US grooming India to annoy China, Pakistan’

[Neo]

I guess we're blessed with our geo-political advantage:
Pakistan is the gateway to oil rich CAR, the future energy corridor to China and CAR, the gateway to the oil rich Gulf, it borders Iran and Afghanistan, its an emerging market and soon we'll enter the Shanghai groop.
But most important of all, we're the only nuclear armed muslim coutry with a missile arsenal.
If the US alienates Pakistan like in the late eighties and nineties, it will lose more than it would gain from such action.

Its indeed unlikely that US will cut aid in near future.

 

[sigatoka]

If the US cutoff aid, it would certainly effect us and the growthrate could fall by atleast 1.5-2.00% as we'll be facing budget dificit and will have to cut domestic development funds to fill the gap for military purchase. USaid stands at $600 million per annum, half of it goes to the military.

I disagree Neo, it would reduce growth more on the order of 0.25-0.5%. All projects which gave returns higher than the cost of funds could simply be funded by borrowing. A budget deficit itself has no relevance Neo as long as the funds are used to fund positive NPV projects. Budget Deficits are simply delayed taxation and individuals can reverse budget deficits by purchasing government bonds.

My point is this Neo, if there are projects that are being funded now but wont be if the Aid is cut, it means either

a) They were never good projects to begin with and should not even have been funded even with Aid.

Or

b) The government is silly by not continuing to fund it by borrowing when the Aid is gone. Capital markets will always fund good projects.

Does this mean that Aid has no benefits??

No, it does have benefits. The benefits are the interest savings. For 600mil Aid the beneifts would be around 55mil a year. In reality a free 55mil is not bad, but in truth its not enough to make a huge difference one way or another.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

As I stated earlier, pakistan and pakistanis want to become somebody, for that reason you see so much anxiousness and anxiety in pakistan and the pakistanis----japan offcourse is a somebody and china is well on its way to get there----but sadly so the egyptians do not have a leader with electrifying qualities of Musharraf and Aziz.

A lots of people don't appreciate Musharraf at this stage----the reason being that he does not have a team that can market him in front of the local public.


I will give you one example. At the end of the second term of Ronald reagan the economic growth started slowing down and when George sr came into the white house, the things were way down-----he started the ball rolling, but he lost the elections and when Clinton came into power, economy kicked into the power mode due the planning of George sr and clinton got all the credit.

When, Musharraf took power away from Nawaz, pakistan's condition was like a fully loaded passenger train going up a steep hill and the engine failed and the brakes failed as well. The only way to stop that train from rolling back off the track was for the people to get out and stop the train manually and when they got out to stop the behemoth, many of them got crushed------that is how a derailing economy is----when it starts going down, the momentum is so great that it takes off like a rolling thunder and if measures are put in place for economic recovery, it takes a long time for it to stop the downward trend, it then has to level off then gain momentum and start an upward motion and for the benefits to trickle down to the poor, it takes a long long time.

It is just like the weight that you gain by not working out for a year and eat all you want, that weight is not going to come off in a weak or two of starvation. It will take a good six months to a year of hard work to where you were.

Pakistan can get out of this muck if the industry starts paying better wages to the lower wage earners and the government keeps control over the price of daily eatables. Just went off the topic.

 

[Bull]

I thought India was building only one and buying another from Russia, the one aircraft it has already doesnt seem to be very capable.

How many aircraft will the new one which is being built be able to carry, what is its tonnage. There doenst seem to be much info on the net, when will it be ready.

Three will not be enough Bull because one will always be in training/repairs which leaves two which must be deployed on the Arabian Sea against Pakistan's navy. It can be seen that if there was another one (total 4), that could patrol near the Malacca straits.

Laid Down - 07 October 2005, Launch - 2009, Commissioning - 2012.
Displacement: 37,500 tons - standard displacement.
40,000 tons - full load (estimation).
Dimensions:
Length - 252 meters.
Beam - 58 meters.
Draught - 8.4 meters.
Depth - 25.6 meters.
Flight Deck - 2.5 acres.

There will be totally 12 fighters on the deck,17 in the hanger below,10 helis,2 AEW helis.

 

[Bull]

I thought India was building only one and buying another from Russia, the one aircraft it has already doesnt seem to be very capable.

How many aircraft will the new one which is being built be able to carry, what is its tonnage. There doenst seem to be much info on the net, when will it be ready.

Three will not be enough Bull because one will always be in training/repairs which leaves two which must be deployed on the Arabian Sea against Pakistan's navy. It can be seen that if there was another one (total 4), that could patrol near the Malacca straits.

i agree that the one in service will be very old by the time these two enters and hence we mighthave only 2 active ACs active

 

[Bull]

Pak. will substitute U.S. equipment for Chinese and will increase production of nuclear weapons which can be produced domestically. U.S. makes good money selling weapons to Pak. as much if not more than it does selling to India which procures nearly totally from Russia.

What will happen to the F 16 in the PAf inventory,and other recon ACs thats their in your armour.

US doesnt make good money from PAk thru arms sale.Do u have ay figure with you???

