US offers help for next generation aircraft carrier

[BLING]

1 or 2 Nimitz can pin down Pakistan? @Hyperion care to tell him of that day when certain Pakistani aicrafts made a flypast over a certain CVN in a certain exercise meant to breach BARCAPs.

SO what is ur point ? US Aircraft Carriers are dud against Pak AirForce ... Dude Nearly 10+ Sqds of 4++ Fighter jet is a DUD against PAF's F 16s and JF 17s ? This is laughable . No need for hyperion or anyone elese to give an explanation u understand what i just said . Ok let me explain what i ment in my previous Comment ... 150 Fighter Jets 2 AC Battle Groups , INDIAN Navy Fleet, IAF from Indian Main Land , Indian Armed Force from Indian Main Land will be a more effectve force against Pakistan ffor next 5 decades atleast ..

Nothing can "pin" down the PAF's aircrafts, operational capabilities brought in by a CVN are a different matter.

AC will not anchor at Pak Ports as you think . Getting bypassed AC is not just like another task as u mentioned . certain exercise meant to breach BARCAPs. YES . But it doesnt mean they can achieve it . All Battle Groups will be prepared with many plans to counter many such threa

The Nimitz is a different beast, for a different purpose. There is no parity between the operational cost of a Nimitz and an Akula submarine or even two. Unless running the MRO on a small ariforce is your idea of cheap.

Dude did i said Operating Akula and Nimitz will be same ? I just gave an example that money dont matter when we want a Blue Water Capab ility . If one is so worried about Budget for Defence they should restrict themself with limited ambition .. This is not the case for INDIAN NAVY or India altogether . We are aspired to became a Super Power ...

1 or 2 Nimitz can pin down Pakistan? @Hyperion care to tell him of that day when certain Pakistani aicrafts made a flypast over a certain CVN in a certain exercise meant to breach BARCAPs.

SO what is ur point ? US Aircraft Carriers are dud against Pak AirForce ... Dude Nearly 10+ Sqds of 4++ Fighter jet is a DUD against PAF's F 16s and JF 17s ? This is laughable . No need for hyperion or anyone elese to give an explanation u understand what i just said . Ok let me explain what i ment in my previous Comment ... 150 Fighter Jets 2 AC Battle Groups , INDIAN Navy Fleet, IAF from Indian Main Land , Indian Armed Force from Indian Main Land will be a more effectve force against Pakistan ffor next 5 decades atleast ..

Nothing can "pin" down the PAF's aircrafts, operational capabilities brought in by a CVN are a different matter.

AC will not anchor at Pak Ports as you think . Getting bypassed AC is not just like another task as u mentioned . certain exercise meant to breach BARCAPs. YES . But it doesnt mean they can achieve it . All Battle Groups will be prepared with many plans to counter many such threa

The Nimitz is a different beast, for a different purpose. There is no parity between the operational cost of a Nimitz and an Akula submarine or even two. Unless running the MRO on a small ariforce is your idea of cheap.

Dude did i said Operating Akula and Nimitz will be same ? I just gave an example that money dont matter when we want a Blue Water Capab ility . If one is so worried about Budget for Defence they should restrict themself with limited ambition .. This is not the case for INDIAN NAVY or India altogether . We are aspired to became a Super Power ...

 

[Hyperion]

@BLING, you didn't even get what Dilli was trying to convey.......

 

[BLING]

Ahem ahem..... that's one heck of a wish list you got on you bro!

Question: With all of them khiyali-gizmos, what are you actually trying to protect?

Bro India will have 3 Battle Groups already planned .. I just think we need 2 more Super Nuclear Powered AC to have Greater Influence and Awsome Capability .. I think India will will have 5-6 AC battle groups int he next 2 Decades ... Now its all depends upon INS VISHAL ... I love to have WISH Bro Its for Free init ?

@BLING, you didn't even get what Dilli was trying to convey.......

Oh .. My bad .. Can u expalin his pount of view ?

 

[Dillinger]

SO what is ur point ? US Aircraft Carriers are dud against Pak AirForce ... Dude Nearly 10+ Sqds of 4++ Fighter jet is a DUD against PAF's F 16s and JF 17s ? This is laughable . No need for hyperion or anyone elese to give an explanation u understand what i just said . Ok let me explain what i ment in my previous Comment ... 150 Fighter Jets 2 AC Battle Groups , INDIAN Navy Fleet, IAF from Indian Main Land , Indian Armed Force from Indian Main Land will be a more effectve force against Pakistan ffor next 5 decades atleast ..

AC will not anchor at Pak Ports as you think . Getting bypassed AC is not just like another task as u mentioned . certain exercise meant to breach BARCAPs. YES . But it doesnt mean they can achieve it . All Battle Groups will be prepared with many plans to counter many such threa

Dude did i said Operating Akula and Nimitz will be same ? I just gave an example that money dont matter when we want a Blue Water Capab ility . If one is so worried about Budget for Defence they should restrict themself with limited ambition .. This is not the case for INDIAN NAVY or India altogether . We are aspired to became a Super Power ...

