US losing patience with Pakistan, says Panetta

[bouncing betty]

list also chronologically the suspects that were captured by Pakistani agents/law enforcement and handed over to the Americans without even checks and balances...they were simply handed over


i dare you to muster some courage (if any within you) to name even one of the Pakistani police/rangers that were injured in the line of duty, during firefights that erupted prior to the capture of suspects like KSM (one of many whom we handed over and are now in your custody)

do that, and then open your beak.

You throw little guys under the bus, but the big fish you protect. By the way, tell us ( and ARYAN B why KSM was wanted in the first place)

How stupid they need our help and they think they will get it by threatening us lol

Hey, these guys are blowing stuff up in PAKISTAN, too. If you're cool with that then great. Keep protecting these guys.

exactly


oh and contrary to what the Americans would think, you'd be hard pressed to find Pakistani masses either

a.) celebrating 9/11...

AH-HMMM. Have you tried punching 'Pakistanis celebrating 9/11' into your search engine ? OH, AND...


Osama bin Laden: Pakistan politicians mourn al-Qaeda leader

A group of Pakistani politicians including a former minister hijacked proceedings in parliament to offer prayers for the death of Osama bin Laden, little more than a week after he was killed in a US Navy Seal raid.


A still from a bin Laden video released by the US Department of Defense.
The al-Qaeda leader was visited in Pakistan by representatives of the Taliban. Photo: AFP

By Rob Crilly, Islamabad
Associated Press
10:56AM BST 11 May 2011

Their actions will heighten suspicions that parts of the Islamabad government or the powerful military establishment sympathised with the al-Qaeda leader, and may have sheltered him from justice.

"Bin Laden was an international figure and above all a Muslim ... I took it as my religious duty to offer prayers for him," said Maulvi Asmatullah, an independent Member of the National Assembly who led the prayers on Tuesday.

The deputy speaker of the house tried to silence the prayers, warning the MNAs that they did not have permission Mr Asmatullah was joined by two members of the Jamaat Ulema-e-Islam party, the country's biggest Islamic party which was part of the governing coalition until late 2010.

Atta-ur-Rehman, a federal minister until his party withdrew from government, was among them.

Their controversial actions underscore Pakistan's complex relationship with Islamist militants.

 

[lem34]

Hey, these guys are blowing stuff up in PAKISTAN, too. If you're cool with that then great. Keep protecting these guys.



[/COLOR]

These guys are Indian/American trained. tell me why does America tolerate so many Indian consulates in Afghanistan?? Tourist visas??

AH-HMMM. Have you tried punching 'Pakistanis celebrating 9/11' into your search engine ?

have you tried punching KKK into google??

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Pakistan ISN'T hiding the Haqannis ?

i'll be quite frank with you.....i dont know if it's due to my ignorance, but i didnt even know who the haqqanis were until 2009.

the same way i never heard about so-called Quetta Shura which strangely, we never hear about anymore....i learned these names through your officials

as far as i know, Haqqani are a tribe. Excellent fighters, very loyal amongst eachother. Like many of the Pashtun tribes, they have family members on both sides of the border.

after a decade of war and with a plethora of information online, i'd be amazed to know that you americans still dont understand how complex the border region really is.....it's very easy to criss-cross un-detected.

In 2008/09 period i believe it was, US Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS) sent delegation to Islamabad to propose electrifying and fencing the more volatile parts of the border (as a more 'humane' alternative to land mines, which are now banned by the Geneva Convention -- of which we are a signatory).

With the military's backing, the plan was approved. It was Afghans that complained and cried about it, and therefore the plan was shelved.

The Taliban ?

Afghan phenomenon.

(both of whom are killing Afghanis)

right, and less than 48 hours ago a NATO airstrike killed 18 civilians at a wedding.

They DIDN'T hide Bin Laden ?

do you have proof that the Pakistani state did that? Your own ******** at State Dept, Pentagon as well as subsequent reports (from your side) show that there is no proof of any Pakistani involvement in ''hiding'' this irrelevant and broken character

just remember not long ago he was your blue-eyed angel

How about Mumbai ?

the investigation is ongoing; however no new evidence of value has been brought forwards simply because mumbai was the biggest blessing for india since Mother Teresa

 

[illusion8]

i'll be quite frank with you.....i dont know if it's due to my ignorance, but i didnt even know who the haqqanis were until 2009.

the same way i never heard about so-called Quetta Shura which strangely, we never hear about anymore....i learned these names through your officials

as far as i know, Haqqani are a tribe. Excellent fighters, very loyal amongst eachother. Like many of the Pashtun tribes, they have family members on both sides of the border.

after a decade of war and with a plethora of information online, i'd be amazed to know that you americans still dont understand how complex the border region really is.....it's very easy to criss-cross un-detected.

