US HR Watch urges Indian govt to probe killings along Bangladesh border

[Stumper]

I really dont expect BD members to accept that those killed were in fact not supposed to be there on Border at that time, in first place.

I'm not surprised with the way some members here have reacted. Pointing fingers at the sanitation depicted in a hollywood movie.
I need to ask them, why not demand a answer from your Government? .... Why dont your hot headed BDR react in a similar fashion (is it because they are as peaceful as they were in Pilkhana Massacre?). Why dont you put an end to cattle smuggling business on your side of the border?



Two points to note from the holy report of HRW that BD members have flaunted here:


1)Mrs.Ganguly admits that a majority of those killed were Cattle Smugglers

"Ganguly said that a number of those who were shot dead by the BSF were smuggling cattle, but shooting people for such an offence is violation of human rights."

To be fair to Mrs.Ganguly, yes shooting someone for cattle smuggling might not be right under normal circumstances. But is it really possible simply to arrest this smugglers and deport them .... Maybe not simple. And also -- will arresting this smugglers help us solve the issue of border crossings?


2)And here is what IG-BSF has to say

However, according to the BSF there are prohibitory orders from sunrise to sunset on the Indo-Bangladesh border and the BSF is deployed to enforce the order.

“In the night when jawans are posted at a distance of around 200 metres smugglers attack them and try to snatch away the weapons. They are in big numbers and the jawans - in a group of two or three - have no option but to fire in self defence,” C V Murlidhar, Inspector General, BSF, South Bengal Frontier, told The Indian Express.

Although im not in favor letting any innocents getting killed in by-fire's , i do accept that BSF has a responsibility of enforcing that curfew orders. And the reports validates what BSF has been saying ... that the majority of killed were indeed smugglers and also provides us insight on the fire at sight method deployed by BSF.


If you really believe all those killed are innocents, i dont have anything more to say. We as Indians will believe what our soldiers have to say. That those killed, were mostly cattle smugglers - as validated by HRW report flaunted here. Innocents did get killed on few instance's -- which is something BSF needs to work on. Our soldiers also point on why they have to resort to shooting(and not arresting them) on this smugglers.

 

[deckingraj]

Yes you Indians would like me for target practice and nice excuse to have me dead but I am not going to make it that easy for you.

I must say that if there is any poll here about the members who hate India the most then you will come in top three. However these are your views and i have nothing personal against you...In fact i must say that you have good sense of humor ...Anyhow my point is that the way you don't want to be target practive for Indians you should not give same advice to the villagers...You being a elite should think about the whole issue more pragmatically and see how can people suffering be reduced...

 

[deckingraj]

I really dont expect BD members to accept that those killed were in fact not supposed to be there on Border at that time, in first place.

As you advicated pointing fingers will not be the right thing to do i would expect you to adhere to it as well....We should fix whatever is wrong at our end no matter what is the response from other side...1000 in a year is definitely a huge number. Just for instance there is lot of smuggling going on b/e US and Mexican border including illegal immigration....however you will not hear so many casulaties in this part of world. If india want's to be in UNSC she has to improve her HR record...There should not be any doubt on that...

I'm not surprised with the way some members here have reacted. Pointing fingers at the sanitation depicted in a hollywood movie.
I need to ask them, why not demand a answer from your Government? .... Why dont your hot headed BDR react in a similar fashion (is it because they are as peaceful as they were in Pilkhana Massacre?). Why dont you put an end to cattle smuggling business on your side of the border?

As said above, no matter what is the response from other side, 1000 is still too big a number to ignore....

Two points to note from the holy report of HRW that BD members have flaunted here:


1)Mrs.Ganguly admits that a majority of those killed were Cattle Smugglers

To be fair to Mrs.Ganguly, yes shooting someone for cattle smuggling might not be right under normal circumstances. But is it really possible simply to arrest this smugglers and deport them .... Maybe not simple. And also -- will arresting this smugglers help us solve the issue of border crossings?

This is simple or not is a separate discussion but this is the right way. You cannot kill people just because arresting them will not solve the issue(as per you)....This is inhumane and Mrs Ganguly is right when she say's gross violation of Human Rights...There are protocols and one must adhere to them....If BSF don't understand this that for a change they should try their hands on chinese civilians....I promise everything that has rotten(if there is any) will be fixed ASAP....

2)And here is what IG-BSF has to say


Although im not in favor letting any innocents getting killed in by-fire's , i do accept that BSF has a responsibility of enforcing that curfew orders. And the reports validates what BSF has been saying ... that the majority of killed were indeed smugglers and also provides us insight on the fire at sight method deployed by BSF.

Well IG-BSF would be the best person to know what is the best way of handling the issue, however as said that 1000 is too huge a number....They should do a re-thinking on shoot at sight order....Instead they should try and nab those people...Use them as examples and put pressure on Bangladesh to tighten the screws from their end as well....

