US Considers F-35 Aircraft Sale To UAE

[HannibalBarca]

Which other Muslims exactly? Which Muslims can even challenge the diplomatic, economic, geographic, resource, population (80 million and growing if Yemen is added) and military might of the GCC alone? And do you really think that the most powerful Arab country currently and in the past many decades (ever since Egypt's retreat) will challenge KSA when that has never happened in history even once? There is a reason why Saddam Hussein's Iraq chose tiny Kuwait and not KSA. And that KSA was a KSA from 30 years ago. Today we are talking about a completely different beast altogether.

The reality is that KSA, UAE and Egypt alone is enough to tackle any opportunists in the region and here I am not talking about millions of civilian Arabs, Muslims, the West, diplomatic clout etc.

The only regime/country that has even remotely such fantasies is Iran and they have not dared even thinking about such fantasy plans for more than a few minutes or seconds. Nor would they be able to succeed at all of course.

Instigating trouble in Bilad al-Haramain (regime in power is irrelevant here) is a red line. Those who tried in the past were always dealt with eventually. For a reason.

Anyway let us return to the topic.

I'll end my off topic with this paragraph...
"Numbers does not make you win a war... and you know it... since you gave the US-Afghan exemple."
as for my statement it wasn't intended to prove smthing... but only to givea perceptive that is not true anymore ( with protectionof Holy cities etc...) and don't count on Yemenis if integrated into KSA to be your allies when times come... and you know it... even the anti houthi yemenis who are siding with UAE/KSA are not pro ksa/UAE either... their are compagnion of common goals...

 

[HAIDER]

With or without trolling, we all know that if they're talking about it there's Israel consent for the issue

Well, to be honest without Isreali approval these next gen plane can not parked in hostile zone with certain mile radius.

 

[VCheng]

I think folks need to read before blindly commenting. Customization has degrees. There are inherent capabilities allowed and disallowed depending on where you sit on the ladder. Take the block example. Not all nations will get the same capabilities depending on the clearance available. There are capabilities and openness in the architecture allowed for partner nations to leverage or further exploit. However there are restrictions placed on exporting these capabilities and only lifted on a case by case basis. This goes all the more with the more advanced, software centric platforms.

Let me just add that this is the way all modern platforms are designed from all major manufacturers, not just LM. The F-35, in particular, is highly networked and remotely upgradable, to an extent perhaps more advanced than other platforms currently available. Such features are the next logical step in evolution, considering where the previous generations were in this regard (recall the discussions on PDF about F-16s and kill switches). (Of course people went hysterical trying to disprove such capabilities. )

 

[Saif al-Arab]

I'll end my off topic with this paragraph...
"Numbers does not make you win a war... and you know it... since you gave the US-Afghan exemple."
as for my statement it wasn't intended to prove smthing... but only to givea perceptive that is not true anymore ( with protectionof Holy cities etc...) and don't count on Yemenis if integrated into KSA to be your allies when times come... and you know it... even the anti houthi yemenis who are siding with UAE/KSA are not pro ksa/UAE either... their are compagnion of common goals...

Well, such discussions are in general extremely pointless/silly as such a thing is very unlikely to happen and when it occurs rest assured that KSA is well capable of protecting itself and its allies.

As for Yemen, I am afraid that you are not aware of the relationship between the average Saudi Arabian and Yemeni. I suggest reading up on this. An ongoing Yemeni civil war (not the first one but one of many in the past 50 years, sadly) will never change that for even a second. Also most Yemenis are well in support of the Yemeni government and Arab coalition and appreciate KSA/Arab coalition/Yemeni army having liberated almost 90% of Yemen. The Houthi terrorist cult has no future in Yemen and only uneducated people who want to see a weak Yemen support them. Aside from perpetual khat/qat addicts.

The same goes for UAE as well. Many Emiratis are originally from Yemen and there are deep bonds. @Khafee

Do you think that Emirati soldiers operating in Southern Yemen would be this steadfast in battle and sacrificing themselves this much if they were sent to say Peru instead? This is a personal thing for many of them. Including Saudi Arabian soldiers from the South.

2 + million Yemenis are living and working in KSA while we speak. They support 10 million + Yemenis in return. Yemen needs a stable and successful KSA while KSA needs a stable Yemen at the least.

Anyway we are well off-topic. This news is too big for off-topic discussions although we have a simultaneous discussion about the same topic on the Arab section of PDF.

