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US Navy proposing major show of force to warn China

china and russia should start massive joint naval drills
No need. Back in 2016, USA boasted they will do massive naval exercises in the South China Sea to deter our island building after the UNCLOS arbitration. In the end, PLAN did our own massive naval exercises and USA ran away with tail between legs. The result was the election of Duterte and 180 degree reversal of Philippines as well as emergence of Nguyen Phu Truong (pro-China) as undisputed leader of Vietnam. Don't be fooled by the Vietnamese diaspora living in Western countries, the ruling party of Vietnam is not that anti-China.

Thanks for the concern :)
 
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And you wonder why the Japanese will never take you seriously? They can say they raped female Chinese combatants in Nanjing.

Viet, I have to disagree with you here.

Japan does take China seriously. They have a much larger defense budget and are modernizing a very large military. Because of that and their claims on the South China Sea, Taiwan, and the Senkaku islands, Japan has to China seriously. What that means though is that Japan is getting serious. If China was not worth getting serious about, then Japan wouldn't have shifted its defense policy. One critical pillar of the shift was the passing of "collective self-defense" and the development of defense relations with countries such as Vietnam.

But taking China seriously does not mean that Japan lacks the ability to overcome the challenge. Rather, a Japan that takes China seriously will be a more powerful defense partner. Of course I recognize the want (for lack of a better word) to out talk some of these brain dead posters here. There are two winning points in a given argument. One is winning by proving superior morality. The other is proving superior might so even if the opponent is morally correct, it doesn't matter when presenting a view of "might makes right". When it comes to the argument of "might makes right" and only making the argument for the sake of winning a contest in the eyes of others to prove to be stronger rather then having a discussion to discover who is stronger regardless of the interest of the parties, then the actual strength in reality does not matter. So that's what these blockhead posters are doing. Of course your free to keep pressing against their blockheaded posts. But just stating that point because saying Japan doesn't take China seriously I think just serves to compete in this display of toughness competition.

I would also add that sometimes the general superior effectiveness of the Imperial Japanese Army over the combination of Chinese Nationalists and Communists forces still overlooks some errors in combat effectiveness, partly due to over-confidence. The over confidence came because of a combination of desire to push on and successes. Initially the fight in 1937 Shanghai was tougher than expected but upon Chinese retreat, the Japanese were quite successful in advancing and the fall on Nanking came as a major military victory. But later, even though the Imperial Japanese Army was able to make more advances, they were not able to achieve the objective of knocking out the Nationalists Chinese at Wuhan. Chinese side took greater losses and lost the city, but the Japan side still had major losses and could no longer push. It was also at this point that the Imperial Japanese Army started to use chemical weapons, likely in an effort to break the morality of the Nationalists Chinese forces to the point in which a cease fire or truce could become desirable for the Chinese. Well they didn't give up although the Naitonalist Chinese did have a very difficult time in keeping up moral and recruiting new soldiers. From the Japanese perspective, I think there could be mistakes identified in several of the battles between the fall of Nanking and the capture of Wuhan. But with that said, the Japanese were still able to maintain general control of the areas they held. One thing that help them maintain the control comes up to your other statement about rape. In the fall of Nanking in late 1937 and early 1938, cases of rape were very likely. As well as looting. This did not help with keeping control. So the Japanese forces applied stern rules to not rape and to not loot again. I can't comment how often that rule may have been broken afterwards. After all, any army made of young males in a foreign country is going to get testy with the hormones, regardless of nation they a representing. But in the general sense, the rape was identified as not constructive to Japanese efforts and so had to be prevented from happening again. With the establishment of Chinese government operated by leaders like Wang Jingwei, its probably likely that the Imperial Japanese Army, more or less, obeyed such rules to not loot and rape the Chinese under occupation again. Therefore I think it would not be honorable for the Japanese to say that they were able to rape. So that is why I disagree on your second sentence.
 
