Us F-35 Lightning II Grounded Again..!

[Juice]

How do you tell if a program is light -years ahead of its rivals? The amount of time the need to work out issues. If this program was 4th gen... few issues. The fact that these issues come up (for example...F22 oxy system... shows that these are years ahead) Oxy systems are old...the fact there are issues show that these ones are not run of the mill as all old fighters.

 

[Chogy]

No I would not claim that I know that much in military aviation experience but I do know that perhaps the J-20 and the T-50 are going to be available around the time the F-35 comes out and both those planes show great potential and it was my understanding that those are pegged to go against the F-22.

That is a hopelessly optimistic statement. It takes many, many years for a prototype to become operational. It makes me laugh when people talk about PAK-FA's and J-20's whupping up on fighters that are currently operational. They are only prototypes.

 

[khurasaan1]

The F-35 is a far more 'finished product' than both the J-20 and the T-50. The F-35 variants are also further developed than both of those aircrafts as they are, let alone IF they can have variants. The time span between a flying demonstrator and actual deployment is about ten years, and that is given as capable a country as US. So you go right on believing that the J-20 will be competitive with the F-35 at its deployment.

Oh comeon now...U cant claim anything which is not even proven in the field yet.....its/F-35 still in the testing mode....?????

 

[khurasaan1]

How do you tell if a program is light -years ahead of its rivals? The amount of time the need to work out issues. If this program was 4th gen... few issues. The fact that these issues come up (for example...F22 oxy system... shows that these are years ahead) Oxy systems are old...the fact there are issues show that these ones are not run of the mill as all old fighters.

Come on man everyshopkeeper praises his stuff and finds fault with otherz shopkeepers stuff.....
Old saying is "seeing is believing"......
F-35 is still in testing mode not reliable yet......
every country who got money can develop stealth fighter.......its not that hard technology .....everything takes money nowadays......and "Time is money or vice versa".......
China has that/money so they can develop wahtever they want and with the required accuracy and quality.........

 

[Mosamania]

Actually even if you dumb 1 trillion dollars int he project and you do not have the technology required to make it it will still be a worse aircraft than those who made it with a couple of billion but they already have the technology... The world is not as easy as you make it look dude.

 

[Obambam]

Actually even if you dumb 1 trillion dollars int he project and you do not have the technology required to make it it will still be a worse aircraft than those who made it with a couple of billion but they already have the technology... The world is not as easy as you make it look dude.

Polished Gem vs Uncut Gem

 

[amalakas]

That is a hopelessly optimistic statement. It takes many, many years for a prototype to become operational. It makes me laugh when people talk about PAK-FA's and J-20's whupping up on fighters that are currently operational. They are only prototypes.

I am sorry chogy, with all due respect, the F-35 is not operational.

there are scores of issues yet to be solved as illustrated time and time again. I am not a big fan of that plane, and I am sorry but both the J-20 and the T-50 'seem' to enjoy a lot more confidence by their respective design teams, in terms of how quickly the programs are evolving.

I am not examining if any of the 3 planes will be stealthier than the other, I am just saying it seems that the schedules are progressing far faster on the other two programs.

The russians were saying that the T-50 will be the main competitor for the F-35, but between the lines they were indicating that the plane will be no worst operationaly than the F-22. Usually when the russians make a weapon system the 'experts' should listen ..

it's not like the russians used to make paper planes up to now and we should dismiss them.

I would say that the F-35 hasn't yet cleared the ..cancelation danger..

 

[nightcrawler]

there are scores of issues yet to be solved as illustrated time and time again. I am not a big fan of that plane, and I am sorry but both the J-20 and the T-50 'seem' to enjoy a lot more confidence by their respective design teams, in terms of how quickly the programs are evolving.

Because of money injections from China & India respectively

I am not examining if any of the 3 planes will be stealthier than the other, I am just saying it seems that the schedules are progressing far faster on the other two programs.

The russians were saying that the T-50 will be the main competitor for the F-35, but between the lines they were indicating that the plane will be no worst operationaly than the F-22. Usually when the russians make a weapon system the 'experts' should listen ..

it's not like the russians used to make paper planes up to now and we should dismiss them.

I would say that the F-35 hasn't yet cleared the ..cancelation danger..

