US: Dazed and Confused

[muse]

Friends:

We have said earlier that there is a "structural" problem within the US, that is rooted in a most vile bigotry and that the problem is most profound with the US government and political establishment -- We highlighted this problem in the US when we posed the question what it was that the US had no meaningful relationship with even one, single Muslim majority countries -- We have read on this forum that Indian friends are largely supportive of this development in the US -- BUt friends, below is a editorial form the respected Indian paper, the Hindu, see for yourself if the opinion some Indians post here is representative of opion in India - and see for yourself if your think tank group is presenting ideas and trends that serve to help you understand events and ideas:



'Refudiate' Palin's bigotry


Sarah Palin's language-bending tweet asking New Yorkers to “refudiate” a proposal to build a Muslim centre near Ground Zero has highlighted the truth that Americans still remain confused and divided in their reactions to Islam. Only two months ago, a Community Board representing Lower Manhattan residents voted in favour of the proposed building whose purpose would be to serve as a meeting point for people of all faiths. This endorsement is not binding but is regarded as a reliable indicator of public opinion. While the proposed 13-storeyed building, planned to come up two blocks from where the Twin Towers stood and named Cordoba House, will have a prayer hall, it is not conceived as a mosque. It will also house a basketball court and a swimming pool. The building that now stands at the site was damaged during the 9/11 attacks. It was bought by a Muslim businessman who is one of the main financiers for the project. Significantly, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has voiced support for building the centre — rightly describing it as being one with the city's tradition of tolerance, its liberal values, and the democratic freedom to practise any religion.

Opposition to the project remains strong and vocal, fuelled by a mix of prejudice, paranoia, and misinformation. There is opposition from the families of the victims of 9/11, who believe that building a ‘mosque' near Ground Zero would be an affront to the memory of those killed on that day. There is also the view that the centre would be a security hazard. Even the proposed name, Cordoba House, has provoked opposition on the grounds that it recalls the heyday of Islam in Europe. It is deplorable that Islam and Muslims are sought to be held responsible for the acts of a few who preach hate and practise terrorism in the name of saving the religion. There were Muslims among those killed in the 9/11 attacks. The hostility to the proposed centre, to which the 2008 vice-presidential candidate's tweet has added political overtones, reveals that considerable sections of American public opinion continue to believe that Muslims must collectively be punished for the attacks. Despite the celebrated U.S. constitutional guarantees on the freedom to worship, there have been instances of communities blocking the construction of religious buildings, usually non-Christian ones, for ‘civic' reasons. The final go-ahead for the building project has to come from the Landmarks Preservation Commission, which could turn it down on the ground that the existing building is a historical landmark. It would be a great pity if the most liberal-minded of American cities joins the list of places that suffer from Islamophobia.


We invite friends in the US to comment and help us inderstand, and in particular, we invite informed opinion with regard to the "structural impediment" we spoke of.

 

[Renegade]

'Refudiate' Palin's bigotry


Sarah Palin's language-bending tweet asking New Yorkers to “refudiate” a proposal to build a Muslim centre near Ground Zero has highlighted the truth that Americans still remain confused and divided in their reactions to Islam. Only two months ago, a Community Board representing Lower Manhattan residents voted in favour of the proposed building whose purpose would be to serve as a meeting point for people of all faiths. This endorsement is not binding but is regarded as a reliable indicator of public opinion. While the proposed 13-storeyed building, planned to come up two blocks from where the Twin Towers stood and named Cordoba House, will have a prayer hall, it is not conceived as a mosque. It will also house a basketball court and a swimming pool. The building that now stands at the site was damaged during the 9/11 attacks. It was bought by a Muslim businessman who is one of the main financiers for the project. Significantly, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg has voiced support for building the centre — rightly describing it as being one with the city's tradition of tolerance, its liberal values, and the democratic freedom to practise any religion.