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No you should understand why Vietnam hates China. Because you hide aggression under a friendly mask. People laugh on your non-stop complaining on the Japanese. Shameless. you are clowns.
Stupid, You Vietnam hates China. It is no problem. But do not hope Jap/USA will beat China. If Jap/USA will beat China, Jap/USA will beat Vietnam too. I hope Vietnam has ability to challenge China by yourself. Don't ask Jap/USA dad:-)
 
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Is that why PLA conquered six of your provinces and slaughtered 100,000 so-called "civilians" in just 28 days? :lol:

Too bad for Vietnam. After China pushes USA out of East Asia, ethnic Chinese will be the ruling class of Vietnam again as it has been for 1000 years.

Wait did China actually rule Vietnam for 1000 years??
 
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4l-Image-Standard-Missile-6.jpg


;)

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Nothing wrong with exercises.

But both US and China need to calm down, and show restraint.

Failed intercept by Raytheon missile blamed on rocket-firing device

https://tucson.com/business/failed-...cle_fad3d8e9-8899-5126-b6f9-911278482ef4.html

And the Chinese will not be niced to fire just one missile at a carrier.

One BM is cheap. Even firing a hundred is still cheaper than a USN CVN. :enjoy:

If even intercepting one is so problematic. What makes US capable of intercepting a dozen firing at multi direction?

 
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Wait did China actually rule Vietnam for 1000 years??
Yes

If even intercepting one is so problematic. What makes US capable of intercepting a dozen firing at multi direction?
Ever heard of magic? And the power of prayers? Send me $100 for miracle seeds, plant them and in one month you will receive 10x that.!
 
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Viet, I have to disagree with you here.

Japan does take China seriously. They have a much larger defense budget and are modernizing a very large military. Because of that and their claims on the South China Sea, Taiwan, and the Senkaku islands, Japan has to China seriously. What that means though is that Japan is getting serious. If China was not worth getting serious about, then Japan wouldn't have shifted its defense policy. One critical pillar of the shift was the passing of "collective self-defense" and the development of defense relations with countries such as Vietnam.

But taking China seriously does not mean that Japan lacks the ability to overcome the challenge. Rather, a Japan that takes China seriously will be a more powerful defense partner. Of course I recognize the want (for lack of a better word) to out talk some of these brain dead posters here. There are two winning points in a given argument. One is winning by proving superior morality. The other is proving superior might so even if the opponent is morally correct, it doesn't matter when presenting a view of "might makes right". When it comes to the argument of "might makes right" and only making the argument for the sake of winning a contest in the eyes of others to prove to be stronger rather then having a discussion to discover who is stronger regardless of the interest of the parties, then the actual strength in reality does not matter. So that's what these blockhead posters are doing. Of course your free to keep pressing against their blockheaded posts. But just stating that point because saying Japan doesn't take China seriously I think just serves to compete in this display of toughness competition.

I would also add that sometimes the general superior effectiveness of the Imperial Japanese Army over the combination of Chinese Nationalists and Communists forces still overlooks some errors in combat effectiveness, partly due to over-confidence. The over confidence came because of a combination of desire to push on and successes. Initially the fight in 1937 Shanghai was tougher than expected but upon Chinese retreat, the Japanese were quite successful in advancing and the fall on Nanking came as a major military victory. But later, even though the Imperial Japanese Army was able to make more advances, they were not able to achieve the objective of knocking out the Nationalists Chinese at Wuhan. Chinese side took greater losses and lost the city, but the Japan side still had major losses and could no longer push. It was also at this point that the Imperial Japanese Army started to use chemical weapons, likely in an effort to break the morality of the Nationalists Chinese forces to the point in which a cease fire or truce could become desirable for the Chinese. Well they didn't give up although the Naitonalist Chinese did have a very difficult time in keeping up moral and recruiting new soldiers. From the Japanese perspective, I think there could be mistakes identified in several of the battles between the fall of Nanking and the capture of Wuhan. But with that said, the Japanese were still able to maintain general control of the areas they held. One thing that help them maintain the control comes up to your other statement about rape. In the fall of Nanking in late 1937 and early 1938, cases of rape were very likely. As well as looting. This did not help with keeping control. So the Japanese forces applied stern rules to not rape and to not loot again. I can't comment how often that rule may have been broken afterwards. After all, any army made of young males in a foreign country is going to get testy with the hormones, regardless of nation they a representing. But in the general sense, the rape was identified as not constructive to Japanese efforts and so had to be prevented from happening again. With the establishment of Chinese government operated by leaders like Wang Jingwei, its probably likely that the Imperial Japanese Army, more or less, obeyed such rules to not loot and rape the Chinese under occupation again. Therefore I think it would not be honorable for the Japanese to say that they were able to rape. So that is why I disagree on your second sentence.
If Chairman Mao wanted to, the Japanese would have been repulsed in Shanghai and quickly routed in Manchura in 1937. But then Mao would have been defeated by Chiang. In the end, Chairman Mao simply let two far inferior armies go to war against each other while he actually controlled the vast majority of the agrarian country and achieved full victory in 1949. Remember back in those days what is called "Shanghai" is probably something like 10 city blocks with 50,000 people. Occupying Shanghai is nothing without the surrounding countryside. Today, Shanghai is a huge metropolis with 20 million people.
 