 

[Khafee]

I think folks need to read before blindly commenting. Customization has degrees. There are inherent capabilities allowed and disallowed depending on where you sit on the ladder. Take the block example. Not all nations will get the same capabilities depending on the clearance available (example DRFM and AShM integration exclusion from blk52s for some customers). There are capabilities and openness in the architecture allowed for partner nations to leverage or further exploit. However there are restrictions placed on exporting these capabilities and only lifted on a case by case basis. This goes all the more with the more advanced, software centric platforms.

As I have said before, if UAE get the F-35 at the same level as most other NATO nations, they are fine and good and one would be happy for them. However as I have posted in the article for reference, there are a lot of factors involved which will push the UAE specifications to be not at the same level as those offered to Israel for obvious reasons.

On the issue of QME, that is calculated holistically. When the UAE were bringing F-16 blk 60s on, there were already enough blk-52s with upgraded avionics with the IDF and on top of that, they had plans in place for inducting an additional air superiority platform in the form of F-15I which for the Israelis is the tip of the spear in air to air roles along with precision attack. So the idea is to always have the advantage with Israel. For the UAE, that in and of itself is not an issue, however getting clearance for all the bells and whistles from the US side would challenging.

There maybe a complete rethink and they may decide to offer it up to the UAE, but then that opens up the doors for the Saudis (who had their second F-15 deal held up by Congress (due to pro-Israel lobby's concerns for years) so there are a lot of factors at play here.

You will be surprised to know, that this time around, it is us who is weary of the F35, hence the media blitz. Yet no one talks about what we really are interested in, the F15 Silent Eagle

 

[randomradio]

If UAE gets the F-35, then so will the Saudis. Then I wonder what will happen to the cooperation between Russia and UAE for a new gen fighter that they plan to develop. This one:
https://www.defensenews.com/digital...ostec-to-co-develop-5th-gen-fighter-with-uae/

It's funny how quickly the US changed colours due to the fear of Russia getting ME oil money for the development of their own military industry.

However if the UAE-Russia program gets killed because of the F-35, then a pissed off Russia may offer this program to the Iranians. Pretty interesting times ahead.

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

@Sharif al-Hijaz

@HannibalBarca


We are going to have this plane (F-35).

Because Lockheed Martin needs a lot, a lot, a lot of money to justify his crazy spending - stolen from the American taxpayer (century Holdup) - to develop it.

Because now there are others new players (My China love…) who will be less looking at who to sell and who also have a new defense industry to make live to keep the distance.

Because it will bring us a new technological mastery, already only in its use. It's better to have learned to use a 2017 formula 1 and so to be wholly in his century than to have known until now only the horse. Difficult to perceive the future - and all its immense possibilities - when you still live under a aunt.

We are going to have this plane and we are also going to manufacture, assemble, repair some of its elements. Because this is the new mandatory rule for sellers with very, very big buyers - welcome in Globalization -.

We are going to have this plane to vaccinate all those who would have adventurous ideas - in the immediate corner - of heroic conquest pseudo prophetic religious at the nuts.

So, UAE or KSA first (Always GCC), we do not care.


...

 

[HannibalBarca]

@Sharif al-Hijaz

@HannibalBarca


We are going to have this plane (F-35).

Because Lockheed Martin needs a lot, a lot, a lot of money to justify his crazy spending - stolen from the American taxpayer (century Holdup) - to develop it.

Because now there are others new players (My China love…) who will be less looking at who to sell and who also have a new defense industry to make live to keep the distance.

Because it will bring us a new technological mastery, already only in its use. It's better to have learned to use a 2017 formula 1 and so to be wholly in his century than to have known until now only the horse. Difficult to perceive the future - and all its immense possibilities - when you still live under a aunt.

We are going to have this plane and we are also going to manufacture, assemble, repair some of its elements. Because this is the new mandatory rule for sellers with very, very big buyers - welcome in Globalization -.

We are going to have this plane to vaccinate all those who would have adventurous ideas - in the immediate corner - of heroic conquest pseudo prophetic religious at the nuts.

So, UAE or KSA first (Always GCC), we do not care.


...

I'm ok with F-35...but the manufacturing and assembly statement .. I doubt it...

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

I'm ok with F-35...but the manufacturing and assembly statement .. I doubt it...

Italy much less rich has it, Turkey even less rich has it too. So I really do not see what could stop us.

Otherwise never mind ! Welcome My China FC-31 Globalization.

Please ! Please ! My love (KSA) come back (Say Lockheed Martin) !


...

 

[HannibalBarca]

Italy much less rich has it, Turkey even less rich has it too. So I really do not see what could stop us.

Otherwise never mind ! Welcome My China J-31 Globalization.

