US lawmakers strongly oppose weapon sales to ‘snitch’ Pakistan

[Donatello]

The day is not far when SOCOM will be roaming around Pakistani nuke facilities conducting raids and neutralizing facilities and all the bravado along with love for General Raheel will leave people in tears due to helplessness.

Highly doubt it, but okay. OBL was limited to one location. Nukes are not in one location for the exact same reason. Problem is, if there is an attack and Army officers see their nukes taken away casually by SOCOM, one or two might just get desperate. That upredictableness is something no one wants.

And just btw, where was this SOCOM when OBL ran away from Afghanistan, right when American forces were bombing like shyt?

 

[VCheng]

Highly doubt it, but okay. OBL was limited to one location. Nukes are not in one location for the exact same reason. Problem is, if there is an attack and Army officers see their nukes taken away casually by SOCOM, one or two might just get desperate. That upredictableness is something no one wants.

And just btw, where was this SOCOM when OBL ran away from Afghanistan, right when American forces were bombing like shyt?

As long as the nukes have no means to deliver them, what good are they? If such a plan were to be implemented (unlikely), the first goal would be to take out the means to deliver them.

 

[batmannow]

The point is that the seller determines the price and the buyer determines if it is worth the value of the goods being sold. Whatever price works for both is the sale price.



You may deny the link that many others see. You have your vision, others have theirs. No problem here, as far as I can tell.



So when is Pakistan saying no to the deal?

They won't say no until , the point been reached that , USA can't give any more ?
But then , god knows we would be having , what block of our thunders ?
& with some strike squadrons having Russian super strike fighters ?

We won't say no , that's where the trick is ?

but that , will make USA in a weak position , from which they can't bully us any more ?

Our power , will be that , USA can't stop it cause they knows stopping it , will make us more open & resource full ?

Highly doubt it, but okay. OBL was limited to one location. Nukes are not in one location for the exact same reason. Problem is, if there is an attack and Army officers see their nukes taken away casually by SOCOM, one or two might just get desperate. That upredictableness is something no one wants.

And just btw, where was this SOCOM when OBL ran away from Afghanistan, right when American forces were bombing like shyt?

Few peoples knows , that in case of any attack on nuclear weaponry , stratigic forces won't ask permission to fight it out , they have their line of action , & required permissions already been granted with in that procedure ?
They won't ask to any one anything , they will start fighting it ?
& general raheel or any one else ,won't be able to do anything at all ?
They will react , & they have their targets ?
Its not few dam soilders , guarding few boxes of sweets in some garrisons ?

 

[wiseone2]

As long as the nukes have no means to deliver them, what good are they? If such a plan were to be implemented (unlikely), the first goal would be to take out the means to deliver them.

i assume a sucidal crackpot can always detonate one on pakistani soil

They won't say no until , the point been reached that , USA can't give any more ?
But then , god knows we would be having , what block of our thunders ?
& with some strike squadrons having Russian super strike fighters ?

We won't say no , that's where the trick is ?

but that , will make USA in a weak position , from which they can't bully us any more ?

Our power , will be that , USA can't stop it cause they knows stopping it , will make us more open & resource full ?


Few peoples knows , that in case of any attack on nuclear weaponry , stratigic forces won't ask permission to fight it out , they have their line of action , & required permissions already been granted with in that procedure ?
They won't ask to any one anything , they will start fighting it ?
& general raheel or any one else ,won't be able to do anything at all ?
They will react , & they have their targets ?
Its not few dam soilders , guarding few boxes of sweets in some garrisons ?

you are not getting Russian super strike fighters

Please do explain what this Pakistan link, to a man born, raised and educated in America, who never visited Pakistan, whose brother was a decorated US military veteran, and who became radicalized and learned to build pipe bombs with another American, long before he met a Pakistani girl raised in Saudi Arabia, is exactly.

pakistani girl raised in saudi arabia spent five years in a pakistani madrasa

Pakistan should disengage with the US and NATO. It would be a wise step. And a wiser step would be to cultivate a strong relationship with the Russian Federation.

you are free to pursue relationship with Russia. you will find Russia a state on a permanent decline. tens of thousands of best Russian brains have left for the West. $100 oil masked the decline of Russia for the past 10 years

 

[Donatello]

As long as the nukes have no means to deliver them, what good are they? If such a plan were to be implemented (unlikely), the first goal would be to take out the means to deliver them.

