US describes India as a responsible N-state

[Agent_47]

Yes ofc; but if India stops licking their boots tomorrow guess what sort of N-State they'll turn into

Read this:

SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, was an uneventful day in Pakistan, at least while the sun was high. That evening I was in Karachi, inspecting work at the beautiful gardens of the mausoleum of our founder Quaide-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah. I was happy to be in the city I love.

Little did I know that we were about to be thrust into the front line of yet another war, a war against shadows.

My military secretary came up to me and whispered: an aircraft had crashed into one of the towers of the World Trade Centre in New York City. At first, I dismissed the news report as an accident involving what I thought must have been a light private aircraft. But at the back of my mind there was the nagging thought that this had to be a most peculiar accident. Either the pilot had to be utterly inept to have hit such a tall building, or the plane had to be so totally out of control that it couldn’t be prevented from hitting the tower.

When I returned home, I went directly into a meeting with Karachi’s corps commander. We were deep in discussion when my military secretary slipped into the room and started fiddling with the television set.

I could not believe what I saw. Smoke was billowing out of both towers of the World Trade Centre. People were jumping out of windows. There was sheer panic, utter chaos. Two fuel-laden Boeings full of passengers had been hijacked and deliberately crashed into the twin towers. This could hardly be an accident — it had to be a deliberate, brazen act of terrorism. Two other aircraft had also been hijacked — one had hit the Pentagon; another had gone down in a field in Pennsylvania. Commentators at the time said that second one had been heading for the White House. This was war.

The enormity of the event was palpable. The world’s most powerful country had been attacked on its own soil, with its own aircraft used as missiles. This was a great tragedy, and a great blow to the ego of the superpower. America was sure to react violently, like a wounded bear. If the perpetrator turned out to be al-Qaeda, then that wounded bear would come charging straight toward us.

Al-Qaeda was based in neighbouring Afghanistan under the protection of those international pariahs, the Taleban. Not only that: we were the only country maintaining diplomatic relations with the Taleban and their leader, Mullah Omar. September 11 marked an irrevocable turn from the past into an unknown future. The world would never be the same.

I went to the Governor House. The foreign office advised me to give a statement. I wrote one quickly and said on national television that we condemned this vile act, that we were against all forms of terrorism and stood with America at this appalling time. The next morning I was chairing an important meeting at the Governor’s House when my military secretary told me that the US secretary of state, General Colin Powell, was on the phone. I said I would call back later, but he insisted that I come out of the meeting. Powell was quite candid: "You are either with us or against us."

I took this as a blatant ultimatum. However, contrary to some reports, that conversation did not get into specifics. I told him that we were with the United States against terrorism, having suffered from it for years, and would fight along with his country against it.

When I was back in Islamabad the next day, our director-general of Inter Services Intelligence, who happened to be in Washington, told me on the phone about his meeting with the US deputy secretary of state, Richard Armitage. In what has to be the most undiplomatic statement ever made, Armitage added to what Colin Powell had said to me and told the director-general not only that we had to decide whether we were with America or with the terrorists, but that if we chose the terrorists, then we should be prepared to be bombed back to the Stone Age.

This was a shockingly barefaced threat, but it was obvious that the United States had decided to hit back, and hit back hard.

I made a dispassionate, military-style analysis of our options, weighing the pros and cons.

My decision was based on the wellbeing of my people and the best interests of my country — Pakistan always comes first. I war-gamed the United States as an adversary. There would be a violent and angry reaction if we didn’t support the United States. Thus the question was: if we do not join them, can we confront them and withstand the onslaught? The answer was no, we could not, on three counts.

First was our military weakness as compared with the strength of the United States. Second was our economic weakness. We had no oil, and we did not have the capacity to sustain our economy in the face of an attack. Third, and worst of all, was our social weakness. We lack the homogeneity to galvanise the entire nation into an active confrontation. We could not endure a military confrontation with the United States from any point of view. The ultimate question that confronted me was whether it was in our national interest to destroy ourselves for the Taleban. Were they worth committing suicide over? The answer was a resounding no.

