US offers its latest fighter to India

[faithfulguy]

Right attitude.. Just one comment.. Having friends is good, but dont get in the trap of replacing one friend (US) whom you are dependent on with another. You dont know what equations will emerge in 20 years, just like 20 years back you were not aware that relations with US will be what they are today...

Pakistan is actually doing well by allying themselves with China. The problem now is if India can reciprocate and ally with the US. If Indian can't, I can see Pakistan gaining more influence in the Indian Ocean region. The reason is that in not too distant future, no countries in Asia combine will be able to counter China, they all will need US help.

 

[ek_indian]

Pakistan is actually doing well by allying themselves with China. The problem now is if India can reciprocate and ally with the US. If Indian can't, I can see Pakistan gaining more influence in the Indian Ocean region. The reason is that in not too distant future, no countries in Asia combine will be able to counter China, they all will need US help.

By reading you post, it seems you assume or rather wish India will become an US ally.
Sorry dear, you sadly don't know anything about India.
BTW, India is an ally with US and Russia both with later having bigger trust. Even relation with China is not that bad as it is made out to be.

 

[faithfulguy]

1) Believe me cost is not an issue for India

2) Trials have already begun for FGFA

3) China is not aboard the FGFA program due to its shamefull "copy-guy" reputation

I think Russia would start to withheld weapon from China until China start to "trade" technology. Russia actually have not demonstrated that it can shoot down missiles in mid course. Also, Russia has no Aegis like destroyers. If China is willing to trade these tech with Russia for other tech that China is further behind, then I can see cooperation between Russia & China.

I wonder where India would turn to if this is the case?

 

[Red Dwarf]

I don't know what makes people to think Russia as inferior to China in all the department.

 

[Naradmuni]

I think Russia would start to withheld weapon from China until China start to "trade" technology. Russia actually have not demonstrated that it can shoot down missiles in mid course. Also, Russia has no Aegis like destroyers. If China is willing to trade these tech with Russia for other tech that China is further behind, then I can see cooperation between Russia & China.

China is now standing and would continue to stand on russian feet. Had'nt it been for some classy russian tech and designs, chinese weapons would have earned the same old reputation as its other manufactured items, "Use once and throw away."

 

[Invictus]

I think Russia would start to withheld weapon from China until China start to "trade" technology. Russia actually have not demonstrated that it can shoot down missiles in mid course. Also, Russia has no Aegis like destroyers. If China is willing to trade these tech with Russia for other tech that China is further behind, then I can see cooperation between Russia & China.

I wonder where India would turn to if this is the case?

China and Russia had cooperations in the past.Is that something new,or something out of the box that u r telling us??

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

It makes very good sense for the LM reps to remove any pre-conditions because they have to think about future sales of F-35 beyond the Viper.

Secondly, the real challenge is the wait list. Which is pretty long and the deliveries to first tier nations (ones which got on the program first) will not be completed before 2017. Based on that, India and others will be waiting for a while, in time for other competitors of LM to offer similar 5th gen capabilities.

Even still they would have the tech ...and for PAF we wont be able to get any such tech by that time also.

 

[sancho]

However the F-35 B can operate on all the carriers.

Yes, but they are less capable than the F35C (increased range and payload) and the B versions have no hook what makes the arrested landing deck layout of our Vikrant class carriers useless. So if we go for a bigger carrier an catapults, the C version should be the first option!

i DO AGREE THOUGH both USA GOVT is not ready to offer F35 to india and i don,t think india is ready to trust USA with such a huge order. There is stil deep mistrust on both sides

Actually, if F35 really would be available for India, that would reduce the mistrust, bceause they finally offeres the best they have and something that really makes a difference to other offers. F16IN for example is simply an upgraded old fighter, that don't stand in comparison to the other contenders.
F35 instead would mean 5. gen techs compared to 4 - 4+ gen offered by F18SH, Mig 29K, Rafale..., so I do think this would really make a difference.

 

[gogbot]

Yes, but they are less capable than the F35C (increased range and payload) and the B versions have no hook what makes the arrested landing deck layout of our Vikrant class carriers useless. So if we go for a bigger carrier an catapults, the C version should be the first option!

The B versions have STOVOL capability, i dont think they need arrest or hooks.

They can land and take of vertically.

I was only saying India can get both the B and C versions as required.

Also IAC 2 has been confirmed to have CATOBOR systems and is suggested to be 50,000 tonnes.

First indigenous aircraft carrier to be launched next year: Navy chief: India Today - Latest Breaking News from India, World, Business, Cricket, Sports, Bollywood.

 

[Roby]

UK planning to cut F 35 orders by 50%

• Defence chiefs decide UK cannot afford current plan
• Cost of 140 US-built planes has risen by £25m each

The F35 Joint Strike Fighters' price has risen from £37m each four years ago to £62m now.

Defence chiefs are preparing drastic cuts to the number of American stealth aircraft planned for the RAF and the Royal Navy's proposed new carriers, the Guardian has learned.

They will be among the first casualties, with existing squadrons of Harrier and Tornado jets, of a huge shift in military spending being considered by ministers, officials and military advisers.

As they head towards their biggest and most painful shakeup since the second world war, a consensus has emerged among the top brass that they can not afford the 140 American Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) they have been seeking.

The JSF, or F35 as it is now called, has been subject to costly delays and the estimated price has soared from £37m each four years ago to more than £62m today.