You must be joking. The biggest problem with Nukes is not the delivery system. It is the Nuclear material that can be smuggled out and made into a dirty bomb. That is the worst US/European nightmare. Anyone can then carry or detonate a bomb in a western city, just for the sake of it. If psychos like ISIS got their hands on one, they surely wouldn't think twice.

And that my friend is the issue.

Imagine you have secured 119/120 nuclear materials. There is still one that needs to be accounted for. No amount of your SOCOM or DEVGRU or Delta force or anything can do about it. It could be anywhere. A sealed radioactive cannister would be like a needle in a haystack. OBL was captured because he left behind an electronic/wireless trail. A nuke could be sitting in front of you and you wouldn't know.

That is the problem. Not the delivery systems.

 

[VCheng]

You must be joking. The biggest problem with Nukes is not the delivery system. It is the Nuclear material that can be smuggled out and made into a dirty bomb. That is the worst US/European nightmare. Anyone can then carry or detonate a bomb in a western city, just for the sake of it. If psychos like ISIS got their hands on one, they surely wouldn't think twice.

And that my friend is the issue.

Imagine you have secured 119/120 nuclear materials. There is still one that needs to be accounted for. No amount of your SOCOM or DEVGRU or Delta force or anything can do about it. It could be anywhere. A sealed radioactive cannister would be like a needle in a haystack. OBL was captured because he left behind an electronic/wireless trail. A nuke could be sitting in front of you and you wouldn't know.

That is the problem. Not the delivery systems.

This is all UNLIKELY to happen at all, so why get worked up over nothing? There is no real issue here.

 

[batmannow]

i assume a sucidal crackpot can always detonate one on pakistani soil



you are not getting Russian super strike fighters



pakistani girl raised in saudi arabia spent five years in a pakistani madrasa



you are free to pursue relationship with Russia. you will find Russia a state on a permanent decline. tens of thousands of best Russian brains have left for the West. $100 oil masked the decline of Russia for the past 10 years

We will , if USA won't give us ?
I can put a link of the statement by dupty forighen minster of Russia in this regurd , which wasn't long ago ?
& BTW our thunder is flying on a Russian engine ?
& just few weeks ago we have inducted fourth of our thunders squadrons in our air inventory ?
Open your eyes , & accept the realities ?lolzz

 

[TMA]

i assume a sucidal crackpot can always detonate one on pakistani soil



you are not getting Russian super strike fighters



pakistani girl raised in saudi arabia spent five years in a pakistani madrasa



you are free to pursue relationship with Russia. you will find Russia a state on a permanent decline. tens of thousands of best Russian brains have left for the West. $100 oil masked the decline of Russia for the past 10 years

I wish to raise the awareness with compatriots of become closer to "Roman" Russian Federation. Perhaps instead of going to study in the West go to Russia and cultivate links there.
Russia is getting stronger everyday.

 

[rockstar08]

Such fearmongering is designed only to reinforce the impression that it is the noble Pak Army against the rest of the world, and only it is brave enough to stand up to evil Uncle Sam. It serves to keep the faithful in line, that is all. A favorite theme peddled at PDF, nothing more.

well Pakistani hardly believe that Army is something super natural .. cause we are not the one fighting all kind of aliens in movies LOL
as for my reply , Oscar is decent poster here .. so i was curious why he think like that ?
without calculating risks and consequences i doubt US will anything of that level Stupidity

 

[SQ8]

To what end?

Having the capability and feigned outrage over an OBL operation (that the US herself chose to leave Pakistan in the dark about, despite Pakistan having neutralized KSM and many other senior AQ operatives) is one thing, having some sort of feasible end goal as a result of the required massive military operation/s quite another.