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Viet, I have to disagree with you here.

Japan does take China seriously. They have a much larger defense budget and are modernizing a very large military. Because of that and their claims on the South China Sea, Taiwan, and the Senkaku islands, Japan has to China seriously. What that means though is that Japan is getting serious. If China was not worth getting serious about, then Japan wouldn't have shifted its defense policy. One critical pillar of the shift was the passing of "collective self-defense" and the development of defense relations with countries such as Vietnam.

But taking China seriously does not mean that Japan lacks the ability to overcome the challenge. Rather, a Japan that takes China seriously will be a more powerful defense partner. Of course I recognize the want (for lack of a better word) to out talk some of these brain dead posters here. There are two winning points in a given argument. One is winning by proving superior morality. The other is proving superior might so even if the opponent is morally correct, it doesn't matter when presenting a view of "might makes right". When it comes to the argument of "might makes right" and only making the argument for the sake of winning a contest in the eyes of others to prove to be stronger rather then having a discussion to discover who is stronger regardless of the interest of the parties, then the actual strength in reality does not matter. So that's what these blockhead posters are doing. Of course your free to keep pressing against their blockheaded posts. But just stating that point because saying Japan doesn't take China seriously I think just serves to compete in this display of toughness competition.

I would also add that sometimes the general superior effectiveness of the Imperial Japanese Army over the combination of Chinese Nationalists and Communists forces still overlooks some errors in combat effectiveness, partly due to over-confidence. The over confidence came because of a combination of desire to push on and successes. Initially the fight in 1937 Shanghai was tougher than expected but upon Chinese retreat, the Japanese were quite successful in advancing and the fall on Nanking came as a major military victory. But later, even though the Imperial Japanese Army was able to make more advances, they were not able to achieve the objective of knocking out the Nationalists Chinese at Wuhan. Chinese side took greater losses and lost the city, but the Japan side still had major losses and could no longer push. It was also at this point that the Imperial Japanese Army started to use chemical weapons, likely in an effort to break the morality of the Nationalists Chinese forces to the point in which a cease fire or truce could become desirable for the Chinese. Well they didn't give up although the Naitonalist Chinese did have a very difficult time in keeping up moral and recruiting new soldiers. From the Japanese perspective, I think there could be mistakes identified in several of the battles between the fall of Nanking and the capture of Wuhan. But with that said, the Japanese were still able to maintain general control of the areas they held. One thing that help them maintain the control comes up to your other statement about rape. In the fall of Nanking in late 1937 and early 1938, cases of rape were very likely. As well as looting. This did not help with keeping control. So the Japanese forces applied stern rules to not rape and to not loot again. I can't comment how often that rule may have been broken afterwards. After all, any army made of young males in a foreign country is going to get testy with the hormones, regardless of nation they a representing. But in the general sense, the rape was identified as not constructive to Japanese efforts and so had to be prevented from happening again. With the establishment of Chinese government operated by leaders like Wang Jingwei, its probably likely that the Imperial Japanese Army, more or less, obeyed such rules to not loot and rape the Chinese under occupation again. Therefore I think it would not be honorable for the Japanese to say that they were able to rape. So that is why I disagree on your second sentence.
What is your assessment, can Japan defend the Senkakus against the PLA assuming the US navy doesn’t intervene?
 
