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US nuclear submarine weak spot in bubble trail: Chinese scientists

Nan Yang

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US nuclear submarine weak spot in bubble trail: Chinese scientists

  • Extremely low frequency electromagnetic signal produced by speeding subs can be picked up by available devices, researchers say :agree:
  • The almost imperceptible bubbles could give away the position of most advanced submarines, but more research is needed :agree:

Stephen Chen in Beijing
Published: 6:00am, 14 Aug, 2023
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Researchers in China say the laws of physics could make it possible to detect nuclear-powered submarines with existing technologies. Photo: US Navy

A study published in one of China’s most respected peer-reviewed journals suggests that advanced submarines could be detected by existing technology, a development that would threaten US dominance of the oceans. :yahoo:

The US is widely believed to operate some of the most difficult to detect submarines, with sophisticated acoustic and vibration reduction systems to blend them into the background noises of the ocean. :nono:

Carl Schuster, a retired US Navy captain and former director of operations at the Pacific Command’s Joint Intelligence Centre in Hawaii, told CNN in April that “submarines are one area where the United States retains unchallenged superiority over China”.:rofl:

But the study, by researchers from the Chinese Academy of Sciences’ Fujian Institute of Research on the Structure of Matter, found an ultra-sensitive magnetic detector could pick up traces of the most advanced submarine from long distances away. :china:

The team, led by Zou Shengnan, used computer modelling to determine whether it was possible to detect the almost imperceptible bubbles produced by a nuclear-powered submarine cruising at high speed. :o:

The result :enjoy: “provides a new solution for the detection and tracking of submarines” :enjoy:, according to the paper published on August 1 by the Chinese Journal of Ship Research.

The journal is run by the China Ship Scientific Research Centre, which has a long and respected history of cutting-edge developments in ship and ocean engineering.

The researchers calculated that the extremely low frequency (ELF) signal produced by a submarine’s bubbles could be stronger than the sensitivities of advanced magnetic anomaly detectors by three to six orders of magnitude.

“The magnitudes of the induced electric field and magnetic field are ... well within the detection range of some top-notch sensors,” the paper said.

The bubbles are an inevitable consequence of the submarine’s cruising speed, which causes the water flowing around the hull to move faster as its kinetic energy increases and its potential energy – expressed as pressure – decreases.

This is because the total energy of a given system must remain constant. In the case of a fluid in motion, the sum of the kinetic energy – caused by the motion of the fluid – and the potential energy will not alter, but the balance of the two forces will shift.

When the pressure decreases sufficiently, small bubbles form on the surface of the hull as some of the water vaporises. This cavitation process is most likely to occur on areas with a sharp curvature or rough surface, which can create regions of low pressure.

As the water continues to flow around the hull, the bubbles grow bigger and move away from the surface, where the higher pressure – such as near the trailing edge of the hull – causes them to collapse violently.

This process causes turbulence and and can produce an electromagnetic signature, in a
phenomenon known as the magnetohydrodynamic (MHD) effect. The faster the turbulence, the stronger the MHD voltage will be.

According to the computer modelling results, “significant induced electric field signals can be observed around the bow, stern, and rear of the hull”, the paper said.

The electromagnetic emissions produced by the cavitation bubbles fluctuate over time, generating a distinct signal in the extremely low frequency range, from 49.94 Hz to 34.19 Hz, according to the researchers.

Though faint, ELF signals can travel great distances, thanks to their ability to penetrate the water and reach the ionosphere, where they are reflected back to the Earth’s surface. o_Oo_Oo_O

This quality is already exploited for submarine communication. China, for instance, has built the world’s largest antenna to transmit ELF signals to its submarine fleet hidden in deep waters.:china::china::china:


According to Zou and her team, their findings can “also provide a reference for the selection of electromagnetic communication frequencies for high-speed submarines”.

Traditional electromagnetic detection technologies locate and track the disturbance in the Earth’s magnetic field created by the movement through the water of a submarine, which is typically made of a ferromagnetic material like steel.

By analysing the strength and direction of the electromagnetic field, it is possible to determine the location and movement of the submarine. But traditional detection technologies are increasingly limited by the countermeasures deployed by ship designers.

These include the use of low-magnetic or non-metallic materials in the design of the submarine shell, as well as other measures to continuously reduce the electromagnetic characteristics of the vessels.

There is an urgent need for research into a new type of signal source, according to Zuo and her team, but they cautioned that there are several practical challenges to detecting the electromagnetic signals produced by submarine cavitation.

These include the disappearance of the signal when the submarine slows down or stops, as well as interference from other sources – such as naturally occurring electromagnetic noise or human-made signals.

The flow of water around a submarine can also be highly turbulent and unsteady, which can affect the formation and evolution of cavitation bubbles and the resulting electromagnetic signals.

The researchers said further research is need to better understand the complex physics behind the flow-electromagnetic coupling, to develop more accurate and reliable models for predicting these induced electromagnetic submarine signatures.
 
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Well, USA needs to escalate the war quickly before China is able to produce the tech in mass.