In 2008/09 period i believe it was, US Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS) sent delegation to Islamabad to propose electrifying and fencing the more volatile parts of the border (as a more 'humane' alternative to land mines, which are now banned by the Geneva Convention -- of which we are a signatory).

With the military's backing, the plan was approved. It was Afghans that complained and cried about it, and therefore the plan was shelved.




Afghan phenomenon.




right, and less than 48 hours ago a NATO airstrike killed 18 civilians at a wedding.




do you have proof that the Pakistani state did that? Your own ******** at State Dept, Pentagon as well as subsequent reports (from your side) show that there is no proof of any Pakistani involvement in ''hiding'' this irrelevant and broken character

just remember not long ago he was your blue-eyed angel



the investigation is ongoing; however no new evidence of value has been brought forwards simply because mumbai was the biggest blessing for india since Mother Teresa

The investigation will be forever on going, after your FM acknowledged "non state actors" "its always the non state actors" - WHAT about the state actors? - who are excellent in deniability and acting innocent were involved in the Mumbai carnage. And what about your blue eyed boy left behind ajmal kasab?

 

[bouncing betty]

These guys are Indian/American trained. tell me why does America tolerate so many Indian consulates in Afghanistan?? Tourist visas??

More of the UN-FOUNDED, ISLAMCENTRIC CONSPIRACY MUMBO-JUMBO we've learned to expect.

have you tried punching KKK into google??

And that has WHAT to do with WHAT ? You wouldn't be trying to deflect attention away from an argument that you are LOSING BADLY, would you ?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

You throw little guys under the bus, but the big fish you protect. By the way, tell us ( and ARYAN B why KSM was wanted in the first place)

big fish or little fish, al qaeda has never been allowed to have presence in Pakistan and when they did succeed in fooling our immigration authorities (who are much better trained now) or exploiting the kindness and hospitality of Pashtuns in the north -- and WHEN their presence became known --- action was always taken

you have nothing further to say on this and are not in a position to comment further

AH-HMMM. Have you tried punching 'Pakistanis celebrating 9/11' into your search engine ? OH, AND...

including a former minister

hijacked proceedings

The deputy speaker of the house tried to silence the prayers, warning the MNAs that they did not have permission


i was in Peshawar during 9/11....saw everything start to finish (starting from the attack on tower 1). Nobody I know was celebrating. Some did say ''this is what happens when they bully the world'' but in the same sentence they'd say ''but it's wrong because innocents were killed''


i'm sure yanks mourn and rave every time Pakistanis are killed in terrorist attacks, right?



oh, and ''Betty'' one more thing:


no need for you to use green font letters to try to make a point...it doesnt make your ''point'' (if any) any bit more valid

 

[karan.1970]

If the insurgency in Afghanistan is truly being supported primarily through 'safe havens and bases' in Pakistan, then these 'bases' would have to be significant in size, and easily identified. Even if they were split up into smaller 'training camps' they would be identifiable, yet, how many times have we heard of a 'training camp of militants' being hit by a drone? It is typically a lone house or two where the alleged militants are hiding/residing.

Wouldnt these training camps be primarily full of green horns or in other words Taliban cannon fodders.. Hitting them with drones is pure wastage of resources.. The drones target suspected HVTs that interdicts the Taliban leadership in the area.. Which is mostly in comfortable quarters away from the training camps/safe houses of the taiban grunts..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

The investigation will be forever on going, after your FM acknowledged "non state actors" "its always the non state actors"

of course.....the Americans invented this term, no?

(Jundollah? )

- WHAT about the state actors?

they are ******** who wear three piece suits, tax evaders, not fit enough to run even brothel

who are excellent in deniability and acting innocent were involved in the Mumbai carnage.

you guys installed iron-fisted dictators in Chile and much of LATAM, bombed Iraq based on a pack of lies and now you want to talk to me about carnage

And what about your blue eyed boy left behind ajmal kasab?

ask the hindustanis...he's in their custody

 

[bouncing betty]

i'll be quite frank with you.....i dont know if it's due to my ignorance, but i didnt even know who the haqqanis were until 2009.

