US Gives Pakistan Contract to Build 1000 Humvees

[BATMAN]

man the point of my post was to show that we have to get out of this mentality of like if we give them this they will attack us with it or misuse it against us. that goes for both US and Pakistan. and it really pi$ me off when i hear PAK f-16 news that "pakistan is preparing a war aganist india and they may use it aganist india". what BS.

Dear I was just highlighting another dimension (for fun) of such deals and I fully agree with your point.

 

[Nishan_101]

Salam,
ya i heard on GEO that U.S has ordered 1000 tanks for afghnistan coz as u people know that M1A1 & other collision forces tanks broke-up in battle even in Iraq where most counters takes place in cities(If u see nat-geo). I wish that U.S will give ToT 2 HIT for puttin latest electronics and sensors on their tanks. Also they should give 500 more orders for Iraq & other vehicles orders 2.

 

[XYON]

Salam,
ya i heard on GEO that U.S has ordered 1000 tanks for afghnistan coz as u people know that M1A1 & other collision forces tanks broke-up in battle even in Iraq where most counters takes place in cities(If u see nat-geo). I wish that U.S will give ToT 2 HIT for puttin latest electronics and sensors on their tanks. Also they should give 500 more orders for Iraq & other vehicles orders 2.

1. Please do not believe everything that is reported on GEO!

2. The American Forces do not operate non-US equipment! So Talha and the likes at HIT are out!

3. HIT has had a lot of problems with manufacturing the US APCM113 due to sanctions etc. I doubt if in the medium term HIT would be upto accepting another US-origin production of a tank or APC!

Once Bitten! Twice as SHY!

 

[T-Rex]

Pakistan should be glad that it was not awarded the contract for building the toilet seats of Pentagon. Building a thousand APCs is definitely more honourable than building toilet seats. The way Pakistan's "ally' has been treating Pakistan, it seemed to me that Pakistan might be the last state to get any contract from its ally. Pakistan "ally" must be in an urgent need to prove its goodwill towards Pakistan.

 

[fatman17]

1. Please do not believe everything that is reported on GEO!

2. The American Forces do not operate non-US equipment! So Talha and the likes at HIT are out!

3. HIT has had a lot of problems with manufacturing the US APCM113 due to sanctions etc. I doubt if in the medium term HIT would be upto accepting another US-origin production of a tank or APC!

Once Bitten! Twice as SHY!

epool-u really need to come up with some solid-proof to back-up your statements. the APC is now a 100% in-digenous product. i have not heard anything of this sort! there are no US sanctions

 

[XYON]

epool-u really need to come up with some solid-proof to back-up your statements. the APC is now a 100% in-digenous product. i have not heard anything of this sort! there are no US sanctions

HIT's APC factory was under US sanctions from 1998-2003 or so in which time they were unable to find the kits required from the US licensee (the name of the US company skips my mind at this stage) to complete the APCM113's for the Army. In that time, and for the first time in its history around 1998 or so HIT had also publicly advertised for a tender for the APCM113 kits. This was done under sheer frustration after zero response at that time from the US. Eventually and after buying aluminum sheets/ engines/ tracks etc from various vendors, HIT completed its task and supplied the Army with its 2000 or so units of APCM113. Why do you suppose and after all these years HIT has not entered into a contract with the US on anything let alone the manufacturing of APCM113? HIT is now completely depending on Chinese, Italian and indigenous components to complete its vehicles. This is the reason HIT went local.

Sorry to have given the impression about the US sanctions right now, but essentially the US DoS and DoD treats requests from Pakistan the same way as it does from Afghanistan and Iraq, so while things change....they essentially remain the same. Sorry do not have any Google articles to quote here but what is written above is absolutely correct unless you could prove otherwise!

 

[nightcrawler]

Salamz
this really upsets me a lot perhaps we be a scapegoat in war on terror. If they really want to give us such a order they must provide us wth proper technical advancements. the only reason I get is that PAK can provider cheaper labour force!! than any other Europ country

 

[blain2]

epool-u really need to come up with some solid-proof to back-up your statements. the APC is now a 100% in-digenous product. i have not heard anything of this sort! there are no US sanctions

Fat sir,

All of the US M-113s were built from Semi-Knocked down Kits. Epool is correct that we were impacted by their sanctions. The new versions of APC Saad etc. are being manufactured in Pakistan but does not have anything to do with the deal for the original M-113s signed with the US.

This article sheds light on the Pakistani variations and their differences with the original US M-113s that were received in SKKs.

Armoured recovery vehicle is latest addition to Talha family

Key Points
The Al Hadeed armoured recovery vehicle is the lastest addition to HIT's Talha series of armoured personnel carriers
The Al Hadeed will be able to recover vehicles weighing up to 20 tonnes


Pakistan's Heavy Industries Taxila (HIT) unveiled the Al Hadeed armoured recovery vehicle (ARV) - the latest addition to its Talha series of armoured personnel carriers (APCs) - during April's Defence Services Asia exhibition in Kuala Lumpur.