There are no advantages for USA if China able to detect everything.

The only solution is nuclear war.
 
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ELF detection not practical. Best way is still by array of undersea sonar sensors reason why a lot of choke points are death traps for Sub during war time.
 
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Well, USA needs to escalate the war quickly before China is able to produce the tech in mass.

There are no advantages for USA if China able to detect everything.

The only solution is nuclear war.
LOL. By the time Australia get their expensive, over budget Nuclear Submarines it will be white elephants. :rofl:
 
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Well, USA needs to escalate the war quickly before China is able to produce the tech in mass.

There are no advantages for USA if China able to detect everything.

The only solution is nuclear war.


NOT IF THE Ns IN MURICA GOT THEIR WAY.
RANSACKING AND RAVAGING AND DESTROYING CITIES IN MURICA LIKE BEDBUGS GALORE IN WHORE HOUSE

https:// t. me/retardsoftiktok/15939

Pretty soon, there won't be any retail stores left in California.


NO NEED FOR CHINA TO USE DF41s AS MURICA DESTROYED INTERNALLY AND POISON IN MURICA ALL DRAINED


FAz3.gif
 
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What a nonsense
How those Chinese scientists can differentiate between bubbles caused by a submarine or by a fish?
 
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What a nonsense
How those Chinese scientists can differentiate between bubbles caused by a submarine or by a fish?

Not to mention massive second strike capability.

One Ohio class SSBN is practically a civilization ender.

Not to mention future Columbia class SSBNs
 
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Not to mention massive second strike capability.

One Ohio class SSBN is practically a civilization ender.

Not to mention future Columbia class SSBNs
Will be nuclear war either way between US and China. The Chinese recently attacked the Philippines in the SCS with water hose. If the Chinese just fire a single bullet in theory the Philippines can invoke the US defense treaty.
 
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Will be nuclear war either way between US and China. The Chinese recently attacked the Philippines in the SCS with water hose. If the Chinese just fire a single bullet in theory the Philippines can invoke the US defense treaty.
Errr. No. The contested reefs and features are not included.
 
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Errr. No. The contested reefs and features are not included.
You don’t understand. Any armed attack on Philippines will initiate a war. I hope Ccp understands it. Otherwise Ccp can declare everything including mainland Philippines as contested. We are not in kindergarten.

“…
The United States reaffirms an armed attack on Philippine public vessels, aircraft, and armed forces—including those of its Coast Guard in the South China Sea—would invoke U.S. mutual defense commitments under Article IV of the 1951 U.S. Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty.”

 
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You don’t understand. Any armed attack on Philippines will initiate a war. I hope Ccp understands it. Otherwise Ccp can declare everything including mainland Philippines as contested. We are not in kindergarten.

“…
The United States reaffirms an armed attack on Philippine public vessels, aircraft, and armed forces—including those of its Coast Guard in the South China Sea—would invoke U.S. mutual defense commitments under Article IV of the 1951 U.S. Philippines Mutual Defense Treaty.”

It doesn't include dispute reefs and islands,
 
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It doesn't include dispute reefs and islands,
Ok well the PLA can use this loophole to attack the Philippines we will see what happens. The main issue however the Philippines is militarily too weak. Philippines army has nothing. The former president Duderte is too delusional. he hoped when abandoning the US military and instead more kneeing in Beijing would being more mercies to the Philippines. What an idiot.
 
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Ok well the PLA can use this loophole to attack the Philippines we will see what happens. The main issue however the Philippines is militarily too weak. Philippines army has nothing. The former president Duderte is too delusional. he hoped when abandoning the US military and instead more kneeing in Beijing would being more mercies to the Philippines. What an idiot.
Duderte understand US intentions better.

Before forging an alliance beware their true intentions. - Sun Tzu

US intention is China not Philippines.
 
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This is naive and quite frankly stupid thing to claim.

Just like Stealth, the issue here is NOT whether or not you can detect the acoustic signature of the craft, the issue here, as the article itself pointed out as well, is to differentiate which sound you detected is manmade and which sound is from the nature. That is the issue here.

Sonar operator like radar operator, you can hear a lot of noise but to put a tag on something, you need to be able to be able to differentiate one noise from the other, that is the hardest part. Let's use OceanGate Tragedy as an example, both P8 and sonar dropped from Canadian warship searching for the sub hear banging noise on the seafloor while searching for Tourist Submarine "OceanGate" the issue here is, by the time they heard this, in a 30 minute interval for a few hours no less, the sub had already imploded and disintegrated, there are no way those noise, while seems like man made, is from the sub.


No Submarine can be completely silent, as much as no stealth aircraft can be completely stealth, the advantage of running sub is low noise signature is you can blend into the surrounding acoustic signature, and only if you can tell from one thing to millions others under the sea and pin point that is a man-made sound, then and only then you can detect any sub, but the gist is, if you can achieve that, you can already detect everything.

As the old saying goes, the best way to hide is hide in plain sight, it's a lot harder to catch a killer if you have hundred fingerprints on the murder weapon than when it had none.
 
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