Live and learn.

the same way i never heard about so-called Quetta Shura which strangely, we never hear about anymore....i learned these names through your officials

Again, live and learn. Why do WE have to teach you stuff about what is going on in YOUR country. If you guys would be allowed (funny) to go up there in those territories, you might be better informed as to whats going on in your country. WHY AREN'T YOUR ARMY ALLOWED to go up there, anyway ?

as far as i know, Haqqani are a tribe. Excellent fighters, very loyal amongst eachother. Like many of the Pashtun tribes, they have family members on both sides of the border.

And they blow stuff up and kill people, too. Nice guys.

after a decade of war and with a plethora of information online, i'd be amazed to know that you americans still dont understand how complex the border region really is.....it's very easy to criss-cross un-detected.

So you guys have private, illegal armies that terrorize two countries, more or less on your own soil and you concede that either you can't or won't do anything about it ? WOW !!

In 2008/09 period i believe it was, US Dept. of Homeland Security (DHS) sent delegation to Islamabad to propose electrifying and fencing the more volatile parts of the border (as a more 'humane' alternative to land mines, which are now banned by the Geneva Convention -- of which we are a signatory).

With the military's backing, the plan was approved. It was Afghans that complained and cried about it, and therefore the plan was shelved.

Again, hey, it's YOUR joint these guys are blowing up. Do what you got to do.


right, and less than 48 hours ago a NATO airstrike killed 18 civilians at a wedding.

BALONY !! Funny how it's ALWAYS a wedding with tons of women and children. We've kind of seen through that B.S. a long time ago.

do you have proof that the Pakistani state did that? Your own ******** at State Dept, Pentagon as well as subsequent reports (from your side) show that there is no proof of any Pakistani involvement in ''hiding'' this irrelevant and broken character

PLEASE !! The WORLDS' MOST WANTED MAN living in the LARGEST COMPOUND in the PAKISTANI EQUIVALENT TO WEST POINT ? I was born at NIGHT, but it wasn't LAST NIGHT !

just remember not long ago he was your blue-eyed angel

Yeah, about THIRTY YEARS AGO. The THRILL was GONE, LONG AGO.

the investigation is ongoing; however no new evidence of value has been brought forwards simply because mumbai was the biggest blessing for india since Mother Teresa

See the above reference as to when I was born.

i'm sure yanks mourn and rave every time Pakistanis are killed in terrorist attacks, right?

Better yet, we're trying to KILL these guys, but your peeps are holding us back.


oh, and ''Betty'' one more thing:

no need for you to use green font letters to try to make a point...it doesnt make your ''point'' (if any) any bit more valid

I like the way it looks and I think it makes my replies easier to read when I 'commentate' in the middle of others posts. That's all.

...you guys installed iron-fisted dictators in Chile and ...

'CHILE' ??!! 'CHILE' ??!! WHO THE F^CK is talking about CHILE ?

 

[Hyperion]

Welcome to PDF, BouncingBetty! Pretty solid arguments btw, tomorrow we can shred each other (keystroke war)

 

[bouncing betty]

Welcome to PDF, BouncingBetty! Pretty solid arguments btw, tomorrow we can shred each other (keystroke war)

THANKS !! I have to do some work at my MOM's house tomorrow, but I'm sure I can fit you in somewhere.

 

[Hyperion]

THANKS !! I have to do some work at my MOM's house tomorrow, but I'm sure I can fit you in somewhere.

Mate, I regret to inform you that: After reading your comments above, provided you stay on the same trajectory, there won't be any reason for me to get into an argument with you!
Be straightforward and accept certain blunders of your successive governments. For example lets say I agree with you that we are the ones with vipers in our backyard, in such a case, would you agree to, that, you were the ones who placed them there?

If we both agree to the above - then why not start spring-cleaning from the motherland of these vipers? This will give us time to implement an efficient strategy to kill the ones in our backyard, with minimum collateral damage. Trust me, these A-Rab vipers are very hard to kill, they are even immune to time-tested methods of extermination

Later, who knows, we may even join you

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

Calling ALL reasonable Pakistani peoples:
A lot of water & some unnecessary blood has flown down the mighty Indus in the last decade. US has endured 235 years & Pakistan 65. Never have the twain had such bad blood between them. US-Pakistan relationship has had some brilliant successes and high points and now some dismal lows. The irony is that all this was NOT and need NOT be the case. Poor leadership and pettiness has been brewing on both sides. As many times in the past, election year in US has brought relief for Pakistan (circa Nixon-Kissinger ).