One compromise would be for the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to halve its order from 140 planes to 70.

There is also a growing view that Britain will not be able to afford to build the two large aircraft carriers, already delayed, let alone the planes due to fly from them.

"The carriers are under real threat. There will certainly be a big reduction in JSF numbers," a well-placed military source told the Guardian.

"The carriers are about more fast jets. They are very hard to justify," added a defence official, referring to a growing consensus that the RAF already has too many fast jets.

If the order was halved, it would probably be split so that there was a short take-off and vertical landing (Stovl) version for the carriers, and a conventional version based at RAF ground stations.

Among other options being considered are: downsizing the second carrier to a much cheaper platform for helicopters, marine commandos, and unmanned drones; building both carriers but selling one, perhaps to India; and equipping them with cheaper catapult-launched aircraft.

No decisions will be made until after the general election. However, there is a consensus developing in the MoD that Britain simply cannot afford existing plans to build two large carriers in a project which, if the JSF planes are included, would cost an estimated £25bn.
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So, is that the reason of LM's offer ?

 

[pagans]

Indo - US bhai bhai

India and US will ultimately come closer because of democracy. But India won't leave Russia. It would be cheating ,they helped us all through the way and we will always remember that and stand with them.

 

[karan.1970]

UK planning to cut F 35 orders by 50%


The JSF, or F35 as it is now called, has been subject to costly delays and the estimated price has soared from £37m each four years ago to more than £62m today.

Goes to show any fresh design is subject to cost and time overruns specially in such a hi tech field (aka LCA). Not comparing LCA and F 35 but just highlighting the fact. Its different if you are adapting an existing design

 

[gogbot]

UK planning to cut F 35 orders by 50%

• Defence chiefs decide UK cannot afford current plan
• Cost of 140 US-built planes has risen by £25m each

The F35 Joint Strike Fighters' price has risen from £37m each four years ago to £62m now.

Defence chiefs are preparing drastic cuts to the number of American stealth aircraft planned for the RAF and the Royal Navy's proposed new carriers, the Guardian has learned.

They will be among the first casualties, with existing squadrons of Harrier and Tornado jets, of a huge shift in military spending being considered by ministers, officials and military advisers.

As they head towards their biggest and most painful shakeup since the second world war, a consensus has emerged among the top brass that they can not afford the 140 American Joint Strike Fighters (JSF) they have been seeking.

The JSF, or F35 as it is now called, has been subject to costly delays and the estimated price has soared from £37m each four years ago to more than £62m today.

One compromise would be for the Ministry of Defence (MoD) to halve its order from 140 planes to 70.

There is also a growing view that Britain will not be able to afford to build the two large aircraft carriers, already delayed, let alone the planes due to fly from them.

"The carriers are under real threat. There will certainly be a big reduction in JSF numbers," a well-placed military source told the Guardian.

"The carriers are about more fast jets. They are very hard to justify," added a defence official, referring to a growing consensus that the RAF already has too many fast jets.

If the order was halved, it would probably be split so that there was a short take-off and vertical landing (Stovl) version for the carriers, and a conventional version based at RAF ground stations.

Among other options being considered are: downsizing the second carrier to a much cheaper platform for helicopters, marine commandos, and unmanned drones; building both carriers but selling one, perhaps to India; and equipping them with cheaper catapult-launched aircraft.

No decisions will be made until after the general election. However, there is a consensus developing in the MoD that Britain simply cannot afford existing plans to build two large carriers in a project which, if the JSF planes are included, would cost an estimated £25bn.
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So, is that the reason of LM's offer ?

Although i would never wish ill will upon another nation.

I would be grateful is the RN is cash starved enough to be willing to part with one of its brand new carriers.

That way we can operate two medium STOBAR 40,000 tn carriers and 2 heavy CATOBAR 50,000 tn carriers.

we might even be able to upgrade the IAC-1 to CATOBAR eventually.

Well the Navy wants 5 carriers this way they have 2 foreign and 2 indigenous. and maybe IAC-3 on order

Making up four Carrier battle groups with 45 days of endurance without supply ships.

This is just fanboy isn't it. but hey there is some truth to it.

 

[beckham]

Although i would never wish ill will upon another nation.

I would be grateful is the RN is cash starved enough to be willing to part with one of its brand new carriers.

That way we can operate two medium STOBAR 40,000 tn carriers and 2 heavy CATOBAR 50,000 tn carriers.

we might even be able to upgrade the IAC-1 to CATOBAR eventually.

Well the Navy wants 5 carriers this way they have 2 foreign and 2 indigenous. and maybe IAC-3 on order

Making up four Carrier battle groups with 45 days of endurance without supply ships.

This is just fanboy isn't it. but hey there is some truth to it.

"YOU TOOK THE WORDS RIGHT OUT OF MY HEART.........."

 

[sancho]

The B versions have STOVOL capability, i dont think they need arrest or hooks.

They can land and take of vertically.

I was only saying India can get both the B and C versions as required

Of course they don't need it to land, but the vikrant class carriers are designed with these arrested landing systems. So designing and producing the carrier with this system and buying fighters that don't need it will be a huge waste of money right?
Also as far as I understands it, F35 as well as Rafale, F18SH... are all meant for the bigger carrier (that as you said, should get catapults) and Gorshkov and Vikrant will get Mig 29Ks (maybe N-LCAs) right? So which carrier should use F35Bs?
However, I still hope for N-FGFAs for our flagship!