US Government vs Congress: Sale of F16s to Pakistan

[A.P. Richelieu]

another retard logic on PDF , why I am not surprised ..
so you want Pakistan to buy defense stuff just to kill Taliban , when we are surrounded by hostile neighbors from three side ? let me know if NATO buy their equipment just to fight Taliban ... NO ..
they buy or equip their military to have Russian's in mind ..

Advice , sometimes its best to stay quite rather than speak and prove yourself to be retarded ..

Nope, Pakistan should buy what they need, but the U.S. Congress will have objections, and You agree
tat their suspicions arewell founded.

And why would we use a vintage aircraft that lacks precise targeting, nighvision capabilities? Which may result in huge collateral damage. Not to mention the logistical nightmare of maintaining such an old aircraft.

That where the pod comes in...

 

[leftfordead]

Nope, Pakistan should buy what they need, but the U.S. Congress will have objections, and You agree
tat their suspicions arewell founded.


That where the pod comes in...

If a member like you can figure it out that we can run bombing on militants hideout with 80's or 70 ear warplanes than why buying F-16's ? American are not stupid to understand that we are buying them for both purposes, so if they are into sell this to PAF than do it, and if not just say that we don't want to sell this jet to Pakistan because we don't trust you guys .. simple , why keeping the matter and gain attention ?..

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Hi,
And then what about the funds spent on logistics and support for the F-16s in the past 33 years?.
You can't undo what's been done, PAF needs F-16s as it operates a sizable number of them, and spent a sizable amount of resources on them, hence it's going for F-16s, rather than any other bird.

The guy I replied to said that the F-16 was obsolete.
My argument was that a task that can be done by a Vietnam war vintage aircraft (with a pod),
certainly could be done by the F-16, ergo it is not obsolete in the fight vs Taliban.
If the task is to fight fifth generation fighters, then it is different, but that won't convince the U.S. congress to approve.

If a member like you can figure it out that we can run bombing on militants hideout with 80's or 70 ear warplanes than why buying F-16's ? American are not stupid to understand that we are buying them for both purposes, so if they are into sell this to PAF than do it, and if not just say that we don't want to sell this jet to Pakistan because we don't trust you guys .. simple , why keeping the matter and gain attention ?..

Like everywhere else there are different groups within the U.S. administration, and they may differ in opinion.

 

[leftfordead]

Like everywhere else there are different groups within the U.S. administration, and they may differ in opinion.

its not about different Opinion , its about taking money from the Indian lobby and stop any sale to Pakistan to get support and dollars ..It happens all the time with every deal we make with US, from Older F-16's , Harpoon , OHP , AH-Z1 or hell fire missile , the thing is that it is so unprofessional to keep this deal struck for personal gains , and yet majority of congress criticize us for not doing much .. and the Aid they are trying to block is infact is from coalition support fund

 

[IceCold]

That where the pod comes in...

Which kind of pod and how would it be linked to a vintage aircraft, which aircraft would it be and how would we incorporate such an aircraft in PAF doctrine? Please enlighten us all

 

[PakEye]

F-16s right platform for Pakistan's counter terrorism war: US

1985 pressler amendment was the base for the Pakistan's own Fighter Jet JF-17 thunder by the investment of $ 500 million as Joint venture with China and now under Indian Lobbying US Congress disagree to supply F-16 from the collation fund than why we pay $ 700 million to USA for sanction prone F-16 with the condition to not use in against our eastern enemy.
Now we can invest this $ 700 for New Versions of JF-17 thunder for sanction free our own Platform.

 

[That Guy]

1. If Qatar dives from a cliff will Pakistan do the same?
2. Qatar is not asking for US financing of it's F-16s, Pakistan is
3. My response was to the quote which claimed Pakistan is fighting American War in Afghanistan hence it deserves aid while infact Pakistan has hampered US efforts by sheltering Taliban from the very beginning like during airlift of evil, Had a Qatari made the same assertion, my reply would have been to him.

First of all, the so called "airlift of evil" was never proven, and in fact was disputed by the US itself. To this day, the US denies that it ever happened, so there goes that argument.