There is no situation better than the status quo that will arise out of a US military operation on Pakistani soil that attempts to neutralize all of Pakistan's nuclear weapons infrastructure.

Salala is an example of a remote infantry border check-post with no anti-air defenses being obliterated by heavy aerial bombardment, by an ally no less, at night. It didn't require SOCOM just as any aerial bombing of Pakistan's nuclear infrastructure will not really require SOCOM unless SOCOM forces want to take casualties within the various nuclear complexes while attempting to secure them via troops on the ground.

I'm any case, given that the Pakistan military is not going to just let an all out and unprovoked military assault on Pakistan go unchallenged, any US assault on Pakistan's nuclear infrastructure will essentially be an all out war against Pakistan, that will have to neutralize the conventional military as part of the goal of securing the nuclear weapons, and what possible advantage does destroying Pakistan's military and allowing The next strongest military group (religious extremists) a path to power achieve for the US in terms of 'anti-terrorism objectives'?

Without the Pakistan Army, the Pakistani moderates have the same chance as the Shia and Yazidi in Iraq against groups like Daesh, LEJ, TTP etc.

So, again, xenophobic and anti Moozlum hate driven drivel by US commentators and troops aside, what's the US end goal from the hypothetical military operation being discussed here?

Turning Pakistan into another Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia?

To answer, I would suggest giving this a read
No Exit from Pakistan: America's Tortured Relationship with Islamabad: Daniel S. Markey: 9781107623590: Amazon.com: Books

But to sum it up, there are much more sophisticated weapon systems than the ones that ferried the SEALs over to execute OBL.
Just a sustained three day campaign by a combination of B-2s and F-22s would leave the Pakistani nuclear command paralysed and the military in utter shock.

However, just letting the Pakistani military know that the US is capable of doing that is more than enough. Essentially, if required.. US troops can operate freely under the guarantee that Pakistan's capability against India will not be touched and/or any future conflict with India will have the US pushing for ceasefire.

Even recently US lawmakers are focusing again on the tactical nuclear systems and the debate about Pakistan rages on. It is simply the white house and certain establishment senators that are keeping Pakistan in the good books for now.

What if a mad hawk like Cruz is elected? What future will that hold for Pakistan?

 

[MastanKhan]

Highly doubt it, but okay. OBL was limited to one location. Nukes are not in one location for the exact same reason. Problem is, if there is an attack and Army officers see their nukes taken away casually by SOCOM, one or two might just get desperate. That upredictableness is something no one wants.

And just btw, where was this SOCOM when OBL ran away from Afghanistan, right when American forces were bombing like shyt?

Sir,

OBL was let go out of afghanistan towards pakistan for strategic reasons. It was a trump card to be used by the americans when they wanted to.

Don't ever imagine of selling these 'white boyz' short.

Whenever you get the urge---just remember what they did to the Japanese in the 80's---the japanese still have not come out of that loss yet and may never come out either.

If you are too young to remember---in the 80's---the japanese star was rising---they were buying properties left and right in the U S---there came a time when the media started saying that the japs will own the U S---they bought all of Vegas high roller casinos----.

And then americans took the japanese to the cleaners----.

No you may bit-ch and moan for a feel good bit-ching about the U S---as I do at time----but I would be making a fool of myself----if I started believing in it as well.

Well the way lawmakers wineing it seems to be a big deal u think pak cares about 8 jets if US says No ??tell me ?pak can buy jets rom any other country if they have cash in hand ?But we promise to give guys more bussiness to save ur jobs next order will be bigger above 30 numbers .Be happy what u get now adays gone those days pisram sultan bood .

Sir,

Please stop the silly posts---. With cash in hand---the french have refuse to sell pakistan fighter aircrafts---Sweden is the same---russia may not do it either---korea would also be on the sanction list---so what aircraft are you talking about that you can buy with cash without acting like a A---hole to the seller.

