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US GDP to leave China behind

US GDP lead will extend to $9-10T this year, with US GDP crossing $30T in 2025 and $40T within a decade. Good luck to China
What matters more to China is China is already the world biggest trading nation, export nation, surplus nation, industrial nation, agricultural nation, manufacturing nation, mining nation, shipping nation.. how about US, What US still has other than an inflated GDP number by hyper inflation and bloated stock market?
 
Economic think tanks don’t give a s**t about real GDP. Nominal GDP is real geopolitical power

The sooner you come to terms with that the better.

Instead of typing so much, why don't you show how US GDP growth was 2.1% in 2022? I am sure everyone here would like to know the calculation. A school kid should be able to do that calculation, so easy for you. Go ahead.
 
Even this is changing really fast

Competition is good for everyone, especially consumers. Hope what your saying is true.
 
US GDP will exceed $40T in less than a decade, and China is decelerating into catastrophic demographic decline in the 2030s and beyond. China is looking at sub 3% growth before 2030.

China is unlikely to ever surpass US GDP


China's real GDP has passed the US a long time ago in 2013

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China's economy uses twice as much electricity as the US:
IMG_0875.png


Buys twice as many cars:
IMG_0877.jpeg


Consumption of steel, cement, semiconductors, refeigerators, etc. are far larger in China than the US.

China produces and consumes far more of practically every good. It is a much larger actually economy than the US. By a wide margin.
 
Chinese GDP has no real value as Chinese artificially inflate their GDP figures

its like Chinese science publications most they are fake
View attachment 955185

The median real growth rate projection for the US is ~1.8% in the long run.

Assuming equal inflation, China will still catch up with the US eventually as long as it can grow faster than 1.8%. The long term projected inflation is ~2% for the US.

The depreciating RMB is a temporary phenomenon due to different monetary policy cycles. The USD can't possibly appreciate against the RMB every year to make up for the lower real growth rate in the US.

In fact, the USD/RMB will likely fall back to the 6-7 range after the US lowers interest rates. The Fed's fund rate is projected to start falling in 2024, and reach ~2.5% in the longer run.
US GDP will exceed $40T in less than a decade, and China is decelerating into catastrophic demographic decline in the 2030s and beyond. China is looking at sub 3% growth before 2030.

China is unlikely to ever surpass US GDP
China's GDP relies on manufacturing and high-tech. The US GDP relies on finance and exchange rates...

Who knows whose GDP is fake.
 
What is this bullshit?

China is about to surpass USA in Nominal GDP in a matter of years. Perhaps as early as 2028.
 
I see the ‘we are better than you’ evolution of thread as predicted.

China’s prosperity is ground breaking in such a short of time. Future trajectory is heavily dependent on continuation of past trajectory. That seems very unlikely.

Part of it is natural: population decline, and misplaced population male/femaleratio, and that the nation will get older before it gets more rich.

This can happen in an emerging economy.

But equally importantly, is the governance style and values that determined its success in the last 20 years won’t be there for the next 20. Xi crowning himself as king and keep ruling. Obsession with Taiwan and interference in every aspect of the business. And making your cabinet members disappear making it very difficult to continue to attract foreign capital.
 
China "path to prosperity" is them finally joining the WTO and finally letting in western investment. There's no secret to it.

People forget that Chinese poverty are imposed on them by Mao. And after his death and Deng finally allowing the chinese to start a business
Here comes the logical question.

1. Has India not joined the WTO?

2. No foreign companies investing in India?

3. So what makes India poorer than Bangladesh?
 
I see the ‘we are better than you’ evolution of thread as predicted.

China’s prosperity is ground breaking in such a short of time. Future trajectory is heavily dependent on continuation of past trajectory. That seems very unlikely.

Part of it is natural: population decline, and misplaced population male/femaleratio, and that the nation will get older before it gets more rich.

This can happen in an emerging economy.

But equally importantly, is the governance style and values that determined its success in the last 20 years won’t be there for the next 20. Xi crowning himself as king and keep ruling. Obsession with Taiwan and interference in every aspect of the business. And making your cabinet members disappear making it very difficult to continue to attract foreign capital.
We all know that xi is a pig is a dog.

but. What makes you think that democratic China will give up military force to unify Taiwan?

To promote US dollar debt.
 
The Yuan was around 6.3/USD in 2012.

Again, the fall in share of nominal GDP is only temporary due to much higher inflation in the US and a strong USD due to interest rate hikes, not due to fundamental higher real GDP growth. You're not going to rely on a depreciating Yuan and red hot inflation to outpace real growth in the long term.

The Yuan is not going to depreciate 10% every year and hit 15 Yuan/USD by 2030 or whatsoever.



Japan is in a huge price bubble back in 1995 which affected their competitiveness in international markets.

Japan's nominal to PPP ratio is around 1.9 at its peak in 1995:

View attachment 955558

Which means, price levels in Japan was around 1.9x of the US's back in 1995. For comparison, currently Bermuda has the highest PPP ratio at ~1.2x.

View attachment 955575


After decades of deflation/currency depreciation, Japan's price level relative to the US has dropped from 1.9 in 1995 to about ~0.7-0.8 in recent years, on par with other developed countries like Germany and France. So deflation in Japan is more like 'normalization' of its price levels relative to the rest of the developed world.