It has famously been said that “short-term gain for long-term pain” is foolhardy, but this is exactly what happened to the allies in the jihad against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, not least the United States, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia.

Source: In the Line of Fire (from Pervaiz Musharraf)

Did u guys ever had guts to stand up to them?
Yes, Ignorance is bliss,
but not like this,

 

[AGHORI]

So much for bragging your Agni-5...Fart is your Agni-5 propulsion...don't you know that?

How did you know? CPC told you that Indians stole "THE FART PROPULSION TECHNOLOGY" invented by the HIGH IQ minds at CPCIMT and put it in their Agni-5? we can't use Chinese technology..its way too advanced for us to understand
for Indian members who don't know, CPCIMT means CPC institute of missile technology.

 

[Sunnny]

Its not because of any proxies.

We have the leverage of dictating our destinies.

We hardly sing their tunes.

Our songs are based on own national interests.

Its kinda difficult to understand.

Tommorow if Russia says the same, ( no need to say as nuclear collaboration with them are decade long) would you say India is Russian proxy??

I know, never. Everybody in pk wants to see India a US proxy and go through what u guys went during and after the glory days.


But sadly we know every moves and play by the rules of the book. Dissappointed? Better be.

These pakistanis are jealous of india and our independent stand and not licking U.S boots.
They want us to do what they have done in past

I suggest you look at the response of China Russia Pakistan Iran at the Afghan conference and India's behaviour and you might just change your mind.

The real reason that India chooses to be American proxy is cos India is scared of China and Pakistan and needs assistance

it will be the last day of the earth when india will be scared of pakistan.
May be china..

 

[IPL5]

US's $1bn Islamabad home is its castle


SLAMABAD - The ambitious US$1 billion plan of the United States to expand its presence in Pakistan's capital city of Islamabad underscores Washington's resolve to consolidate its presence in the region, particularly in pursuit of the endgame in the "war on terror".

This marks the beginning of direct American handling of "war and peace" diplomacy in the region, following the forging of a seamless relationship between the Pakistani military establishment and the US military. (See Pakistan-US plan falls into place Asia Times Online, July 24, 2009.)

Standing in the way are Pakistan's restive tribal areas and the seemingly never-ending - and escalating - Taliban-led insurgency in Afghanistan's Pashtun provinces.

According to reports, the US will spend $405 million on the

reconstruction and refurbishment of its main embassy building in the diplomatic enclave of the capital; $111 million for a new complex to accommodate 330 personnel; and $197 million to construct about 250 housing units.

For this purpose, the US Embassy has acquired about 7.2 hectares of land at what is widely considered a mark-down price of 1 billion rupees (US$12 million), courtesy of the state-run Capital Development Authority. A Turkish firm has already built a 153-room compound for the embassy.

The fortress-like embassy will eventually accommodate close to 1,000 additional personnel being sent to Islamabad as part of the US administration's decision to significantly raise its profile in the country. The new staffers will augment the current 750-strong American contingent already based in Pakistan; this against a sanctioned strength of 350.

"What appears to be more alarming is that this staff surge will include 350 [US] marines. Additionally, the Americans are pressuring Islamabad to allow the import of hundreds of Dyncorp armored personnel carriers," reported Pakistan’s largest English-language daily Dawn.

A spokesman for the US Embassy in Islamabad, Richard W Snelsire, told Asia Times Online that the US was "redoing" the embassy compound as it was 40 years old. He said this was also largely because US aid to Pakistan had tripled to US$1.5 billion a year and therefore additional staff were needed. Snelsire dismissed the report of armored vehicles being used at the embassy and also said the notion of 350 marines being stationed there was "fictitious".

The point can't be denied, though, that the embassy is undergoing massive expansion, and one cannot easily assume all of the new staff will be pencil-pushers.

