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US managed to betray both Turks and Kurds

Fvck these silky Yanks. Disgrace of the world. They are at loggerheads with the entire world. These Yanks live in their delusional world. Isolated and disgraced. Led by a clown who can't even run his country.

The Kurds are just cannon fodder. We will see how far they get by licking Yankee boots.
 
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I just wish them all good duck hunting the YPG.. shoot them without mercy
 
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https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-josef-olmert/the-kurds-are-betrayed-ag_b_11929624.html


Asia Ramazan Antar, a fearless 19-year-old Kurdish woman fighter was killed in Syria fighting ISIS. Many brave Kurdish fighters, men and women, are being killed these days in the slaughter fields of Syria and Iraq, being the victims of Assad’s army, the Turkish army, ISIS, Russian airstrikes, but also Western, chiefly American, betrayal. So, why any mention of Asia? What makes her such a special person, whose death is widely reported? Is it because she won the nickname of “the Kurdish Angelina Jolie,” due to her physical resemblance to the Hollywood superstar? Well, what a question... can anyone think of any reason, other than that, for the posthumous fame of the young brave Kurdish youngster? The truth is, that there are many reasons why she and her fellow martyrs deserve much bigger publicity than what they get.

Some demographic and historic context is necessary here; the Kurds are the largest single ethnic group in the Middle East NOT to have their independence. Numbering over 30 million people, carved between the countries of Iran, Turkey, Iraq and Syria, they have an obvious geopolitical problem. The Kurds say, that they “have no better friend than the mountains,” but this was relevant in the past, when the mountains provided a natural shelter to the persecuted ethnic and religious minorities of the Middle East. Not anymore in the 21st Century, and so during most of the previous century. Their legitimate claim for independent nationhood was already recognized in the 14 points of President Woodrow Wilson, but since then, their political history is one of continuous fighting to realize their rights, coupled with on-going history of being a pawn in a big game of regional and super-powers, a game which leaves them always in the sidelines, bleeding, bitter, but never abandoning their hope to have independence. They were betrayed with the establishment of Iraq in 1920 by Britain as a Sunni-Arab dominated state. They were betrayed in 1946, a year after the Kurdish Republic of Mahabad was established in Iran’s Kurdistan. They were betrayed in 1975, when the Shah of Iran and the CIA assistance to their revolt against Saddam Hussein regime was abruptly terminated when the Shah and Saddam signed the Shat Al Arab Agreement, which was five years later violated by Saddam with his invasion of Iran. They were betrayed again in the early months of 1991, following the end of the Gulf war, when Saddam vented his bloody revenge against them, much the same as he did in March 1988, when 6,000 Kurdish civilians were killed in a gas attack in Halabja. They are being betrayed again these days, when the so-called Turkish anti-ISIS attack in Northern Syria, is aimed, in the first place, against the Kurds in this part of former Syria, due to the Turkish desire to establish Cordon Sanitaire, a security zone to separate between the Kurds of Syria and Turkey. The Turks enjoy American support, and here is where the problem is.

For many months we were bombarded with the almost universally accepted mantra used by Americans of both sides of the political spectrum “help the Kurds, they are our natural allies, they are brave, they have the boots on the ground which we do not want to have in the fight against ISIS.” The last we heard these words was in the Town Hall forum just the other day. So they said. In Arabic it is called Kalam Fadi[empty words], but in the moment of truth, the Kurds were told bluntly by Secretary Kerry to abide by the Turkish demand not to cross the Euphrates. The Kurds do not like it, why will they? They are reacting, but not much is being reported about that. Few days ago Kurdish leaders started a hunger strike in Turkey, their brothers fight in Syria, and the head of the Kurdish region in Iraq, Masud Barazani, considers the option of declaring referendum leading to complete separation from Iraq and independence. All these developments are not necessarily connected, as the Kurds have a long history of internal struggles, but they are clearly indicating, that the Kurdish situation in the Middle East is a ticking bomb waiting to explode.