Lets go over this again, One- we don't aspire to be a superpower nor will we be one for the next 3-4 decades in the least.

Two- the point is that pinning down is an inane notion. BARCAPs can be breached just as the Hornets can breach the Pakistani ADGE. On the other hand the Nimitz is preceded by an un-godly battle group. It may have escaped your attention but even our largest surface combatant will carry no more than 16 LRCMs while its counterpart in the USN carries 50 LRCM, get the picture? We cannot employ the Nimitz like the USN can nor can we employ the Vik like an American carrier either. We do not have the capacity to provide the logistics for the same. Not to mention that the Nimitz would never be up for sale in the first place. Leave that aside and the point of putting 150 fixed wing platforms to sea- even at its maximum estimated level the combat fixed wing element will not exceed even a 100 aircrafts at sea for the next two decades. The IN isn't daft for having set that as its target. Otherwise feel free to contact the VCNS and lodge your complaint with him on the matter.

So after the Pakistani C2/C4I nodes and coastal defenses and C&C assets are degraded and softened up by said salvo of LRCMs then yes the Nimitz can rain hell. Bare in mind that the Nimitz's operations will be preceded by a "wild weasel" campaign which has in the past seen the employment of more ARMs and PGMs then what the whole of the IAF possesses at the moment. We have a LONG way to go for that level of operational hellfire and brimstone employment.


Now as to where you are right- in your post about learning from the past but not being shackled by it. Showing requisite dynamism and yet being cautious- SPOT ON!

 

[S-DUCT]

@S-DUCT bro no high alt test facility likely for you. Jaa thappad maar AK ko.

Are you sure about the bolded part.?
If it is true then,i'm gonna vote BJP.The best tamacha to CONG.

 

[BLING]

@Dillinger Bro it was just my wish .... We will have 2 more AC after Vishal .. Dont ask for source . I heard it some where on PDF ...

Lets go over this again, One- we don't aspire to be a superpower nor will we be one for the next 3-4 decades in the least.

Bro we are new Blood ! New Young VIBE ! We need Super Power India ASAP . Hope am not the only one ! I cant even imagine India as a Soft Power in the Asia . May be 30 years or More . BUT WE WILL ...

the point is that pinning down is an inane notion. BARCAPs can be breached just as the Hornets can breach the Pakistani ADGE. On the other hand the Nimitz is preceded by an un-godly battle group. It may have escaped you attention but even our largest surface combatant will carry no more than 16 LRCMs while its counterpart in the USN carries 50 LRCM, get the picture?

Bro i can understand what u just said . But you too cannot come to the conclusion that PAF will have a superiority against 6 Sqdns of 4++ Gen when attacked with combined Fighter of IAF ! Look at this point of view . Its addition Fire Power From many Direction . TOTAL SUPERIORITY OVER PAK !

We do not have the capacity to provide the logistics for the same. Not to mention that the Nimitz would never be up for sale in the first place. Leave that aside and the point of putting 150 fixed wing platforms to sea- even at its maximum estimated level the combat fixed wing element will not exceed even a 100 aircrafts at sea for the next two decades. The IN isn't daft for having set that as its target. Otherwise feel free to contact the VCNS and lodge your complaint with him on the

Bro if we dont have Capacity to provide the logistics then Create one ! What is stoping (If we want to ) And i dont understand fixed wing elements will not exceed 100 aircraft " If we have Super AC like Nimitz each can have atleast 50-60 fixed with 10-15 Helo ... If am not wrong Nimitz can carry 70+ ac all together ... Still i will be dreaming about Super Bule Water INDIAN NAVY ! ! !

 

[Dillinger]

Are you sure about the bolded part.?
If it is true then,i'm gonna vote BJP.The best tamacha to CONG.

90% sure, if the alternative moves to satisfy the offset clauses wrt Panagarh come up then 100% sure- either way only a miracle can turn it around now. Waise BJP wasn't any better in this regard at least- they were the one's responsible for the Flight control logic and FBW fiasco wrt the Tejas. Koi theek thaak banda set karein is baar- warna phantein padenge.

 

[Abingdonboy]

90% sure, if the alternative moves to satisfy the offset clauses wrt Panagarh come up then 100% sure- either way only a miracle can turn it around now. Waise BJP wasn't any better in this regard at least- they were the one's responsible for the Flight control logic and FBW fiasco wrt the Tejas. Koi theek thaak banda set karein is baar- warna phantein padenge.

I think you guys give too much credit to the incumbent politicians. Defence in India is mostly neglected by the political class and things like the LCA and High altitude test facility issues will have very little involvement by politicians. Rather it is the dumba$$ technocrats/beuracrats in the MoD who seem to make a mess of so much through sheer incompetence.

