US Government vs Congress: Sale of F16s to Pakistan

[Lightning Soul]

It's time to let the F-16s go and allocate funds to buy a Heavyweight Fighter before shifting our priorities to 5th Generation which is still I believe have about a decade to go. Consider this as the blessings in Disguise. No doubt, F-16 has been our number 1 frontline fighter for all these years but its time for CHANGE. If we have to buy from our own than better buy something which should add new punch to our fighter jets arsenal. Use the funds wisely, we still got the opportunities to buy 2nd hand F-16s to make up our never ending wish of 100+ F-16s. And in the future SABR upgrade can be utilized to squeeze out the max potential out of these jets which will be much more cost-effective.
We have options available in the range of 60-80$ per plane. Su-35 would be an Ideal option if we play our cards right.
The next best alternative is Chinese. Initial order of 8 heavies instead which may cost up to a billion at first including setup, training,weapons but it would be worth it in the long run.
Otherwise, the US will keep throwing the new F-16 deal like a bone to a dog every now and then and pulling it back with the string. Remind you the deal was put back on when news regarding PAF interest in buying Su-35 were at their peak. I'm optimistic that JF-17 exports will start generating funds by the end of 2018. So between these 2 years, an initial order of 2 squadrons of Su-35 or any similar alternative with lesser strings attached should be looked upon.

 

[Airdef95]

Its better to cancel the deal and show that we dont depend on them.

 

[ziaulislam]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...-to-grab-us-f16-deal/articleshow/52087286.cms

Countdown begin

it will be an idiotic move to pay first, it would be a repeat story of embargo

rather it would be idiotic to move along with the deal at all

Cancel the deal forthright. No need for a countdown. Pakistan isn't paying 700 million for this.

i will say better not,
to let it be denied, atleast we will be able to cry "lack of equipment " if they asl for "do more"

 

[cloud4000]

All your arguments on F16 being prone to sanction is correct, but everything Pakistan has purchased from abroad is prone to sanctions. Why single out the US product? The US product, and for that matter all their products, work as designed and to expectations. This cannot be said for kit from other countries. Pakistan is so deeply vested into the F16 program that there are no easy ways out. It is golden and hot handcuffs.

A fool is someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes. The whole point of JF-17 program was to have a fighter with capabilities of the F-16 that was not prone to restrictions or sanctions. At the time, Pakistan said "never again." However, with the WoT, Pakistan couldn't resist US military hardware being offered, including F-16s and, well, here we are...

Best thing for Pakistan to do-- in the short term-- is to double-down on JF-17 and look for a heavy fighter from China, the only country they can rely on. Forget the Russians, they are too beholden to India.

 

[Thorough Pro]

We don't need eight f-16's, they are not going to add any significant punch to PAF's strike capability. Use these funds to acquire good European targeting pods and avionics, and that will add significant capability to many JF-17 squadrons or buy 20 J10B's in the same amount or even better get some Russian heavyweights that will not only add a long range strike capability to PAF but also change some political dynamics in the region

 

[egodoc222]

I don't understand you guys....you don't want pay 700mil for 8 jets it's ok....but saying you can buy su35 for the same....is stupidity!!
Su35 is completely new platform in paf....with new weapons...new logistics...lol...even hypothetically considering Russians gonna offer...!!

 

[MastanKhan]

I don't understand you guys....you don't want pay 700mil for 8 jets it's ok....but saying you can buy su35 for the same....is stupidity!!
Su35 is completely new platform in paf....with new weapons...new logistics...lol...even hypothetically considering Russians gonna offer...!!

Hi,

Let me try to explain---this NO by the U S is the pre cursor to sanction on the F16's---.

Secondly----90 mil dollars per plane was due to U S funds----they are overcharging by like a 190% mark up.

The romance with the F16 is basically over---paf will have to find a new platform---so the growing pains are there.

 

[خره مينه لګته وي]

What are the chances that you will pay for this glorified 4th gen aircraft?

0.0001%

 

[Super Falcon]

For GOD SAKE PAF don't make us kneel down for few jets because ur stupid mindset wants it

I think general public should have dharna outside PAF headquarters we won't let you sell traitor afridi for F 16

For GOD SAKE PAF don't make us kneel down for few jets because ur stupid mindset wants it

I think general public should have dharna outside PAF headquarters we won't let you sell traitor afridi for F

I don't understand you guys....you don't want pay 700mil for 8 jets it's ok....but saying you can buy su35 for the same....is stupidity!!
Su35 is completely new platform in paf....with new weapons...new logistics...lol...even hypothetically considering Russians gonna offer...!!

