US, India and Japan launch joint naval exercises to keep China in check

[Han Patriot]

"China is there to base troop for operations "
operations against whom ?? If it is against Indian commercial shipping it is a big fat target

you can rent a base in Timbutku. If you attack India from Timbutku we reserve the right to come after you.
The Indian Ocean is our backyard whether you like it or not.



Those 14 ships depend on refueling from bases that do not exist in wartime

Bro,

Theoretically, you can base at Timbuktu if it's as strategic as Djibouti, but it needs to be a stable country with no insurgency, relatively friendly government, decent infrastructure etc, otherwise, why do you think Japan, US and France chose Djibouti? They could have went to 'Timbuktu' right? The IOR is officially American, Chinese, Japanese and European backyard. I can't stop you from thinking it's your backyard, that's your right.

Why won't Karachi exists? Why won't Djibouti exist?

We can go round and round in this,with your fanboy rants and 100 smilies per post.So i will make it simple.If the road is built i will never post on anything related to china on this forum,if the road is not built you will never post anything on indian issues.Lets see if you have the guts to take the offer.There is no need to bark on and on,let real events decide which one of us is correct.Lets see how mighty the dragon is,or if its just a paper dragon only capable of warnings.Take the challenge if you dare.Then lets wait and see what happens.Our terms remain simple,return to status quo - no road.

Let me make a bet with you, do you dare?

1) India will withdraw first like a loser.
2) If India doesn't withdraw there will be war.

If I am wrong, I will cease to comment about India in Indian threads? Fair? If you lose, you just need to admit India is a chicken. That's all.

 

[Han Patriot]

War is not Theoretical it is the most practical. You cannot neutralize Andaman and Nicobar. We do not need to attack Chinese navy, we just need to harass your shipping. They ask Chinese to invest because they get more bribes. Chinese can do whatever they want and it is not of a concern for us. The only concern is the breach of international laws that you do with impunity. Whatever you do...we can destroy it with impunity. That is why we do not care what Chinese do. There are just concerns in the south bloc.

Remember we have not moved an inch from Dokalam and same way we will still be the dominant power in IOR. 60% of the world trade happens in the IOR. If you want to mess it up you will be penalized by the world.
.

War is only practical when you start fighting it right? Before that all is theoretical strategies. Why can't we neutralize A&N? Bro, you harass our ships downstream, we harass your ships upstream, what do you think Djibouti and Gwadar(Karachi now, future Gwadar) is for? This is called deterrence. We are not invading India, we are creating a balance. You can, and we can't? You are talking to the world's second largest MIC and the world's second largest economy. No problem, bro, you don't have to care, that base was not meant for India only, it was meant for the African and Suez corridor, the port in Djibouti is built by China linked to a rail line to the interior also built by China, trade and security comes hand in hand. Check out the Djibouti-Addis Adaba line, it's faster and better than the best Indian line, and it's not HSR.

The port is for something bigger my friend.. I can't predict the future, but last I heard your FM was begging to withdraw in a face saving manner and China rejected it.

As I have already reiterated that every technology has a gestation period. You reverse engineering might sound good. But I still dont know why your J 10 has not been sold and every country that has brought your products have kept it grounded. China lack the quality of equipment that can operate out of its mainland.

Early Chinese equipment had reliability issues, but due to maturity in QA processes, most Chinese weapons nowadays are quite reliable. Our drones, ships, planes, howitzers, are still operated by our clients. Early 80s to late 80s would have been retired or had reliability issues, late 90s onwards, due to reform and influx of foreign quality control procedures, it is much more dependable. Can you tell me what is grounded? J-10 cannot be sold to any country yet, only JF-17 can be sold. J-10 is our front line fighter until enough J-31/J-20 are ready, even though Pakistan wanted to buy it, we had to reject it.

The most notable one is the boilers that we bought for Vikramaditya...the same were used by Liaoning and it broke down in the high seas. We replaced it with asbestos but due to pressure from the party you are still using those same bricks.

