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US Defense Secretary Panetta threatens ground intervention into Pakistan

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India should ensure that there will be no such measures taken by United states in the region.... US expeditionary forces in Pakistan could be disastrous for India in long run. If there is any ground intervention in Pak, India should set asideits differences and help Pakistan.

Im not sure that will set well with many Indians, years of hatred and contempt will have any attack on Pakistan and resulting Pakistani deaths welcomed with glee... Its a sad reality that has made many on both sides lose their humanity when the other is concerned.

Although an attack on Pakistan may not be supported or disapproved by India, they would prefer to play the silent observer and watch events unfold.
Perhaps ensuring that the US hits at places like Muridke via explicit requests..
and other Pakistani sensitive installations via Intel and military liason requests.
 
If killing innocent people is terrorism than Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and various other places should also be considered. Why term terrorist now seem to be only used for Muslims, why stereotype?
Your approach has one intent only: to say that "your people", whom you cannot defend, should be allowed to get away with murder today because "my people" are accused by you of being just as bad in the past. That means I have to take time to explain, and in the meantime you can muddy issues further, rather than tackle the guilt issues straight on.

I have lost three family members in this "war against terrorism" have you lost any loved one's? i think i am being bitter but hey blame it on terrorists please.
Most of my grandparents and aunts and uncles were murdered by the Nazis; I, myself, have had neighbors shot, friends taken hostage, and acquaintances perish in fire in terror attacks perpetrated by Muslims, all right here in America. I don't blame all Muslims for it - my best neighbors, growing up, were Pakistani Muslims - but in my judgment Muslims are especially susceptible to terrorist intimidation. Simply because I'm a Jew and a Talib is a Muslim means that you're supposed to listen to him more than me, yes? And that you're supposed to hope for a more just government under their guidance than under one led by Christians and Jews, yes?

A big lie, you Americans do consider us inferior species, that is why the threatening posture all the time.
Explain this association.

If you can prove the world with false videos and intel that Iraq had WMDs to actually capture its oil
The Iraqi leadership is proud of their role misleading America and the West into thinking Saddam had WMDs; it's not something you can blame on the U.S., at least no the U.S. alone. "False videos" were not a part of it, as I recall, though photographic evidence and testimony from Iraqi defectors was.

I take it, then, that you agree with my assessment that presenting real evidence at the U.N. will be totally useless.

I say you guys have no intel, had there been solid Intel, US would not have given billions in aid, rather it would have punished Pakistan by going to war.
We're NOT the British Empire!

What kind of game are you playing ?? You have the intel but still you don't do anything for years, it just gives one conclusion that you or UN has no intel and after so many years having not presented anything solid, it definitely means Pakistan is not involved in what you say.
If the U.N. has NO intel then you'll have to tell me why the U.N. bothered to classify its information about terrorists for the past six years.
 
It's not about "my people" against "your people" its about saying what's bad is bad, what America has been conducting in name of ""War against terrorism" often exceeds the moral and ethical boundaries. Do you agree on that or not? If you can accept that than we can further discuss.
 
India should ensure that there will be no such measures taken by United states in the region.... US expeditionary forces in Pakistan could be disastrous for India in long run. If there is any ground intervention in Pak, India should set asideits differences and help Pakistan.

you can see it with a much broader and saner approach
in my opinion
India's help souldnt be against USA but for its own interest as you put it
why should any reasonable country want a bigger version of Waziristan of about 180 Million people?
there is no stopping USA, I think not even China, India and Pakistani forces combined (ok add Nepal & Bangladesh for good measure too) can stop USA from turning this region into a wasteland.

with the military hammer as big as America's, its only natural that everything in the world looks like a nail to its administration whether its Republican or Democrat.

the challenge here is to approach the American people, bypassing their mainstream media like Fox and CNN and actually imploring them if thats what they really think their country stands for? it was the public pressure in the end that convinced the Americans to leave Vietnam, otherwise they would have been still dropping Napalms and chemicals. their body count was only a fraction of millions of Vietnamese civilians and Vietcong their GIs and aerial bombardment (Rolling thunder) killed.

looks like USA is stuck on North Waziristan, not sure why it insists on calling it a safe heaven when its constantly under drone attacks. I am sure there will be eventually an army operation there but its a no ending persuit because Taliban simply melt-away and appear somewhere else.

this is why Pakistan proposed the dialog and saw Americans following through, when Taliban offices were opening in UAE/ Doha etc. but the recent American atrocities on the civilians and their habitual demonstration of hatred towards Islam pushed the Taliban out of the talks, but if that was not good enough then Panetta thought that killing 40 odd tribals in an open and peaceful gathering in Pakistan was a good idea and Salala attack was just another reminder that American foreign policy is now only narrowed down to using its hammer.


As far as Al Qaeda is concerned its loving the situation. see today that wherever America employed its war toys has turned into an AQ heaven.

looks like AQ is simply following wherever American foreign policy (hammer) spreads freedom and justice... Somalia, Libya, Iraq are just few new and old examples.
 