Opposition to the project remains strong and vocal, fuelled by a mix of prejudice, paranoia, and misinformation. There is opposition from the families of the victims of 9/11, who believe that building a ‘mosque' near Ground Zero would be an affront to the memory of those killed on that day. There is also the view that the centre would be a security hazard. Even the proposed name, Cordoba House, has provoked opposition on the grounds that it recalls the heyday of Islam in Europe. It is deplorable that Islam and Muslims are sought to be held responsible for the acts of a few who preach hate and practise terrorism in the name of saving the religion. There were Muslims among those killed in the 9/11 attacks. The hostility to the proposed centre, to which the 2008 vice-presidential candidate's tweet has added political overtones, reveals that considerable sections of American public opinion continue to believe that Muslims must collectively be punished for the attacks. Despite the celebrated U.S. constitutional guarantees on the freedom to worship, there have been instances of communities blocking the construction of religious buildings, usually non-Christian ones, for ‘civic' reasons. The final go-ahead for the building project has to come from the Landmarks Preservation Commission, which could turn it down on the ground that the existing building is a historical landmark. It would be a great pity if the most liberal-minded of American cities joins the list of places that suffer from Islamophobia.

Orange Indian media again? Since when did an Editorial from "The Hindu" an Indian news paper start qualifying as credible piece of news or analysis for you chaps?

And why did you point out in your post that the article is from "The HIndu" and give the paper due credit for raising an important issue? Why do i smell double standards here.

 

[CardSharp]

Hmm This a very complicated matter and impossible to examine if you regard Americans as a whole. You have to break them down by regions, religion, rural vs urban, Democrat vs Republican etc etc.

But you're right, America is divided and unsure, not just on Islam but what kind of country it wants to be. It was a country built on immigration and certain ideals of freedom and tolerance. But the limits of tolerance is being tested by a hostile world and economic pressures and we have began to see the cracks such as Arizona's new race laws and Islamophobia

Do they want to maintain American ideals or do they want to put themselves under siege and at war?

I don't know and I suspect there isn't a consensus either in America.

(I lived in America for ~5 years)

Orange Indian media again? Since when did an Editorial from "The Hindu" an Indian news paper start qualifying as credible piece of news or analysis for you chaps?

And why did you point out in your post that the article is from "The HIndu" and give the paper due credit for raising an important issue? Why do i smell double standards here.

You are finding offence where none-exists and this is an important topic that needs more discussion.

 

[deepak75]

Hmm This a very complicated matter and impossible to examine if you regard Americans as a whole. You have to break them down by regions, religion, rural vs urban, Democrat vs Republican etc etc.

But you're right, America is divided and unsure, not just on Islam but what kind of country it wants to be. It was a country built on immigration and certain ideals of freedom and tolerance. But the limits of tolerance is being tested by a hostile world and economic pressures and we have began to see the cracks such as Arizona's new race laws and Islamophobia

Do they want to maintain American ideals or do they want to put themselves under siege and at war?

I don't know and I suspect there isn't a consensus either in America.

Well said Comrade. But you forget that a democratic societies cannot actually be "broken up" in different stratas while analyzing approach for a nation's good.

That is the beauty of it, collective will must persist. I know that you find a little complex but then self governed societies are ingrained in that manner.....

 

[muse]

Cardshark


Thank you for that post - Yes, you are exactly right - and it is painful for those who are convinced that the US was a source of inspiration.

I have tried to think about this subject in a variety of ways, and I have always come the question of "Why" - why would the US give up on itself? why would allow itself to be identified with the most vile of bigotry - what is the real source of the confusion?

And believe me I did not want to conclude that it finds comfort n bigotry, because it is, well, bigoted -- that a paper in India is willing to call a spade a spade, should at least suggest that the scope of the problem is such that even in non-Muslim majority countries, it has become embarassing to remain silent in the light of events in the US.

Do they want to maintain American ideals or do they want to put themselves under siege and at war?

I don't know and I suspect there isn't a consensus either in America

You may not have realized it but you have said something profound and terribly dangerous -- increaseingly the world refuses to accept the narrative the US govt. and media offer and they know question and ask themselves just what kind of a country the US is - trust on this, if they become convinced that it is anything other than the kind of country they had faith in - the US and Americans will be in exponentially greater danger -- as will the rest of the world.

Yet I find it quite incredible that thinking persons of conscience in the US cannot bring themselves to discuss this issue honestly -- and it scares me.

 

[Renegade]

You are finding offence where none-exists and this is an important topic that needs more discussion.

Discuss the topic for all you want. When did i say anything about not discussing it!!?? Indeed its an important topic, an Indian newspaper raised it after all. In India we take such issues seriously.

I merely pointed out the irony here. That "Orange India Media" article was chosen as a basis for discussion in this thread. Where as it is regularly dismissied as biased and accused of poor reporting whenever my Pakistani friends find it's reporting difficult to digest.


Just that the irony of it all is simply too amusing.