If you really believe all those killed are innocents, i dont have anything more to say. We as Indians will believe what our soldiers have to say. That those killed, were mostly cattle smugglers - as validated by HRW report flaunted here. Innocents did get killed on few instance's -- which is something BSF needs to work on. Our soldiers also point on why they have to resort to shooting(and not arresting them) on this smugglers.

Cattle smuggling is not big enough crime to give death penalty to someone....This is not even a good enough explanation for a kinder garden kid...so i believe some heads should roll and efforts should be put in to seek more pragmatic and humane solution.....

 

[arun]

Btw, how is having a large percentage of muslim population something "bad"?

Because it denotes a severe change in demographic composition of the state. This always leads to serious social and other problems. It is worse when it happens due to illegal immigration.

 

[saleen_s7]

Because it denotes a severe change in demographic composition of the state. This always leads to serious social and other problems. It is worse when it happens due to illegal immigration.

Then why call yourself secularism? Isn't secularism designed to eliminate this sorts of issues?

 

[idune]

I must say that if there is any poll here about the members who hate India the most e more ..

Killing is done by india and and indians are supporting it. And you accusing victims of "india hate"? There should be some decency in human and civil behaviour, Indians coming up with "india hate" concoction should look at indian acts.

 

[jayron]

Documentary on BSF killings.. Shameful!

 

[BanglaBhoot]

I must say that if there is any poll here about the members who hate India the most then you will come in top three. However these are your views and i have nothing personal against you...In fact i must say that you have good sense of humor ...Anyhow my point is that the way you don't want to be target practive for Indians you should not give same advice to the villagers...You being a elite should think about the whole issue more pragmatically and see how can people suffering be reduced...

Actually my suggestion of arming Bangladeshi villagers near the border is very pragmatic. If the government cannot protect its own citizens then the villagers have every right to try to defend themselves and they should be assisted by provision of weapons.

I think this idea of me hating India is a convenient propaganda ploy. Since Indians cannot counter my arguments they have to make it appear that my views are irrational.

 

[arun]

Then why call yourself secularism? Isn't secularism designed to eliminate this sorts of issues?

Secularism doesn't mean that my country has to accept millions of illegal migrants. The fact that this will alter the demography significantly is only one aspect of it. Even if the migrants were to be Hindus, it would still be very problematic.

Plus, no matter how secular a country is, no-one likes the possibility of their becoming a minority in their own state/region. When it happens very fast, it is worse.

 

[Marauder]

Actually my suggestion of arming Bangladeshi villagers near the border is very pragmatic. If the government cannot protect its own citizens then the villagers have every right to try to defend themselves and they should be assisted by provision of weapons.

I think this idea of me hating India is a convenient propaganda ploy. Since Indians cannot counter my arguments they have to make it appear that my views are irrational.

And what do we do? Let u guys smuggle cattle and trade fake currency?

Just google to find out how many illegal Bangladeshi immigrants are in India.

 

[saleen_s7]

Secularism doesn't mean that my country has to accept millions of illegal migrants. The fact that this will alter the demography significantly is only one aspect of it. Even if the migrants were to be Hindus, it would still be very problematic.

Plus, no matter how secular a country is, no-one likes the possibility of their becoming a minority in their own state/region. When it happens very fast, it is worse.

you don't see any hypocrisy in your views? Minorities shouldn't even be an issue in secular countries. Seems to me that you guys believe anything that justifies your actions from rapes to mass murders.

 

[Fasih Khan]

So Shamelessly Indians Support the Rape and Murder on name of Indian Nationalism. Lowest of Mankind.

 

[jayron]

you don't see any hypocrisy in your views? Minorities shouldn't even be an issue in secular countries. Seems to me that you guys believe anything that justifies your actions from rapes to mass murders.

The government is secular. It treats everyone equal. But the people have their own beliefs. I too agree that when the demographic of a land changes too fast there will be friction because the new comers would try to change the culture of the land. We are seeing that now in Europe.

 

[jayron]

So Shamelessly Indians Support the Rape and Murder on name of Indian Nationalism. Lowest of Mankind.

No one is supporting the BSF actions. What they are doing is brutal and stupid. This news has never been given media coverage . So people know very little of it.
This does not make BDs saints. The slums of major cities are filled with BD illegal immigrants and they are nothing but trouble. As the documentary I posted, with BSF's brutal ways, the illegal immigration has stopped.

 

[StingRoy]

you don't see any hypocrisy in your views? Minorities shouldn't even be an issue in secular countries. Seems to me that you guys believe anything that justifies your actions from rapes to mass murders.

It is not about the minorities that concerns us... rather the illegal nature of migration which is being fought forcefully. Any rational country will try to give its own citizens priority before considering to help others.

No one is trying to justify the mass murders and rapes that you allege, everyone on this forum is well educated to stand against such acts. But every nation has the right to protect its border from infiltration, although in some cases it maybe called too harsh, but in every way it can be justified.

Take the recent example of Iranian soldiers killing Pakistani nationals who were suspected of crossing the border illegally. If I remember correctly most Indian members did condemn this act by the Iranian border guards.