The Russian blamed a boiler failure on bricks? Let me tell you something, I am a controls engineer, boiler don't fail because of insulation bricks, they fail because of steam leakages, If your bricks are not insulated correctly, at most the boiler won't reach the required temperature, it won't fail. Chinese steam boiler was due to leakages at pipe flanges during the sea trials, not because of burner insulation bricks genius.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Let me make a bet with you, do you dare?

1) India will withdraw first like a loser.
2) If India doesn't withdraw there will be war.

If I am wrong, I will cease to comment about India in Indian threads? Fair? If you lose, you just need to admit India is a chicken. That's all.

1.It doesn't matter if we withdraw or not.We will only withdraw if there is no road.
2.Bring it.

I accept.If we let you build a road and withdraw i will admit india is chicken,it will be well deserved.Hell i'll never comment on china topics either.But if there is no road (withdraw or not as that doesnt matter)then you will never again comment on Indian matters.

 

[Han Patriot]

1.It doesn't matter if we withdraw or not.We will only withdraw if there is no road.
2.Bring it.

I accept.If we let you build a road and withdraw i will admit india is chicken,it will be well deserved.Hell i'll never comment on china topics either.But if there is no road (withdraw or not as that doesnt matter)then you will never again comment on Indian matters.

What if India agree to withdraw, and China rebuilds the road 4 months later?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

What if India agree to withdraw, and China rebuilds the road 4 months later?

It cant because both sides constantly monitor activity as they are so close.If they try again,we will move in our troops again.

 

[wiseone2]

Bro,

Theoretically, you can base at Timbuktu if it's as strategic as Djibouti, but it needs to be a stable country with no insurgency, relatively friendly government, decent infrastructure etc, otherwise, why do you think Japan, US and France chose Djibouti? They could have went to 'Timbuktu' right? The IOR is officially American, Chinese, Japanese and European backyard. I can't stop you from thinking it's your backyard, that's your right.
/QUOTE]

USA and UK have islands in Indian Ocean Region. China has none.
Djibouti is only country that allows it in the neighborhood, probably cheap and has no baggage.

 

[Han Patriot]

It cant because both sides constantly monitor activity as they are so close.If they try again,we will move in our troops again.

What if they build 10m a day in 10 years time?

Bro, who is attacking US or UK. It's there to defend international trade from Indian harassment. The owners of those ships happen to be European in most cases.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

What if they build 10m a day in 10 years time?

There wont be a road in the area,too sensitive.The govt could concede anywhere,but never here.Army will oppose it.

 

[Han Patriot]

There wont be a road in the area,too sensitive.The govt could concede anywhere,but never here.Army will oppose it.

So you believe the Indians will withdraw first? The precondition to even starting to negotiate is India withdraw, what this means is without even agreeing to stop building the road, India has to withdraw, do you count this as defeat?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

So you believe the Indians will withdraw first? The precondition to even starting to negotiate is India withdraw, what this means is without even agreeing to stop building the road, India has to withdraw, do you count this as defeat?

No we will only withdraw when there is an agreement that roadbuilding activity will stop.If it resumes we will move in again and bulldoze it.Withdrawal in itself means nothing to us,what is important is the strategic construction - the road.That is what threatens us.Otherwise what is there in that barren goat pasture.Of importance to us are 2 things -
1.Road threatening our vulnerable strategic region.
2.Sending the message that India will protect its ally Bhutan from chinese bullying.

The status quo is our objective.China disturbed it in violation of 2012 agreement.It will now have to return to staus quo.We could give them a diplomatic face saver if they want,as long as road isn't built.

 

[Han Patriot]

No we will only withdraw when there is an agreement that roadbuilding activity will stop.If it resumes we will move in again and bulldoze it.Withdrawal in itself means nothing to us,what is important is the strategic construction - the road.That is what threatens us.Otherwise what is there in that barren goat pasture.Of importance to us are 2 things -
1.Road threatening our vulnerable strategic region.
2.Sending the message that India will protect its ally Bhutan from chinese bullying.