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What is your assessment, can Japan defend the Senkakus against the PLA assuming the US navy doesn’t intervene?

Yes I think so. Japan beefed up island defences in the southern islands by deploying reconnaissance, anti-air missiles, and anti-ship missiles on them. ASM-3 has entered production. F-35As are entering service, and Soryu subs could easily target enemy ships in the area while under protective air and sea cover.

He must think with a population of more a billion people, China might survive.

He also thinks China can nuke NYC without nuclear retaliation. He's way out there in lala land.
 
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He must think with a population of more a billion people, China might survive.
Not might survive. We shed some extra weight. USA will be reduced to only 10 million and most of those will be black people taking revenge on the surviving whites.

Yes I think so. Japan beefed up island defences in the southern islands by deploying reconnaissance, anti-air missiles, and anti-ship missiles on them. ASM-3 has entered production. F-35As are entering service, and Soryu subs could easily target enemy ships in the area while under protective air and sea cover.
LOL a country without any offensive weapons taking on China? We just drop a nuke on Tokyo and they will forget all about the Diaoyu Islands.
 
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Failed intercept by Raytheon missile blamed on rocket-firing device

https://tucson.com/business/failed-...cle_fad3d8e9-8899-5126-b6f9-911278482ef4.html

And the Chinese will not be niced to fire just one missile at a carrier.

One BM is cheap. Even firing a hundred is still cheaper than a USN CVN. :enjoy:

If even intercepting one is so problematic. What makes US capable of intercepting a dozen firing at multi direction?

The interceptor in that image (which I shared) is SM-6, and it have not failed in any test.

In fact, SM-6 have defeated DF-21D type targets in two seperate (lesser-known) tests.

An aircraft carrier won't be a stationary target in the ocean, like that stationary target in the Gobi desert (China's test). Another thing is how many TEL for DF-21D and where each is positioned. USAF have extremely sophisticated satellites to check where each is positioned and long-range standoff munition (~2500 KM range) to take them out from safe distance. And they have stealth-unmasking technologies to counter Chinese J-20 Jets (top-secret).

War with US is not a joke, my Chinese friend. It is not as simple as pressing a button, launching some DF-21D, and then you win. You risk loosing everything instead.

Sometimes I wonder whether Chinese are smart or over-confident.

I am giving you guys a favor by letting you know certain realities. I give you guys the benefit of doubt. Americans will not.
 
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The interceptor in that image (which I shared) is SM-6, and it have not failed in any test.

In fact, SM-6 have defeated DF-21D type targets in two seperate (lesser-known) tests.

An aircraft carrier won't be a stationary target in the ocean, like that stationary target in the Gobi desert (China's test). Another thing is how many TEL for DF-21D and where each is positioned. USAF have extremely sophisticated satellites to check where each is positioned and long-range standoff munition (~2500 KM) to take them out from safe distance. And they have stealth-unmasking technologies (top-secret).

War with US is not a joke, my Chinese friend. It is not as simple as pressing a button, launching some DF-21D, and then you win. You risk loosing everything instead.

Sometimes I wonder whether Chinese are smart or over-confident.

I am giving you guys a favor by letting you know certain realities. I give you guys the benefit of doubt. Americans will not.
I know you are good at selective report. DF-21D is designed to hit moving target. Given carrier is such a big target, its difficult to miss.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/here...er-killer-missiles.450083/page-2#post-8737725

Go read my post and its tested on a decommission Jiangwei frigate.


If somebody claim ASBM is some fake stuff. check it out Iran tested exercise. Mind you, this is Iran. China DF-21D will be much sophisticated and accurate against moving ships.
 
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