Indeed, since the last few months of 2008, the Americans have quietly been working on extending their physical footprint in the country.

During this period, about 300 American officials landed at Tarbella, the brigade headquarters of Pakistan's Special Operation Task Force approximately 20 kilometers from Islamabad. They were officially designated as a "training advisory group", according to documents seen by Asia Times Online. (See The gloves are off in Pakistan Asia Times Online, September 23, 2008.)

Investigations by Asia Times Online indicate that this was no simple training program. According to sources directly handling the project, the US bought a huge plot of land at Tarbella, several square kilometers. Twenty large containers were then sent there. They were handled by the Americans, who did not allow any Pakistani officials to inspect them. Given the size of the containers, sources familiar with such shipments believe they carried special arms and ammunition and even possibly tanks and armored vehicles - and certainly nothing to do with any training program.

These developments at Tarbella and now the bigger facility in the heart of Islamabad are reminiscent of American policy in the Middle East, where the Jordanian capital of Amman was turned into a hub for the US's handling of Iraq, Syria and Palestine.

Following the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, the biggest embassy in the world was built in Baghdad. The facility not only provided logistical support to US troops in Iraq, it helped tackle Palestinian jihadi outfits in Jordan and worked to reduce their influence in Syria and Lebanon. It also helped reduce the influence of Iraqi resistance groups based in Jordan and tried to form closer relationships between Israel and Arab countries.

In Pakistan, after Islamabad sided with the US following the September 11, 2001, attacks, the US Central Intelligence Agency established low-key facilities in cities such as Islamabad, Karachi, Quetta and Peshawar. In recent years, increasing numbers of unmanned Predator drones have used Pakistan as a base for attacks against militants inside the country and in Afghanistan.

Contacts close to the top decision-makers in Pakistan tell Asia Times Online that the improved US Embassy will significantly and publicly step up Washington's involvement in the country and beyond.

The immediate targets are the Taliban and al-Qaeda. There is talk that once again the idea of peace dialogue will be explored with them in the border areas of Pakistan near the Afghan border.

Apart from the troubles in Afghanistan, where this month foreign forces are being killed in record numbers, Pakistan's tribal areas have to be "tamed" if the US is to further its regional aims.

In the meantime, infrastructure work necessary to realize these aims is already underway - Pakistan, Afghanistan and some Central Asian republics - notably Uzbekistan and Tajikistan - are building communication links such as roads and railways to enhance regional trade.

It is envisaged that regional economic powerhouse India, at a later stage, will be a part of this trade loop through Pakistan. After some frosty years between Islamabad and Delhi, the US is actively working to get them to resolve their differences, the chief of which is over divided Kashmir.

But first, the war that won't go away in Afghanistan and which has now taken root in Pakistan.

The US and its allies might be thinking of striking deals with some of the Taliban, but leader Mullah Omar is having none of it. He has ordered that all backchannel talks with the Americans through Saudi Arabia and other contacts be severed and that the war against foreign troops be accelerated. (See Taliban will let guns do their talking Asia Times Online, July 14, 2009.)

There has also been a strategic switch in the militant camps of the North Waziristan tribal area where previously Tajik fighters were trained to fight in Afghanistan. They are now returning home, via Turkey, and the Taliban are desperately trying to capture the western Afghan province of Herat to open direct access to the Central Asian states through Turkmenistan.

Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) has abandoned the jihadi assets it built to take on India by closing training camps in Pakistan-administered Kashmir. Many of these fighters are now in the hands of al-Qaeda and there is all likelihood, confirmed by analysts privy to the Pakistani establishment as well as by militants, that if India enters in the grand American game, al-Qaeda will activate these cells for operations in India.

"At the moment, India does not have any direct role in Afghanistan, but if it tries to play one by sending its troops or any other support to the American war, it will be the beginning of Ghazwa-e-Hind [the war on India promised by the Prophet Mohammad as part of the end of the time battles]," retired Lieutenant General Hamid Gul, former head of the ISI, said in a recent television interview.