Second, this started out as a US war, not a Pakistani war. Pakistan joined because the US forced it to, so by denying aid, the US is showing Pakistan that it was a mistake to join the war on terror (which has cost Pakistan, by some estimates, upwards of $200 billion dollars in economic development).

As for the Qatari base, the US approved it, and to this day the US still doesn't consider the Afghan taliban to be terrorists.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Which kind of pod and how would it be linked to a vintage aircraft, which aircraft would it be and how would we incorporate such an aircraft in PAF doctrine? Please enlighten us all

I didnt say that You should use a vintage aircraft, I said that such an aircraft would be up to the
task, given that the targetting capabilities were improved, using a pod.
Examples of suitable Vietnam War plane are the A6-E Intruder and the F-111F both introduced
in 1970. Fully capable of delivering stuff with precision.
Therefore, in the fight against the Taliban, the F-16 is not obsolete.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I didnt say that You should use a vintage aircraft, I said that such an aircraft would be up to the
task, given that the targetting capabilities were improved, using a pod.
Examples of suitable Vietnam War plane are the A6-E Intruder and the F-111F both introduced
in 1970. Fully capable of delivering stuff with precision.
Therefore, in the fight against the Taliban, the F-16 is not obsolete.

The truth is there is no wrong or right in this. Pakistan will pursue it's interest. Pak will not buy a aircraft that is entirely specific to the Taliban. For economic reasons your not going to be platform that has one faceted use. PAF is not there just to sort out Taliban. Therefore any platforms bought will have to tick maximum boxes for them to be inducted into service over at least two decades.

When I am looking to buy a new car I choose something that will do all things that I might need doing over the next few years. Therefore F-16 is the aircraft of choice. It has across spectrum use and will tie in with the PAF infrstructure already in place. Without doubt those F-16s would be used against India if need arose. Assuming anything else would be as absurd as hoping Sweden will not use any of it's assets against Russia if need arises.

How things play out are dependant not on the merits of the case but all the shenanigans that go on in Washington with lobbies pulling strings. India increasingly is getting influence in Washington. That said though all this is pathetic and exposes India's insecurity.

India is nearly 7 times more populous than Pakistan. All things considered equal that mean's a economy 7 times larger. Indian Airforce is far, far larger than PAF. Few F-16s cannot possibly tilt the balance by any stretch of imagination.

Just as comparison Sweden (India) and Estonia (Pak) are about the same level in relative population differantial.

 

[BRAVO_]

i believe Pakistan is a very crucial ally of Americans in south asia because if pakistan change its position on the table which they are slowly chaining though americans will be out of the game coz they cant stay in Afghanistan forever their time is already numberd indians will not offer them the same luxry as pakistan did in past iran will obviously not standing with american russia and china both have already shaked their hands the only card in this entire block which is still helpful is Pakistan.

so pakistan should flex some of its mussels but unfortunately we never had a good leadership

 

[MastanKhan]

When I am looking to buy a new car I choose something that will do all things that I might need doing over the next few years. Therefore F-16 is the aircraft of choice. It has across spectrum use and will tie in with the PAF infrstructure already in place. Without doubt those F-16s would be used against India if need arose. Assuming anything else would be as absurd as hoping Sweden will not use any of it's assets against Russia if need arises.

Hi,

Regarding the car example----you will be in the exception---most of the cars are purchased on emotion and show---at least here in the U S---almost 70-80 %.

I have had customers mad at me when I told them about the utility of looking at a different vehicle---.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

How is Pakistan fighting American war in Afghanistan? Are there Pakistani troops in Afghanistan battling Taliban? No.. They are infact sheltering Taliban.

For more information read .. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3340165/ns/world_news-brave_new_world/t/airlift-evil/

For all of your types who say Pakistan is sheltering the Taliban, kindly take your own head out of dark tight crevices. Pakistan has lost over 50,000 people at the hands of the Taliban, and State sponsored mercenaries (that means India), since 911. Pakistan's economy has greatly suffered in the long awaited cleanup of the mess that the earlier US administrations left at the end of the Cold War. Pakistan continues to suffer, both militarily and economically, at the hands of the mercenaries who claim to be Taliban. However, Pakistan seems to have made up its mind about its future and trying its best to root out the evil of armed mercenaries in FATA areas and rest of the country.