Yes you are right..but feel it that way that fighting plane with a plane isn't a cheap business at all thats why the fully tested & operational SAM & AirDef systems is sitting around Moscow

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

f35 is time waste

 

[blackops]

Lol its great to see how pwople are underestimating the f35 its no joke man agreed there have been delays and cost over runs but hey its not. a 4gen fighter but 5 gen tell me have u seen a n pakfa or n j 20 no i would have loved to see. F35 in inaf colours

 

[Mosamania]

Lol its great to see how pwople are underestimating the f35 its no joke man agreed there have been delays and cost over runs but hey its not. a 4gen fighter but 5 gen tell me have u seen a n pakfa or n j 20 no i would have loved to see. F35 in inaf colours

there is a high chance if not already is is that the f-35 is going to be more expensive than the Russian and Chinese stealthers. Also the f-35 is not to be underestimated indeed but its still carries weapons outside for certain missions which compromises its all around stealth it is hyped to be.

 

[somebozo]

Without failures there cannot be success..developing weapons, planes and stealth fighters on a scale never done before in a tedious task so no point laughing over it..Instead laugh when you are trying to save your a$$ from a hovering F-35 ready to strike

 

[gambit]

there is a high chance if not already is is that the f-35 is going to be more expensive than the Russian and Chinese stealthers. Also the f-35 is not to be underestimated indeed but its still carries weapons outside for certain missions which compromises its all around stealth it is hyped to be.

What do you know of these 'certain missions'? Heck, what do you know of 'stealth' in general to be making these kinds of statements?

 

[Mosamania]

What do you know of these 'certain missions'? Heck, what do you know of 'stealth' in general to be making these kinds of statements?

You sir have a tendency of downplaying everyone around you and act superior to everyone. Military aviation maybe your field of expertise but that does not mean the rest of the world is dumber than you regarding this concept. To achieve stealth and avoid radar detection an aircraft must carry weapons Inside that is a general rule (From what I read it is seen as a must and again I could be wrong I never claimed to be an aviation guru)

EDIT: I have read your post in another thread regarding the F-35 and I have to say that I am truly impressed by your military aviation knowledge. You answers a lot of questions I had earlier. However this does not make the F-35 better than say the J-20 and the T-50 simply because the F-35 is American. And when I say better I do not mean all around better I understand that each fighter is somehow unique in what rules they fulfill and how they fulfill them etc. But I mean better as in head to head in same conditions (AWACS SAMs Numbers etc.).

 

[gambit]

To achieve stealth and avoid radar detection an aircraft must carry weapons Inside that is a general rule (From what I read it is seen as a must and again I could be wrong I never claimed to be an aviation guru)

No, you are correct. See here => http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...on-fighter-jet-comparisons-2.html#post2002477

And I also read that the F-35 carries ASRAAMs externally and it also carries the anti-radiation weapons outside. So even though it will add very little CRS to it it will still wont make it qualify as an all around stealth fighter.

The only time when external carry is used is when the arena is deemed sufficiently 'safe' for the F-35 to put its low radar observability as secondary importance.

I know that there is research to make it all internal bays but that still would take even a longer time and would make the F-35 cost even more (It already costs about 180 Million dollars per plane last time I checked).

We ORIGINALLY designed the F-22 and F-35 to internalized their weapons stores. Then we make external carry an option.

Then again you are the master of everything military aviation in the world if you see something faulty in my argument please do correct me I am here to learn not to judge. I made my last statements in regards to my understandings. And here is a little tip when you make a comeback do not just say "I am better" say what you have to refute my statements otherwise it will only make you look like someone who got butthurt over his country's new favorite plane.

Here is what I see: This 'stealth' business has been abused all over the Internet. A major reason why it got so abused is that no one really expect anyone to challenge whatever notions they may hold about this 'stealth' thingie. The longer these notions goes unchallenged, the longer they are held as gospel truths, especially when they are presented with a bias that fit a certain political agenda. Then when these (erroneous) notions are challenged, their holders get quite prickly because now their egos are at stake. I hope you are not that type. A certain demographic on this forum are that way.

I have ALWAYS encourage people to use keyword searches to verify my arguments about aviation in general and this 'stealth' thingie in particular. That encouragement goes to you as well. Take your time and have patience. A lot of publicly available technical information can be quite dry reading.