It's not about "my people" against "your people" its about saying what's bad is bad, what America has been conducting in name of ""War against terrorism" often exceeds the moral and ethical boundaries. Do you agree on that or not?
No. And I understand perfectly: Pakistanis want to set limits on moral and ethical discussions because so often their conduct falls outside the limits - though they shouldn't always take that personally, since they are products of a very corrupt culture. (Who pays taxes in Pakistan?)

If you can accept that than we can further discuss.
So if you have to set these limits, you have to explain - at least to yourself - why you views merit further discussion with me.
 
No. And I understand perfectly: Pakistanis want to set limits on moral and ethical discussions because so often their conduct falls outside the limits - though they shouldn't always take that personally, since they are products of a very corrupt culture. (Who pays taxes in Pakistan?)

For starters you are in discussion with a tax payer, corruption is everywhere, can you claim American culture and society to be 100% corruption free? My dear friend corruption comes in all forms not only in monetarily form, I doubt you can say that there is no concept of favoritism in your society? If you do accept that than my dear friend you need to clean your own closet before pointing fingers at my people, Talking of MY PEOPLE, Don't you think that i should be responsible for clearing out mess in my home? I don't need a neighbor hood bully breathing down my neck telling me to clear my **** while his own house is stinking.

So if you have to set these limits, you have to explain - at least to yourself - why you views merit further discussion with me.

I am not setting limits, i am trying to get you to agree on a common point, From the sound of it you think you belong to a culture or background where everything and everyone is angelic (which is not the case) and I belong to a culture and background where everything is bad and corrupt (which again is not the case).
 
if they are really trying to protect the terrorists then they are doing an awful job...whether we want it or not is not up to us. but when threatened we do put up a fight and go down fighting, its a natural human trait.
Thanks, that's the most sensible thing any Pakistani has said to me all day. Now we both have to do a good job of figuring out what's threatening us and who to go fight - or not to fight.
 
Im not sure that will set well with many Indians, years of hatred and contempt will have any attack on Pakistan and resulting Pakistani deaths welcomed with glee... Its a sad reality that has made many on both sides lose their humanity when the other is concerned.

Although an attack on Pakistan may not be supported or disapproved by India, they would prefer to play the silent observer and watch events unfold.
Perhaps ensuring that the US hits at places like Muridke via explicit requests..
and other Pakistani sensitive installations via Intel and military liason requests.

Sir,

Although what you are saying exactly depicts most of common Indian folks (fanboys included), rest assured policy makers in New
Delhi have larger foresight than often credited. With US actually sending armed intervention will be a nightmare fore any future growth or India Regional Stakes. We already have China on one side, Getting US bases on the other would be disastrous for us.
I hope what you are suggesting never happens but, If India does stand against US here, It will be a historic gesture and might bring about a change which has been long overdue.
 
One, to operate from secure bases and two, to collect pay and supplies from the ISI.

Well TaimiKhan has answered this perfectly, so you can rebut his argument which you clearly haven't.

List the techniques a citizen may use to escape such brainwashing, notorious_eagle.

Have an open and receptive mind, listen to the views of other and neutral sources instead of only listening to just one point of view. Remove the bias in your head and trust me you will learn a lot more about this world.
 
Yes the Lashkare Taiba was coriginally created to run terrorism within China and Russia. As China is our brotherly country the leader of this group Hafiz Saeed refused to pursue terrorism within China under the guidance of CIA/USA....As a result USA banned this group in his list now they started using East Turkistan movement to pursue their terrorism goals within China and Ex- Russian states.....Mr. Hafiz Saeed admitted in public in one of its interviews that USA has been forcing them to do terrorism within China so that they can destabilize that country, but He refused it so his group got banned..Sir we got so much stuff that U wouldn't even believe ure eyes here........:smokin:

Don't Call me Sir, I am just 26, Further I am A Girl .
 
Don't Call me Sir, I am just 26, Further I am A Girl .
What a beautiful rebuttal to his argument

we all know your a 40 year old Indian living in your mom's basement coming here for the sole purpose of trolling :azn:

Paneta @ kisi Najayz Yahoodi k saaly
This is Pakistan not Iraq nor Afghanistan.
We pakistani will fcuk your army left right and centr
America is playing a dangerous game. :yahoo:
 
Opinion


Panetta’s hubris

Rustam Shah Mohmand

Tuesday, June 12, 2012

Pakistan must be grateful to US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta for articulating a clear, unambiguous US line of action in regard to Pakistan’s perceived inability to proceed against groups that the US sees as dangerous to its forces operating inside Afghanistan and which are supposedly based in the tribal areas.



Now is the time for Pakistan to place its cards on the table and challenge the wholly unsubstantiated assertions of a frustrated man. If the Pakistani establishment rushes to do damage control or launches another “determined” campaign of appeasement, the US bullying is only expected to grow in intensity and ferocity. That is the lesson of history.



The fact that the defence secretary chose to deliver his warning to Pakistan from Delhi and Kabul is significant. That was intended to reinforce his tough message to the rulers of Pakistan. Panetta said the US is running out of patience with Pakistan. In the ongoing war on terror, has the US ever displayed patience, shown any deference to Pakistan’s interests or respect for its sovereignty?