To be honest I'm not willing to believe these claims by PSK wrt the High Alt test facility failure just yet. As his claims Boeing simply provided hangers and other on-base support hardware as compensation makes no sense as this sort of hardware and equipment was ALREADY part of the ORIGINAL contract for the IAF. The IAF always wanted such hangers and ground-support equipment and had ensured they were ordered in the initial order.

In fact I know for sure the work on hangers for IAF C-17s began back in early 2011 itself at Hindon AFB.

 

[Nisha]

Regardless of what we may all think and propose.....India has some serious issues with China. The issues are NOT going away regardless of the BS the CHinese media spreads from time to time to win our hearts and minds while they stab us in the back. The US of course has its own agenda but this is where it becomes mutually beneficial for both of us. While Russia may be our friend, it has gone well out of it way to arm China to the teeth and has done nothing to stop China from saber rattling the borders. Seems quite possible, the Russians and Chinese have a secret agreement in play. As long as any future conflict does not inflict major damage to India, border skirmishes seem quite possible but who knows how the end will play out.



As for the US pivot....don;t forget many other Asian countries are asking for the US help to rein in the CHinese aggression. It's not completely one sided as you may all see.

 

[Dillinger]

I think you guys give too much credit to the incumbent politicians. Defence in India is mostly neglected by the political class and things like the LCA and High altitude test facility issues will have very little involvement by politicians. Rather it is the dumba$$ technocrats/beuracrats in the MoD who seem to make a mess of so much through sheer incompetence.

To be honest I'm not willing to believe these claims by PSK wrt the High Alt test facility failure just yet. As his claims Boeing simply provided hangers and other on-base support hardware as compensation makes no sense as this sort of hardware and equipment was ALREADY part of the ORIGINAL contract for the IAF. The IAF always wanted such hangers and ground-support equipment and had ensured they were ordered in the initial order.

In fact I know for sure the work on hangers for IAF C-17s began back in early 2011 itself at Hindon AFB.

Yes but depot level MRO (or near it anyway) was not part of the deal and they may be going ahead with that at Panagarh, something he failed to mention. Ergo my 90% figure. As to the technocrats, yaara its the babus who are supposed to smooth over issues like damned land acquisition.

 

[MST]

Nice Work by Americans. This is smart Business.

They will have a sure shot order of $10-15 Billions for F 35 (with weapons) from Indian Navy if this goes through. Even if they give away EMALS for free it will still be beneficial deal for them. I have been saying this for some time but one way or the other the Americans will sell F 35 to us.

Its like giving away the Printer and charging a fortune for the Cartridge.

If it was upto me I would take it with both hands. This will give us access to cutting edge Technology in at least one area even if we end of paying a fortune for it.

 

[Dillinger]

Nice Work by Americans. This is smart Business.

They will have a sure shot order of $10-15 Billions for F 35 (with weapons) from Indian Navy if this goes through. Even if they give away EMALS for free it will still be beneficial deal for them. I have been saying this for some time but one way or the other the Americans will sell F 35 to us.

Its like giving away the Printer and charging a fortune for the Cartridge.

If it was upto me I would take it with both hands. This will give us access to cutting edge Technology in at least one area even if we end of paying a fortune for it.

Whether or not the F-35 will fly with the IN remains to be seen. "Access" to technology though will never come.

 

[Mario Kwo Mo]

We shall see what we shall see......

 

[acid rain]

Whether or not the F-35 will fly with the IN remains to be seen. "Access" to technology though will never come.

US shares a lot of tech with countries like Israel and UK, besides a number of PIO's and NRI's are in US defense industries and India has a good record in honoring intellectual property....I figure that access to advance tech will come eventually. All statements emanating out of the US point towards it.

 

[Dillinger]

US shares a lot of tech with countries like Israel and UK, besides a number of PIO's and NRI's are in US defense industries and India has a good record in honoring intellectual property....I figure that access to advance tech will come eventually. All statements emanating out of the US point towards it.

That's because the bread and butter folks refuse to understand what ToT means, consider that even the software codes for the F-35 have been denied to UK. Now for those who know what that signifies- best of luck ever modifying the interleaved modes on that radar. Israel has been told to stuff it with regard to employing their own ESM/ECM on the F-35. Turkey hasn't got access to the F-16 codes- Japan got away with it by going the Mistubishi way and employing their own radar. No one will ever hand you technology, when the do had you the know-how they will do so in a very limited manner and the IP/IR will never be yours. Once in a blue moon, in 3-4 out of a 100 projects does appreciable tech transfer occur (in India's case- the 1500s, bofors and shielding/safety measures for PWR for eg.). Otherwise access to Greenpine and being allowed to increase the TRM count didn't teach us how to fabricate our own TRMs- we had to do it ourselves in a project that began in 98- just an example.