For all y'all who say Pakistan is sheltering the Taliban, have you ever been to Pakistan? Have you met anyone from Pakistan? Have you seen our tears when our Children are slaughtered in schools? Have you seen our anxieties when there are state sponsored actors found and arrested in our cities? Have you asked our hearts what we really want?

Regarding these aircraft, it is in US interest to sell the birds, to keep the US industry going. These offers come from US administration. These 8 aircraft are not critical to the defence of the airspace, or to COIN operations. However, the Pakistani F16s are well upgraded to defend the airspace of the country, or to undertake interdiction operations against the mercenaries in the FATA area.

If US doesn't sell, it is their loss not ours. Future administrations will continue to engage Pakistan; like it or not, you cannot change geography, and Pakistan will continue to have a role, whether the neighbours squeal with hammroid pain as they usually do, while they climb their S400 launchers in raised position.

 

[MastanKhan]

another retard logic on PDF , why I am not surprised ..
so you want Pakistan to buy defense stuff just to kill Taliban , when we are surrounded by hostile neighbors from three side ? let me know if NATO buy their equipment just to fight Taliban ... NO ..
they buy or equip their military to have Russian's in mind ..

Advice , sometimes its best to stay quite rather than speak and prove yourself to be retarded ..

Sir,

And as a 16 years old---it is better for you to listen listen. A P is a very learned person---listen and understand what he is trying to say.

 

[IceCold]

I didnt say that You should use a vintage aircraft, I said that such an aircraft would be up to the
task, given that the targetting capabilities were improved, using a pod.
Examples of suitable Vietnam War plane are the A6-E Intruder and the F-111F both introduced
in 1970. Fully capable of delivering stuff with precision.

In your initial post you mentioned a vintage aircraft can do the job as well with a pod, hence my question. Now with your examples of F-111 and A6-E intruder the next question arises of maintaining these jets to keep them in flying conditions. How do you suppose an airforce with a limited budget such as PAF would be able to do that and how would it be cost beneficial over the existence platforms that we already have and the infrastructure in place to support them.

Therefore, in the fight against the Taliban, the F-16 is not obsolete.

I dont think anybody disagrees with that. Not just the taliban but even against India if Push comes to shove but when we say its past its due date thats because of the baggage these F-16s come with. If somebody like Trump wins over, rest assured we might not even get spares for the F-16s yet alone new jets and we just dont want to see the era of 90s being repeated over again.

 

[MilSpec]

And why would we use a vintage aircraft that lacks precise targeting, nighvision capabilities? Which may result in huge collateral damage. Not to mention the logistical nightmare of maintaining such an old aircraft.

COIN ops for fighting taliban for afghan air force - Super Tucano

COIN ops for fighting taliban for PAF - F16 Fighting falcon.

Yupp sounds legit.

The truth is there is no wrong or right in this. Pakistan will pursue it's interest. Pak will not buy a aircraft that is entirely specific to the Taliban. For economic reasons your not going to be platform that has one faceted use. PAF is not there just to sort out Taliban. Therefore any platforms bought will have to tick maximum boxes for them to be inducted into service over at least two decades.

When I am looking to buy a new car I choose something that will do all things that I might need doing over the next few years. Therefore F-16 is the aircraft of choice. It has across spectrum use and will tie in with the PAF infrstructure already in place. Without doubt those F-16s would be used against India if need arose. Assuming anything else would be as absurd as hoping Sweden will not use any of it's assets against Russia if need arises.

How things play out are dependant not on the merits of the case but all the shenanigans that go on in Washington with lobbies pulling strings. India increasingly is getting influence in Washington. That said though all this is pathetic and exposes India's insecurity.

India is nearly 7 times more populous than Pakistan. All things considered equal that mean's a economy 7 times larger. Indian Airforce is far, far larger than PAF. Few F-16s cannot possibly tilt the balance by any stretch of imagination.

Just as comparison Sweden (India) and Estonia (Pak) are about the same level in relative population differantial.

Keyword being "Buy"