The possibilty of US making multifold times the money from India is very high and thats the reason why u see LH,Boeing eagerly bidding for IAf orders and then trying it thru Israel also.

India has been off late looking outside Russia for arms/avionics.

But the chance of US or Pakistan is remote.

 

[Bull]

India is pretty soon going to be a proxy state of the U S unless tha BJP gets back into power.

t

BJP is more pro US than the current UPA govt.

As india is preparing itself to be the frontline state against the chinese aggression and all its nuclear weapons are designed for the chinese, I don't know how good the relationship between india and china can be. I mean to say that chinese are not that **** or stupid as india has stated many a times that its millitary buildup is geared towards china.

Which Indian missile is designed for Chineese?I feel the pr and ithvis and the agnis thats been commissioned are having a max range of 1500 - 2000 kms and are meant to be launched at Pakistan from deep inside India.

The to be launched Agni 3 is chineese specific.

 

[MastanKhan]

Bull,

How are you doing? The question is not 'which of the missiles is designed for china'. It is what india states in the world forum or at least in the U S media------all of india's major offensive capability is designed to meet the aggression by the chinese.

 

[sigatoka]

US doesnt make good money from PAk thru arms sale.Do u have ay figure with you???

bidding

Do you have any figures that U.S. makes good money from sellihng to India?

Key word, bidding, not selling.

 

[Neo]

What will happen to the F 16 in the PAf inventory,and other recon ACs thats their in your armour.

US doesnt make good money from PAk thru arms sale.Do u have ay figure with you???

The possibilty of US making multifold times the money from India is very high and thats the reason why u see LH,Boeing eagerly bidding for IAf orders and then trying it thru Israel also.

India has been off late looking outside Russia for arms/avionics.

But the chance of US or Pakistan is remote.

Bull you're clearly missing the point that money, eventhough very imporatnt, isn't the main issue for US to nurture Pakistan.
US' interests are of geo-political nature. India may have the big $$$ on spend on US arms, she cannot provide the same geo-political returns to US.

Another fact is that Pak economy is growing faster than ever, resulting in increased spendings. Its a huge market fro US goods and services.

You should try to see things less black and white. Indians generally tend to think that any country they deal with should stop or restirict its dealings with Pakistan, Indian foreign policy is designed in such way, but thats simply not going to happen with the USA.

US is not Russia!

​

 

[Neo]

Even Russia is opening its doors to Pakistan now, there have been little arms sales but the writing is on the wall!
Once Pakistan gets full member of the SGO, Russia will open up its market of Pakistan.

The meeting between the leaders of two countries assured such intentions and Russia is even looking into the IP(I) to join.

In future you'll see big Russian armsales to Pakistan...

 

[Bull]

Bull you're clearly missing the point that money, eventhough very imporatnt, isn't the main issue for US to nurture Pakistan.

US' interests are of geo-political nature. India may have the big $$$ on spend on US arms, she cannot provide the same geo-political returns to US.

Another fact is that Pak economy is growing faster than ever, resulting in increased spendings. Its a huge market fro US goods and services.

You should try to see things less black and white. Indians generally tend to think that any country they deal with should stop or restirict its dealings with Pakistan, Indian foreign policy is designed in such way, but thats simply not going to happen with the USA.

US is not Russia!​

​

Neo i wasnt discounting Pakistans importance in US plans,but was just refuting the claim that US makes good money thru arms sales to Pakistan.

And also abt Pakistans growth,we both are having more or less the same growth rate,and consodering Indias size we have more in offer for US than Pakistan.So vis a vis pakistan India provides better oppurtunity for Pakistan.

 

[Bull]

Even Russia is opening its doors to Pakistan now, there have been little arms sales but the writing is on the wall!
Once Pakistan gets full member of the SGO, Russia will open up its market of Pakistan.

The meeting between the leaders of two countries assured such intentions and Russia is even looking into the IP(I) to join.

In future you'll see big Russian armsales to Pakistan...

This is wishfull thinking.

But i also would to see that happening,ncoz that means India wud have by then started buying heavliy from other sources.

 

[Bull]

Bull,

How are you doing? The question is not 'which of the missiles is designed for china'. It is what india states in the world forum or at least in the U S media------all of india's major offensive capability is designed to meet the aggression by the chinese.

im fine yaar thanks.And hws u?

Well personally i dont think India has anything China specific rather everything is Pakistan specific,except may be for the Indian Navy.

We have the himalayas to take care of the Chineese!!!

And regarding what India says in worldforum,i only remember once when the then def minister Fernandes stated this and raised a storm in both Indian and Chineese media.

 

[Bull]

Do you have any figures that U.S. makes good money from sellihng to India?

Key word, bidding, not selling.

US hasnt sold any wortwhile military stuff to India and so there is no fig available.When i said it doesnt make from Paksitan,it didnt mean that it makes from India.

But with the booming economy and the 200 MRCS order plus 80 helis orders and booming avitaion industry do mean that US can make hughe amt of money.
This is without taking into consideration the other business interests.