The status quo is our objective.China disturbed it in violation of 2012 agreement.It will now have to return to staus quo.We could give them a diplomatic face saver if they want,as long as road isn't built.

No No you don't get me, we are not even getting to the point of negotiating yet. The criteria set by China to resolve this current stalemate is India withdraw unconditionally, without even any agreement, there might be some agreement in the future who knows, China had been very firm, unconditional withdrawal. If India withdraws do you see this as a defeat?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

No No you don't get me, we are not even getting to the point of negotiating yet. The criteria set by China to resolve this current stalemate is India withdraw unconditionally, without even any agreement, there might be some agreement in the future who knows, China had been very firm, unconditional withdrawal. If India withdraws do you see this as a defeat?

If we withdraw without any halt to the roadbuilding its a defeat.If we withdraw but with end to roadbuilidng we have achieved our objective.It doesnt matter what china is firm on- for negotiation to happen both sides view have to be considered.China started this mess.We have no interest in a standoff or in war with china if china leaves us alone.But it cant push india around like phillipines or mongolia.Thats the message.There will be no road that is our condition.We can fulfill your condition if you fulfill ours.Or we can both continue the standoff for years like the one in 1987.Or you could start a war,for which we are prepared too.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

War is only practical when you start fighting it right? Before that all is theoretical strategies. Why can't we neutralize A&N? Bro, you harass our ships downstream, we harass your ships upstream, what do you think Djibouti and Gwadar(Karachi now, future Gwadar) is for? This is called deterrence. We are not invading India, we are creating a balance. You can, and we can't? You are talking to the world's second largest MIC and the world's second largest economy. No problem, bro, you don't have to care, that base was not meant for India only, it was meant for the African and Suez corridor, the port in Djibouti is built by China linked to a rail line to the interior also built by China, trade and security comes hand in hand. Check out the Djibouti-Addis Adaba line, it's faster and better than the best Indian line, and it's not HSR.

The port is for something bigger my friend.. I can't predict the future, but last I heard your FM was begging to withdraw in a face saving manner and China rejected it.


Early Chinese equipment had reliability issues, but due to maturity in QA processes, most Chinese weapons nowadays are quite reliable. Our drones, ships, planes, howitzers, are still operated by our clients. Early 80s to late 80s would have been retired or had reliability issues, late 90s onwards, due to reform and influx of foreign quality control procedures, it is much more dependable. Can you tell me what is grounded? J-10 cannot be sold to any country yet, only JF-17 can be sold. J-10 is our front line fighter until enough J-31/J-20 are ready, even though Pakistan wanted to buy it, we had to reject it.





The Russian blamed a boiler failure on bricks? Let me tell you something, I am a controls engineer, boiler don't fail because of insulation bricks, they fail because of steam leakages, If your bricks are not insulated correctly, at most the boiler won't reach the required temperature, it won't fail. Chinese steam boiler was due to leakages at pipe flanges during the sea trials, not because of burner insulation bricks genius.

Please tell me where you can harass our ships upstream? So from where did you get that leakages from pipe flanges story? You can stop lying out of your teeth to make your point valid. These are just your dreams. Most of the Chinese equipment around the world are grounded. That itself shows the quality of your equipment. In war these equipments are going to cause you more trouble than do good to you.

 

[Han Patriot]

Please tell me where you can harass our ships upstream? So from where did you get that leakages from pipe flanges story? You can stop lying out of your teeth to make your point valid. These are just your dreams. Most of the Chinese equipment around the world are grounded. That itself shows the quality of your equipment. In war these equipments are going to cause you more trouble than do good to you.