OTOH, China's nominal to PPP ratio is around 0.6. How much 'cheaper' can it get?

View attachment 955562

You can't just plonk Japan's past experience to China without understanding what other fundamental factors are at play. Japan is just too expensive relative to the rest of the world back in 1995, and decades of deflation/depreciation is actually just a normalization of Japan's price levels. It's different for China, which currently has a PPP ratio of ~0.6.

You must be inhaling copium if you think the US can remain its ~$7tril lead simply by getting more expensive or that China will get cheaper every year to make up for the difference in real growth rate.

In fact I see China's inflation outpacing other developed countries in the medium term and reach a PPP ratio of ~0.7-0.8 like other developed countries, as a shrinking labor supply pushes up wages and costs. Gone are the days when China has endless supply of cheap labor working in factories. Like the developed countries, it's natural that more of their youth wants to work in a cushy office job as the economy progresses.
Was about to waste twenty minutes to type this but then I realized that would be twenty minutes of my life I’d never get back lol

China's real GDP has passed the US a long time ago in 2013

View attachment 955665

China's economy uses twice as much electricity as the US:
View attachment 955665

Buys twice as many cars:
View attachment 955666

Consumption of steel, cement, semiconductors, refeigerators, etc. are far larger in China than the US.

China produces and consumes far more of practically every good. It is a much larger actually economy than the US. By a wide margin.
The answer is obvious when you just look at basic production and consumption figures. But there is a lot of cope and denial here.
 
The Yuan was around 6.3/USD in 2012.

Again, the fall in share of nominal GDP is only temporary due to much higher inflation in the US and a strong USD due to interest rate hikes, not due to fundamental higher real GDP growth. You're not going to rely on a depreciating Yuan and red hot inflation to outpace real growth in the long term.

The Yuan is not going to depreciate 10% every year and hit 15 Yuan/USD by 2030 or whatsoever.



Japan is in a huge price bubble back in 1995 which affected their competitiveness in international markets.

Japan's nominal to PPP ratio is around 1.9 at its peak in 1995:

View attachment 955558

Which means, price levels in Japan was around 1.9x of the US's back in 1995. For comparison, currently Bermuda has the highest PPP ratio at ~1.2x.

View attachment 955575


After decades of deflation/currency depreciation, Japan's price level relative to the US has dropped from 1.9 in 1995 to about ~0.7-0.8 in recent years, on par with other developed countries like Germany and France. So deflation in Japan is more like 'normalization' of its price levels relative to the rest of the developed world.

OTOH, China's nominal to PPP ratio is around 0.6. How much 'cheaper' can it get?

View attachment 955562

You can't just plonk Japan's past experience to China without understanding what other fundamental factors are at play. Japan is just too expensive relative to the rest of the world back in 1995, and decades of deflation/depreciation is actually just a normalization of Japan's price levels. It's different for China, which currently has a PPP ratio of ~0.6.

You must be inhaling copium if you think the US can remain its ~$7tril lead simply by getting more expensive or that China will get cheaper every year to make up for the difference in real growth rate.

In fact I see China's inflation outpacing other developed countries in the medium term and reach a PPP ratio of ~0.7-0.8 like other developed countries, as a shrinking labor supply pushes up wages and costs. Gone are the days when China has endless supply of cheap labor working in factories. Like the developed countries, it's natural that more of their youth wants to work in a cushy office job as the economy progresses.

@Mista I must say I enjoy reading your posts. There are at times I don't always agree what you say, but you have a good way to show your logic and points. I hope rest here can take sometime and read your posts thoroughly.
 
What matters more to China is China is already the world biggest trading nation, export nation, surplus nation, industrial nation, agricultural nation, manufacturing nation, mining nation, shipping nation.. how about US, What US still has other than an inflated GDP number by hyper inflation and bloated stock market? As long as China can keep these real sense titles, China cares much less about inflation and exchange rate based, misleading dollar based GDP number. this number reflects nothing now.


But equally importantly, is the governance style and values that determined its success in the last 20 years won’t be there for the next 20. Xi crowning himself as king and keep ruling. Obsession with Taiwan and interference in every aspect of the business. And making your cabinet members disappear making it very difficult to continue to attract foreign capital.
Xi wasn't in the office yesterday, he has been the president for over a decade now, the past decade was argubly the best quality growth period in the Chinese history. his capability as a top leader had long been proved by time.
 
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During Xi's administration, China develops so fast and the west suddenly realized that China had reached a position to challenge the centuries old western global domination, so the west turns all its might against China hoping to contain China's future growth. China and Xi never picked a fight with the west, it's the west being hell bent to pick a fight with China, with or without Xi, the west will do the same, it's because of China's development level, not of any specific leaders. Blaming Xi for the current tension between China and the west is the most ridiculous lie ever, what a deeply brainwashed mind by the western media will believe such a pathetic lie?
 
The answer is obvious when you just look at basic production and consumption figures. But there is a lot of cope and denial here.

A lot of cope until they get down to numbers and brass tacks. And then it hits them like a fist in the face:

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China is a much bigger real economy and can fund and build things on a scale the US can never afford.
IMG_0880.jpeg


US beats China on financial "instruments" and $500 haircuts though.
 
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