Whether it is the incessant drone campaign that has killed hundreds of innocent people, including women and children, limited ground incursions inside Pakistani territory, a raid deep inside Pakistani territory to eliminate Osama bin Laden and making a mockery of the notion of Pakistan’s sovereignty, the US has never vacillated in its resolve to do whatever it considers best for its own interests. So where has it exercised patience? Let us examine the claim that some militants who are inflicting pain and misery on the coalition forces in Kabul are operating from “sanctuaries” located in the tribal area on Pakistani-Afghan border.



One may ask: on how many occasions in the past ten years have the US forces or their Afghan counterparts been able to intercept, confront, capture or kill those who intrude into Afghanistan, travel more than a hundred miles inside Afghan territory, carry out operations and then safely return to their hideouts in the tribal areas, again traversing a distance of more than a hundred miles?



This failure seems more enigmatic, considering that the coalition forces number 130,000 and are assisted by the more than 160,000-strong Afghan army in addition to more than 50,000 of “contractors” serving as security forces. The Afghan police force is also operating in the area and its strength has gone up to more than 140,000.



Also consider that these forces are equipped with the most sophisticated weapons and they function with the help of a vast surveillance network, radars and a comprehensive human intelligence apparatus.



And there is another dimension to this bizarre theory of sanctuaries. If the sanctuaries do exist, as the defence secretary claims, how and why have the hundreds of US drone strikes missed such targets for a whole decade? When mosques, houses, markets, vehicles, schools, weddings and funeral processions could be targeted and hit with such accuracy, how could the terrorists’ hideouts and sanctuaries be spared? Hitting sanctuaries should have been a top priority for the CIA drone campaign managers. This exposes the absurd rationale of the whole fragile theory that is woven around wholly baseless assumptions.



But this is repeated ad nauseam because Islamabad has never been able to confront its American interlocutors with facts and ground realities. If one were to assume, even for the sake of an argument, that some resistance in the few Afghan provinces that border Pakistan would have some connectivity with militants operating from the tribal area of Pakistan, then how would one explain the growing resistance in areas that have no border with the tribal area or with Pakistan?



On June 9, there was a deadly attack on French soldiers in Kapisa province, which neither has a border with Pakistan nor has any substantial Pakhtun population. And who are targeting the coalition forces on a daily basis in such regions as Qundus (bordering with Tajikistan), Herat (bordering with Iran), Jozjan (bordering with Turkmenistan) and such areas as Sare Pul, Ghazni, Lugar and Wardak which have no border with Pakistan.



Panetta, who is now calling the shots as far as the war theatres of Afghanistan and Iraq are concerned, must be under considerable pressure to deliver an emphatic victory at least in some sector of Afghanistan. He has some results to show, however. The night raids initiated by Stanley McChrystal and David Petraeus have caused tremendous losses to the resistance, although many of the casualties were innocent Afghans. The local militias formed in some regions have also inflicted heavy losses on the resistance.



But the fighting, despite such losses, has not diminished. The most worrying thing for the Pentagon bosses is the rate of desertion in the Afghan National Army which is going up. Secondly, the many supporters and sympathisers of the resistance within the government establishment are causing a headache to the coalition forces which see their scheme for Afghanistan unravelling in the face of more defections and more “conversions.” These are formidable challenges which cannot be managed by throwing money at people.



Pakistan must be able to see the emerging mayhem in Afghanistan which a residual force of 25,000 US troops after 2014 will not be able to contain or handle. The Doha peace process is as good as dead. In any case, Mullah Umar has now decided to discontinue any future parleys with the US, having realised according to some reports that these are gimmicks aimed at creating a rift in the ranks of the resistance. To an extent the team that is based in Doha has lost its relevance for the leadership of the resistance.



These are grim and painful developments. As well as confronting the US position with the help of solid evidence and facts Pakistan must also take a more robust part in initiating a serious dialogue between the US and the resistance, exploring the solid basis that exists for working togather: no Al-Qaeda in future Afghanistan and no use of Afghan soil against any other country. As Pakistan undertakes this stupendous task it would learn very soon that common ground has existed between the position of the US and the resistance that has not been tapped into for many years.



But the success of such an effort would depend on whether the US is willing and prepared to withdraw all its soldiers, trainers, advisers within a stipulated period of time. Insurgency with all its attendant consequences will not end unless the US agrees to a complete pull-out of its forces of all types. Would the US listen?



The writer is a former interior secretary and ambassador. Email: rustammohmand *************
 
So how many of your troops have been shredded so far in Afghanistan, Troopie? And this opinion of yours is coming from someone whose Army's idea of war is playing simulators in an air-conditioned environment in June!! If the state-of-the-art equipped NATO/US forces in Afghanistan have been unable to control over the last 12 years the sandle-wearing, turban-clad, AK-47 yielding simpleton warriors of Afghanistan, can you imagine what would happen if your country's grunts come whistling dixie into a population of 150 million people (most of them armed)? Learn the art of war first and then try to post opinions hookie!!!

Meanwhile....another drone pobably just fired a hellfire missle.
 
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