Here is what can be done to detonate this potential bomb and bring justice to a persecuted nation.
Turkey should stop the attacks on Kurds in Northern Syria, and get into serious talks with the Kurds about improving the situation in South East Turkey. This is as much a Turkish interest, as it is a Kurdish one. ISIS is on its way to a defeat, but a defeat to many millions of freedom-hungry Kurds is another matter altogether.The Kurds of Iraq and Syria should be allowed to hold free, democratic referendums and if the results will be a vote for complete independence, then so be it. Iran should stop its repression of 6 million Kurds, and the Kurdish issue should become part of the agenda in any discussion about violation of human rights in the Islamic Republic. The U.S. should be helpful in attaining all these goals. The Kurds should not be treated only as the brave allies to be thrown to the battle against ISIS, but also as the political allies, whose national demands should be part of any fundamental solution to the problems of Iraq and Syria.

Will all this, or even part of it, happen in the near future? Not really, and if that is the case, even the death of ‘’the Kurdish Angelina Jolie’’ will not lead to any salvation to the real Kurds. They will continue to fight, and continue to be betrayed.

Since when American puppies are your concern?
 
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FSA and SDF are terrorists to many.

I make the definition of terrorist very objectively and my definition doesn't require any post modernism shenanigans, like "your terrorist is a freedom fighter for somebody else". Only states who have a standing seat in the UN has the legitimate use of an armed organization. Other than those, every so called "non-state actor" is a terrorist organization.

My personal definition for FSA was nothing more than the definition since the day one of this entire Syrian issue. We had some really intense discussions with fellow Turkish members here as well regarding this topic.

That being said, every state has the responsibility to maintain order and peace in it's borders. I'm not a person who necessarily demand Assad to step down, neither have I believed that he should be toppled down in the first place. You can check out my messages, back from 2013 regarding this topic.

But Assad family didn't take necessary precautions to maintain order in their country. Syria became a cozy home to PKK since the organization was founded in late 1970's. They had a large so-called "training academy" in Lebanon, Bekaa Valley. They were camping and training Lebanon, then passing through Syria and attacking Turkey and returning back to Syria, then their home Lebanon. This had went on for decades and Syria did nothing to stop this. After Turkey's intense pressure Syria exiled Abdullah Öcalan, which led to the series of events that finally resulted with his capture.

FSA is a terrorist organization, true. It's not "to you" or "to me". But Assads (both father and son) failed to maintain order in their country, their attitude towards PKK was "as long as you don't touch me, I will have a blind eye on your activity". Do you know that if such an "arrangement" was between two countries, instead of one country and one terrorist organization, the country that provides the "free pass" would have been regarded as a side in war? You don't have an option to "look away". This is your territory and you are responsible for everything that is going on there. Otherwise you are not a state.

And right now, Assad has very little thing to argue regarding Turkey's actions. Because the territory that Turkish forces enter is not governed by Assad. Assad can't say "Oh Turkey can't argue my decisions, I left those places to SDF on purpose", because SDF is also a terrorist organization and you can't abandon territory to a terrorist organization. That would make you allies with that terrorist organization and gives a valid reason for 3rd party countries to attack you.

My final verdicts regarding the issue :
- SDF and FSA are both terror groups,
- Currently Syria is a failed state that can't govern it's country properly
- It is true that Turkey contributed to this ongoing chaotic situation, it was not in the best interest of Turkey and I am very critical about it
- It is also true that it would be unfair to evaluate Turkey as the sole responsible for this chaos. Literally every major power poured more gasoline in the power and Turkey was merely "one of the actors".
- Current situation is not an excuse for Syria, nor it can be regarded as a tit-for-tat move. Because since 1980's Syria "looked away" many times when PKK used it's territory to attack Turkey from their camps in Lebanon (There geographically no other way to transfer yourself from Lebanon to Turkey without passing through Syria, so there is no doubt in that). So Syria not taking action against PKK is not a new phenomenon.

Do you think am I missing something here?
 
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Russia literally wiped out Turkish villages in Latakia and u watched still doing nothing

Latakia is not Turkish territory ... try it in Antakya ( Turkish territory ) and see what will happen
 
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Since when American puppies are your concern?

Ally with US does not mean they are american puppies. As a matter fact, both Pakistan and China allied with USA during the cold war, does this mean we are american's puppies?

As a matter of fact, only those brave Kurds fought the ISIS on the ground while Iraqis or FSA fled or Turks sat on the fence, or Russians enjoy bombing ISIS from the safety of sky. They deserve their self rule, in a harsh environment, they find USA willing to support and ally with them, this does not mean they are american's puppies

This guy is still crying for terrorists. :lol:

The whole world knows who the true terrorists are, yet Turks let them freely pass the border
 
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I make the definition of terrorist very objectively and my definition doesn't require any post modernism shenanigans, like "your terrorist is a freedom fighter for somebody else". Only states who have a standing seat in the UN has the legitimate use of an armed organization. Other than those, every so called "non-state actor" is a terrorist organization.