New weapons SU 35 can carry JF 17 weapons

When we bought F 16 in 83 F 16 were also new platform don't make stupid justification that make no sense oneday you have to get new platform with new thinking you can't start buying WW 2 fighter in todays air war you have to change your self accordingly

One dimensional thinking mental block justifications only will make us weaker

Countries like Oman Indonesia Egypt Algeria Kuwait Bahrain

Buying MIG 35 SU 35 RAFALE EUROFIGHTER

they don't have any threats but they are changing their tactics with enhancing its operational capabilities

So think wisely don't think old villager thinking corolla Honda thinking made us mental block ourselves we don't see better options with same amount

 

[TopCat]

YOu want F-16 but no cash?? Why are you blaming USA for it? Are you expecting them to give you free?

 

[Cool_Soldier]

YOu want F-16 but no cash?? Why are you blaming USA for it? Are you expecting them to give you free?

We are not expecting free of cost.
We are blaming as it was agreement between both govt to pay the 66% cost from Foreign Aid Military funds.

Now deal is distorted by USA.Our blame is quite fair.
Lets see what will come out.
Failing of deal will fail many confidential agreements.

 

[IceCold]

The issue is not just sanctions because PAF was able to keep their F-16 in the Air during the 90's.

One must also look from the angle of the US.
1) US economy is at rock bottom.
2) US Tax payers are loosing tax benefits.
3) Job in the US have hit rock bottom.
4) Experiences have increased.
5) Ordinary tax payers are getting involved in home and International Politics which was once out of question.
6) Agitation among different class of people is growing.
7) More and more Military equipment is being bought by the local police which is a big cause of concern. When people ask explanation they are given a very patriotic answer "we do not leave behind our dead and equipment".

Trump of who ever is going to win must make sure that his country men are provided their basic need for this He \ She is going to go to whichever length it may take.

They have to secure the Homeland
1) To do the in the safest way is to reduce the number of migrants that enter.
2) Make arrangements to monitor activities of those who they think can cause trouble.

The only reason PAF was able to keep the F-16 fleet alive was by cannibalizing other F-16s and some help from friendly nations namely Turkey. But there is a reason why we call the 90's era as lost decade, the operational capability of PAF was all time low due to sanctions. My point is simple why to take that risk again when this isnt the 90s anymore and PAF other options as well. Chinese aviation industry has grown leaps and bounds, it would be better if we place hedge our bets safely.
US economy is down but lets not underestimate the capabilities of the US and what they can do. 8 F-16s would hardly make any difference for the US economy.

Oh, and another important thing. It wouldn't take a Trump for a rude awakening. Mark my words. Hillary would be an even bigger problem for Pakistan.

Considering how Clinton use to make threats and lecture Pakistan on his trip, i wouldnt bet on Hiliary either. The Americans have chosen their next alliance and that is India, we just need to understand and distance ourself for the better.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

A fool is someone who doesn't learn from their mistakes. The whole point of JF-17 program was to have a fighter with capabilities of the F-16 that was not prone to restrictions or sanctions. At the time, Pakistan said "never again." However, with the WoT, Pakistan couldn't resist US military hardware being offered, including F-16s and, well, here we are...

Best thing for Pakistan to do-- in the short term-- is to double-down on JF-17 and look for a heavy fighter from China, the only country they can rely on. Forget the Russians, they are too beholden to India.

You call Pakistanis a fool for opting for F16. We call you a genius for making Tejas.

PAF is dedicated to the JF17 program, and the program is doing extremely well, which cannot be said about our LCA programs going on in the region. As the innovations of JF17 will hit the news and forums like these, some of you will only be critical and deny, but what you cannot deny, is that JF17 is filly operational, and propagating.

To assume that JF17 can replace a Block 50 level f16 is unrealistic. JF17 and F16 is a good mix that is sufficiently capable to defend the Pakistani airspace.

 

[BattleWolf]

We are not expecting free of cost.
We are blaming as it was agreement between both govt to pay the 66% cost from Foreign Aid Military funds.

Now deal is distorted by USA.Our blame is quite fair.
Lets see what will come out.
Failing of deal will fail many confidential agreements.

No agreement or contracts were signed for the finalization , you Can't just throw a b.s biased contract to a democratic government & expect it to pass. No matter how the ambassador sugarcotes it , politics is more than just 2 people . Both the left & right wing tore the deal into a new .

Negotiations are a long process , once done ,either agree or move on .blackmailing the U.S. government with "threats?" does nothing but embarrass the whole problem even further .anyway the clocks ticking .

 

[Omega007]

Please examine the number of NATO aircraft deployed in Afghanistan and tell us why so many were required.

But you have other aircraft in pretty good numbers,don't you??