The Al-Hadeed ARV, which has yet to enter quantity production, is fitted with a roof-mounted hydraulically operated crane that can lift 3 tonnes.

A hydraulic winch is mounted in the rear of the vehicle leading out through the lowered rear ramp. It can be used to recover vehicles weighing up to 20 tonnes when the two rear hydraulic stabilisers are lowered.

There are at least two fire-support versions of the standard Talha APC. The Mouz is fitted with a pedestal-mounted Swedish Saab Bofors Dynamics RBS-70 laser-guided surface-to-air missile (SAM) system. This can also be removed from the Mouz and deployed on the ground. A roof-mounted 12.7 mm machine gun (MG) is provided for local defence.

The Maaz is armed with the locally manufactured 3,000 m range Baktar Shikan anti-tank guided weapon (ATGW) and a 12.7 mm MG for local defence.

Baseline Talha APCs entered quantity production for the Pakistan Army several years ago and a batch of vehicles has also been supplied to the Multi-National Security Transition - Command - Iraq, which were delivered in 2006.

The Talha APC is very similar to the now BAE Systems Ground Systems M113 series APC that was manufactured under licence at HIT. Many of these have been upgraded by HIT to the enhanced M113A1/M113A2 standard.

Also expected to enter production at HIT in 2008 or 2009 is the Saad APC. This is similar to the Talha but has a longer chassis and six road wheels on either side, giving it greater internal volume and payload.

While the M113 series and Talha are powered by a US Detroit Diesel 6V-63 series engine coupled to an Allison TX 100-1 automatic transmission, the Saad has a new German powerpack.

This consists of an MTU 6V TE20 V-6 diesel developing 350/400 hp, coupled to a German ZF LSG 1000 automatic transmission. This gives a higher power-to-weight ratio and increased top speed.

HIT has also proposed an armoured infantry fighting vehicle (AIFV) based on the upgraded M113 called the Al-Hamza. This has firing ports in the rear troop compartment and a roof-mounted Chinese WAT 314T turret, armed with a 25 mm cannon and 7.62 mm co-axial MG.

Finally, there is a stretched load carrier based on a modified M113 series chassis called the Al-Qaswa.

The HIT facility continues to upgrade older main battle tanks (MBTs) for the Pakistani Army as well as continuing production of the Al Khalid MBT, which was developed in association with China North Industries Corporation (NORINCO).

Further enhancements of the Al Khalid are now under way, including enhanced protection and the installation of a defensive aids system to enhance survivability against ATGWs.

COMMENT
The US-developed M113 series APC has been used in large numbers by the Pakistan Army for many years and is its standard vehicle in this class.

Further development of this vehicle by Pakistan has not only saved valuable foreign exchange but also allowed the country to offer enhanced versions such as the Talha on the export market.

Standard production HIT Talha APC without roof-mounted 12.7 mm MG installed (HIT)

 

[echo 1]

now dont be so ignorant like the rest. then in according to your logic US has every right to not give pakistan anything let alone F-16s MLU which are desperately needed! and mind you for that money you cant even get a JF-17 which is no where near a MLU M3!

I am just trying to bring up the point that we were done over in the past. How will we know if this might happen again. Execpt through Afganistan this time.

 

[fatman17]

fair point blain2 - my understanding is still clear. since engines/power-packs are considered non-lethal items they have not come under specific US sanctions. manufacturing different versions of APCs by HIT is merely upgrading the original APC design to meet local conditions / requirements in a cost-effective manner. the US has not not approved any 3rd party deals to acquire used APCs (113s) from surplus stocks of other countries. the last deal of 800 german APCs is being delivered.
PA has taken a 2-track strategy here. 1) to quickly build-up mechanized strength by buying from 3rd parties and 2) HIT producing the new version albeit slowly (25-30 / year)

 

[Prodigy17]

Pakistan should be glad that it was not awarded the contract for building the toilet seats of Pentagon. Building a thousand APCs is definitely more honourable than building toilet seats. The way Pakistan's "ally' has been treating Pakistan, it seemed to me that Pakistan might be the last state to get any contract from its ally. Pakistan "ally" must be in an urgent need to prove its goodwill towards Pakistan.

First please update your knowledge on military equipment. We are talking about Humvee here which is a multipurpose wheeled jeep as against an APC which is a tracked vehicle. Secondly, you can keep your assumptions to yourself because if u want to discuss about our ally, please come on the relevant thread. well, atleast we can build something so someone can think about getting something from us, see yourself and then post outrageous comments.