her efforts to obatin market access, it is for the US to open it's markets to Pakistan -- Discussions, per my understanding, have failed because US insists that all points it puts on the table must be agreed to -- what freakin planet is this?? generally when one party has difficulty agreeing, a investigation is launched to determine what the exact hurdle is and how thse hurdles can be negotiated to arrive at agreement, the American simply has refused to talk.

Agreed with the above - and that is why I mentioned attempting this with the new adminsitration.

The problem in the Pak-US equation is not the willingness or eagernessof the Pakistanis, it is the American's arrogance and aid buys off the pakistani and hurts the American.

This whole business with the American is more trouble than it's worth.

Agreed here as well - there is a certain psychological component to accepting aid I suppose. Even if the conditions attached to the aid are minimal, the donor can presume to ask more and more in return and expect compliance, and the recipient feels obliged to do more and more.

 

[maqsad]

Nope say no to them too.

Only say yes to trade. Trade! Not aid!

The US is already Pakistan's largest trading partner by far. In fact the pakistani textile industry is subsidized by the US commerce department in some artificial way through a quota. I made a big rand about that in another thread too. But exactly what changes are you hoping for in the PAK-US trade relationship?

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Ideal is open up your market to them and that will ensure safety of your country since they would not like their collaborations to be demolished!

Look at China. They are sitting pretty. Too much of $ out there. So, no threat and no human rights brouhaha!