Couple of quick points:
Bear trap is for Soviets.
White elephant is the wrong metaphor. You want Bald Eagle Trap. Now go figure it out. Mind you the magestic Bald Eagle can see farther that anyone, has the sharpest talons, and the most awesome wingspan. S/he can fly at exceptionally high altitudes thereby avoiding landbound inconveniences-you pickin' what 'am puttin' down here? But seriously, lets move on to the heart of the matter.....

One last pointless point:- Someone earlier on bragged about Pakistan's GDP as 28th PPP. A nation of Pakistan's heft, resources, human potential should be squarely in G-20 economies right up there with Turkey and Indonesia. So presently your great nation is performing well under par, which means lost opportunity costs in BILLION$ for all Pakistanis(except the bearded ones!- oh yes them BEARDOS).

Looking past current Sec Def Panetta's indiscretions( he is second generation American Italian who grew up on a valley farm in central CA- enough said), what is going on is that Pakistan has shut down all cooperation and civil discourse with all kinds of Americans.

US white house staff( Incl. POTUS & Joe Biden)
US congress ( Republicans & Democrats)
State Department and diplomats, Ambassador, counsels, 'special envoys' and others.
DOD, Pentagon, CIA and all other Intel types.
US AID staff.
US Business and defence maufacturers. Lockheed-Martin, GE, Boeing etc.
Think tank types, DC area hangers on. Academics, Jounalists, Opinion makers.
Celebrities eg, Angelina Jolie, George bad-boy Clooney.
Oh BTW please fire your lobbyists, they are good-for-nothing.

Now I for one am trying to see things as they seem to Pakistani people. The collective wisdom percolates to;
""We in Pakistan did all that we could possibly do to help US after 2001, US failed to appreciate our efforts and sacrifices. Instead of being supportive and helpful Americans are arrogant and condescending. Instead of seeing how we needed more capacity building help, they loaded up on criticisim and rubbing in the measly few billions given to Pakistan compared to nearly half a trillion spent in Afghanistan thus far and 4.1 Billion a year due to be spent every year till 2024 (That is nearly 50 Billions). Then to rub all this in they gave Indians NSG waiver, promised much more and offered superior weapon systems than what was on offer to Pakistan. Whenever we pour our hearts out to Yanks they seem to go have a tête-à-tête with Indians-with friends like these who needs enemies like Taliban? So it must be true that US is actively trying to undermine Pakistan by telling Karzai to make out with Indians in trade and training, telling Kashmiris in India to suck it up and accept Indian occupation as a blessing, finding new ways to map out Pak Nuclear sites, .......
.....Therefore we in Pakistan must play a smart Passive-Aggressive game and tire the Americans out till they give up and go away - Like Soviets. (Did I miss anything? Please enlighten me if so..)
What is the down-side? very Little (see very amusing post by LiquidMetal), we can withstand it, they will not go that far, they can't, they never do. Can they be so mean?""

Before I state the merits and demerits of this 'High Risk Strategy' let me state the dominant American view; Pakistan is being unreasonable. Why do they not see that US means well. US is there to help Pakistan. It could be a win-win situation if Pakistan took decisive action to bring all these Islamists (specially Non-Pakistani variety) to task and make it less comfortable for them to keep hiding in Pakistan despite the fact that they are NOT indigenous to Pakistan nor do they respect Pakistani nationhood nor do they accept Paks as good muslims (Takfir). Once Pakistan & Afghanistan successfully defeat foreign fundamentalism fueled by unfetterd inflow of 'shiekh-money' then US can direct large flow of business and trade into the region and it can be a win-win-win scenario. Why are the Pakistani military, politicians, businessmen, ruling classes as well as wealthy middle one so paralysed into inaction? They can so easily snatch tremendous properity from the jaws of misery. Yet they blame everything on USA and keep puffing the pipe of surreal indifference, a laissez faire in an altered universe detached from reality as it exists outside a warm fuzzy homespun narrative. Why can we not at least agree on a lowest common denominator?

The KEY question for Pakistan is will this strategy succeed? Is it the right way forward? Or not?.....

[I will attempt to parse this conundrum next].

 

[PakiRambo]

exactly


oh and contrary to what the Americans would think, you'd be hard pressed to find Pakistani masses either

a.) celebrating 9/11

b.) mourning the loss of this guy known as OBL

have yet to meet a Pakistani who supports the two things mentioned above

 

[baqai]

that's the thing, they can continue their air campaign till infinity and they won't be able to "conquer" anything, in order to conquer they will need land forces and that exactly where they are running into trouble