My personal definition for FSA was nothing more than the definition since the day one of this entire Syrian issue. We had some really intense discussions with fellow Turkish members here as well regarding this topic.

That being said, every state has the responsibility to maintain order and peace in it's borders. I'm not a person who necessarily demand Assad to step down, neither have I believed that he should be toppled down in the first place. You can check out my messages, back from 2013 regarding this topic.

But Assad family didn't take necessary precautions to maintain order in their country. Syria became a cozy home to PKK since the organization was founded in late 1970's. They had a large so-called "training academy" in Lebanon, Bekaa Valley. They were camping and training Lebanon, then passing through Syria and attacking Turkey and returning back to Syria, then their home Lebanon. This had went on for decades and Syria did nothing to stop this. After Turkey's intense pressure Syria exiled Abdullah Öcalan, which led to the series of events that finally resulted with his capture.

FSA is a terrorist organization, true. It's not "to you" or "to me". But Assads (both father and son) failed to maintain order in their country, their attitude towards PKK was "as long as you don't touch me, I will have a blind eye on your activity". Do you know that if such an "arrangement" was between two countries, instead of one country and one terrorist organization, the country that provides the "free pass" would have been regarded as a side in war? You don't have an option to "look away". This is your territory and you are responsible for everything that is going on there. Otherwise you are not a state.

And right now, Assad has very little thing to argue regarding Turkey's actions. Because the territory that Turkish forces enter is not governed by Assad. Assad can't say "Oh Turkey can't argue my decisions, I left those places to SDF on purpose", because SDF is also a terrorist organization and you can't abandon territory to a terrorist organization. That would make you allies with that terrorist organization and gives a valid reason for 3rd party countries to attack you.

My final verdicts regarding the issue :
- SDF and FSA are both terror groups,
- Currently Syria is a failed state that can't govern it's country properly
- It is true that Turkey contributed to this ongoing chaotic situation, it was not in the best interest of Turkey and I am very critical about it
- It is also true that it would be unfair to evaluate Turkey as the sole responsible for this chaos. Literally every major power poured more gasoline in the power and Turkey was merely "one of the actors".
- Current situation is not an excuse for Syria, nor it can be regarded as a tit-for-tat move. Because since 1980's Syria "looked away" many times when PKK used it's territory to attack Turkey from their camps in Lebanon (There geographically no other way to transfer yourself from Lebanon to Turkey without passing through Syria, so there is no doubt in that). So Syria not taking action against PKK is not a new phenomenon.

Do you think am I missing something here?
I agree with all your final verdict points.

Actually, Syria did more than just turning a blind eye in the 80s.
 
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The whole world knows who the true terrorists are, yet Turks let them freely pass the border

I bet you classify East Turkestan Movement as a terrorist organization. It would take a special type of hypocrisy to define East Turkestan Movement as a terrorist organization and PKK and any of their offshoots as not.

Dude, we have proven ourselves many times that this is not about Kurds. It has never been, and it will never will be. In fact, our southern neighbor is Barzani for the last 12 years. True, we don't really like him. But we also don't see him as an enemy. We just look him with suspicion and watch his moves carefully but we don't go and attack him. That's a Kurdish territory as well. In fact we are doing trade with him, even exchange regular visits.

But YPG is completely associated with PKK. That's a problem for us. See, we may allow a Kurdish autonomy with certain conditions, but we would not allows PKK to evolve into a state. Whole God damn ME can burn down for that cause, I don't really care. I don't expect that much drama tough.

In fact, "Kurdish National Council" organization was formed for Syrian Kurds by Barzani and Turkey supported it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdish_National_Council

It would be too shallow to think this is about "autonomy" or "self-determination". This is about who is in charge. I have every reason to want an organization that will be in charge which doesn't have animosity towards my country.

Here is Barzani's take regarding the situation.

https://komnews.org/kurds-syria-missed-opportunity-statehood-pkk-barzani/

"Kurds in Syria have missed opportunity for statehood because of PKK"
 
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well, nobody is talking about that kurds treachery,betrayals. they are cancer of the region
 
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