As much as the US wants to expand its war efforts, inter-connected jihadi and militants groups are already thinking beyond their traditional boundaries to meet the challenge.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002@yahoo.com
Asia Times Online :: South Asia news, business and economy from India and Pakistan

 

[faithfulguy]

No India is their proxy. They look up to white man magic. Like they and their leaders prostrate in front of a white air hostess

But Barack Hussein Obama is no white man.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

How did you know? CPC told you that Indians stole "THE FART PROPULSION TECHNOLOGY" invented by the HIGH IQ minds at CPCIMT and put it in their Agni-5? we can't use Chinese technology..its way too advanced for us to understand
for Indian members who don't know, CPCIMT means CPC institute of missile technology.

Dont be so modest...Fart is cheap propulsion gaz...it only require a good "bragging" compress tank ..the more you brag..the more fart you will rpoduce and then can compress and store into the tanker...with so many Indian's fart...won't take long to fill the Agni-5's tanker and then use it to propulse the missle to mach 10 with ....LMAO

 

[Killswitch]

Another thread derailed.

Some very simple facts:

India has not sold its nuclear technology abroad (like Pakistan).

India has not transferred missile technology to other countries (Like China).

India has not tried to blackmail other countries because it is a nuclear power (North Korea).


I think that's why the US government made this statement. India is not under the NPT, but it does have an excellent track record, which has given it the opportunity to be exempt from the treaty.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Another thread derailed.

Some very simple facts:

India has not sold its nuclear technology abroad (like Pakistan).

India has not transferred missile technology to other countries (Like China).

India has not tried to blackmail other countries because it is a nuclear power (North Korea).


I think that's why the US government made this statement. India is not under the NPT, but it does have an excellent track record, which has given it the opportunity to be exempt from the treaty.

You Indian sure buy that...

 

[ramu]

You Indian sure buy that...

We buy the Indian story as it is the best one around. I am sorry, I don't buy Chinese and Pakistan does not produce much do they ?

 

[lem34]

You Indian sure buy that...

Yep Americans are liars remember WMD in Iraq.

 

[IPL5]

Yep Americans are liars remember WMD in Iraq.

so does pakistan, remember Osama Bin Laden ?

 

[sss112]

Listening to Terrance and Philip doing what they do on South Park is a lot better than reading the posts of many Chinese and Pakistani members. Can't blame them, this is the only place where they can exercise the Freedom of Speech............

 

[danger007]

I guess pakistani's forgetting history.... US stance changed after 9/11 attack... until that Pakistan is so called non-nato ally of USA..... why you guys calling us as west proxy..... do you guys forget how much US backed you during the war's with India.
In 1971 Nixon tried maximum to stop India... he send USA 8th fleet to threaten IN.... asked China to attack India.... But Chinese gave him shock by saying NO-certainly NO ..... Only country helped us and backed us during the bad time is USSR and now Russia.... and for you USA.... Who became lap dog for USA over 6 decades..... We are not technologically advanced.. So we are trying to get maximum benefits from possible sources.... whats wrong with that..... and for Chinese.... we are agreeing China is surely ahead of India... we are not denying the fact..... But we had a right to protect our home...... as you guys talking china developed df-31 in 1970's . we are trying it now... whats wrong with it....

 

[Amolthebest]

We don't need US certificate for responsibility. Most important thing is we AS India CITIZENS ARE CONFIDENT THAT WE ARE RESPONSIBLE NUCLEAR state.About Pakistan don't go into it.

 

[lem34]

We don't need US certificate for responsibility. Most important thing is we AS India CITIZENS ARE CONFIDENT THAT WE ARE RESPONSIBLE NUCLEAR WAR.About Pakistan lets dont don't go into it.

Wow it has taken 211 posts before we get an Indian with a brain lol well done mate