You show to be 40 years old and still have not learnt that it is better to have good relationship to get equipment rather than to flaunt your money around---.

You must be joking. The biggest problem with Nukes is not the delivery system. It is the Nuclear material that can be smuggled out and made into a dirty bomb. That is the worst US/European nightmare. Anyone can then carry or detonate a bomb in a western city, just for the sake of it. If psychos like ISIS got their hands on one, they surely wouldn't think twice.

And that my friend is the issue.

Imagine you have secured 119/120 nuclear materials. There is still one that needs to be accounted for. No amount of your SOCOM or DEVGRU or Delta force or anything can do about it. It could be anywhere. A sealed radioactive cannister would be like a needle in a haystack. OBL was captured because he left behind an electronic/wireless trail. A nuke could be sitting in front of you and you wouldn't know.

That is the problem. Not the delivery systems.

Hi,

Those milstar satelites sitting above pakistan can do wonders---at sniffing them.

You are not familiar with pak nuc command and control----. There is no chance of a nuc disappearing----.

The disappearing act only happens when the military breaks down and nation breaks down like in case of russia----different nuc installations became different nations with different standards of security and some with no money to secure them.

Also---the dirty nuc does not have feet of its own---it needs to be transported by people----and all those people are under the microscope---.

So---since the breakdown of soviet union----just take a guess how many people tried to smuggle and use the dirty bomb----possibly above a 25 and below 75----and guess what happened---all of them got caught---you won't read that in the news paper---unless the reporter got there first.

 

[Donatello]

This is all UNLIKELY to happen at all, so why get worked up over nothing? There is no real issue here.

No, it is a very real scenario. Complete collapse of state control, ISIS like entity running wild in Pakistan, that would definitely warrant safe and secure custody of nuclear materials. To hell with delivery systems.

To answer, I would suggest giving this a read
No Exit from Pakistan: America's Tortured Relationship with Islamabad: Daniel S. Markey: 9781107623590: Amazon.com: Books

But to sum it up, there are much more sophisticated weapon systems than the ones that ferried the SEALs over to execute OBL.
Just a sustained three day campaign by a combination of B-2s and F-22s would leave the Pakistani nuclear command paralysed and the military in utter shock.

However, just letting the Pakistani military know that the US is capable of doing that is more than enough. Essentially, if required.. US troops can operate freely under the guarantee that Pakistan's capability against India will not be touched and/or any future conflict with India will have the US pushing for ceasefire.

Even recently US lawmakers are focusing again on the tactical nuclear systems and the debate about Pakistan rages on. It is simply the white house and certain establishment senators that are keeping Pakistan in the good books for now.

What if a mad hawk like Cruz is elected? What future will that hold for Pakistan?

Cruz, Carson or Trump (since plenty of Americans are actually dumb enough to vote for them) in power, and USA will have to worry about itself more than a mere tactical nukes 10,000 km away.

For the first time in post WW2 history, a developed nation is roaring behind a fascist man. Not good.

 

[VCheng]

No, it is a very real scenario. Complete collapse of state control, ISIS like entity running wild in Pakistan, that would definitely warrant safe and secure custody of nuclear materials. To hell with delivery systems.

Are you saying that "complete collapse of state control, (with) ISIS like entity running wild in Pakistan" is a very real scenario? Really?

 

[batmannow]

Are you saying that "complete collapse of state control, (with) ISIS like entity running wild in Pakistan" is a very real scenario? Really?

He is just referring towards some junkyard proxy like ,TTp a few years back , tried their best even getting many good plans , GPRS equipment but they failed because security layers were so much that at a point , they became really , desperate & then , blown up in no where , at some small mentinence building on mehran air base in Karachi ?

 

[VCheng]

He is just referring towards some junkyard proxy like ,TTp a few years back , tried their best even getting many good plans , GPRS equipment but they failed because security layers were so much that at a point , they became really , desperate & then , blown up in no where , at some small mentinence building on mehran air base in Karachi ?

Sure, but why don't we let the TTA clarify what was meant by a "very real scenario" as was described above?