Karachi(future Gwadar) and Djibouti are both upstream from India, our fleet are picnicking around those areas. Your primary gas source is Qatar and oil source is SA, both are flanked by the Chinese fleet. Your trade with Europe goes through Suez Canal, check the location of Djibouti.

Let me explain to you something, the Russians did 'refurbish' the boiler for Vikram, they just changed the insulation cladding to Chinese 'bricks', most shipyards will take this short cut, they won't change the steam piping due to cost and time constraints. When the boiler shutdown due to pressure lost, they blame it on 'Chinese bricks'. Old ships especially those built in the 70s-80s are all using CS pipes, after 40 years in a marine environment, what do you think happens to those pipes? The Chinese also faced the same problem with Liaoning, that's why it's a training ship, 40 year old ships are prone to boiler failures.

I had been asking you many times, which equipment is grounded, please back it up with neutral sources. You can doubt the quality of our equipment which adhere to higher standards than civillians goods. Look at the amount of 'grounded' civillian heavy equipment you are buying from China, do you know BHEL buys turbine blades from China? Even the high temperature boiler alloy tubings are exported to them.

If we withdraw without any halt to the roadbuilding its a defeat.If we withdraw but with end to roadbuilidng we have achieved our objective.It doesnt matter what china is firm on- for negotiation to happen both sides view have to be considered.China started this mess.We have no interest in a standoff or in war with china if china leaves us alone.But it cant push india around like phillipines or mongolia.Thats the message.There will be no road that is our condition.We can fulfill your condition if you fulfill ours.Or we can both continue the standoff for years like the one in 1987.Or you could start a war,for which we are prepared too.

Stop evading the question, I am asking you a very simple question:

1) If India withdraws without China even starting negotiations to stop or continue road building. Is that a defeat?

SImple yes or no.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Karachi(future Gwadar) and Djibouti are both upstream from India, our fleet are picnicking around those areas. Your primary gas source is Qatar and oil source is SA, both are flanked by the Chinese fleet. Your trade with Europe goes through Suez Canal, check the location of Djibouti.

Let me explain to you something, the Russians did 'refurbish' the boiler for Vikram, they just changed the insulation cladding to Chinese 'bricks', most shipyards will take this short cut, they won't change the steam piping due to cost and time constraints. When the boiler shutdown due to pressure lost, they blame it on 'Chinese bricks'. Old ships especially those built in the 70s-80s are all using CS pipes, after 40 years in a marine environment, what do you think happens to those pipes? The Chinese also faced the same problem with Liaoning, that's why it's a training ship, 40 year old ships are prone to boiler failures.

I had been asking you many times, which equipment is grounded, please back it up with neutral sources. You can doubt the quality of our equipment which adhere to higher standards than civillians goods. Look at the amount of 'grounded' civillian heavy equipment you are buying from China, do you know BHEL buys turbine blades from China? Even the high temperature boiler alloy tubings are exported to them.


Stop evading the question, I am asking you a very simple question:

1) If India withdraws without China even starting negotiations to stop or continue road building. Is that a defeat?

SImple yes or no.

Still your ships are operating far away from your homeland bases. You neither have air cover or a stationed fleet like the US 7th fleet in Djibouti or Gwadar. You are not facing a navy like the Phillipine navy or the Vietnamese navy. Above all you also have the 2 US fleets in the IOR permanently based.

And yeah those turbine blades gave us a lot of problems so it has been substituted with indigenous manufacturers even if it costs more. That was one of the examples. The turbines that you provided with no safety features were the reason for the low cost. The CEA report has made a mockery of yours.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...cheaper-chinese-equipment-114091700243_1.html

The South Africans too had a bad experience with Chinese railway engines.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/N...-chinese-locomotives-fail-first-test-20170123

The HTMS Naresuan that the Chinese supplied was very badly engineered

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/thailand/naresuan.htm#

The list goes on and on. Google is your friend man. You can use it.

oops sorry you do not have google in your country. And you ask me to search for neutral sources? You are a funny person.