Please ! Please ! My love (KSA) come back (Say Lockheed Martin) !


...

Are you comparing
Italy, a Lvl 2 partner ; with 1.8Tri$ GDP ;+ an order book of 90+ pcs
AND
Turkey a lvl 3; with 857Bil$ and with an order of 110+ pcs AND only manufacture few pcs with no assembly
WITH
UAE who has no involvement in R&D and just gonna purchase it for around( if news is true) 24 pcs...

I'm a little lost about your statement on less rich and less rich thing?

Let's concentrate on acquiring it first and then will see... Deal is far from signed...

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

Are you comparing
Italy, a Lvl 2 partner ; with 1.8Tri$ GDP ;+ an order book of 90+ pcs
AND
Turkey a lvl 3; with 857Bil$ and with an order of 110+ pcs AND only manufacture few pcs with no assembly
WITH
UAE who has no involvement in R&D and just gonna purchase it for around( if news is true) 24 pcs...

I'm a little lost about your statement on less rich and less rich thing?

...

I did not speak about the UAE. I was talking about KSA.


Turkey Industrial Participation


It would already be very good (to begin) :

TAI Delivers First Turkish JSF/F-35 Center Fuselage

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jsf-f35-fuselage-delivery-ceremony-in-tai.290716/#post-5028678





TUSAS signs F-35 engine, depot-level maintenance hub accord


Or that :

F-35 Wings Production Line Inaugurated




We (KSA) already do it differently :

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/did-...ngs-visit-to-china.492460/page-2#post-9432302

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cons...raft-factory-in-taif-ksa.521033/#post-9911577

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cons...raft-factory-in-taif-ksa.521033/#post-9911678

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cons...raft-factory-in-taif-ksa.521033/#post-9911821


...

 

[Khafee]

I think folks need to read before blindly commenting. Customization has degrees. There are inherent capabilities allowed and disallowed depending on where you sit on the ladder. Take the block example. Not all nations will get the same capabilities depending on the clearance available (example DRFM and AShM integration exclusion from blk52s for some customers). There are capabilities and openness in the architecture allowed for partner nations to leverage or further exploit. However there are restrictions placed on exporting these capabilities and only lifted on a case by case basis. This goes all the more with the more advanced, software centric platforms.

As I have said before, if UAE get the F-35 at the same level as most other NATO nations, they are fine and good and one would be happy for them. However as I have posted in the article for reference, there are a lot of factors involved which will push the UAE specifications to be not at the same level as those offered to Israel for obvious reasons.

On the issue of QME, that is calculated holistically. When the UAE were bringing F-16 blk 60s on, there were already enough blk-52s with upgraded avionics with the IDF and on top of that, they had plans in place for inducting an additional air superiority platform in the form of F-15I which for the Israelis is the tip of the spear in air to air roles along with precision attack. So the idea is to always have the advantage with Israel. For the UAE, that in and of itself is not an issue, however getting clearance for all the bells and whistles from the US side would challenging.

There maybe a complete rethink and they may decide to offer it up to the UAE, but then that opens up the doors for the Saudis (who had their second F-15 deal held up by Congress (due to pro-Israel lobby's concerns for years) so there are a lot of factors at play here.

Sir, You might want to confirm the radars of the Israeli F15's prior to Jan 2016. Would appreciate it.

 

[HannibalBarca]

I did not speak about the UAE. I was talking about KSA.


Turkey Industrial Participation


It would already be very good (to begin) :

TAI Delivers First Turkish JSF/F-35 Center Fuselage

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jsf-f35-fuselage-delivery-ceremony-in-tai.290716/#post-5028678





TUSAS signs F-35 engine, depot-level maintenance hub accord


Or that :

F-35 Wings Production Line Inaugurated




We (KSA) already do it differently :

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/did-...ngs-visit-to-china.492460/page-2#post-9432302

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cons...raft-factory-in-taif-ksa.521033/#post-9911577

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cons...raft-factory-in-taif-ksa.521033/#post-9911678

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/cons...raft-factory-in-taif-ksa.521033/#post-9911821


...

Same for KSA... Manufacturing of such component as F-35 is not for today in KSa or any part in GCC... You need to build the ecosystem for the manufacturing process and the workers... and just that take at least 8-10 years...

 

[Bubblegum Crisis]

Same for KSA... Manufacturing of such component as F-35 is not for today in KSa or any part in GCC... You need to build the ecosystem for the manufacturing process and the workers... and just that take at least 8-10 years...

No, I do not think so. There is not a huge difference between this:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/did-...ngs-visit-to-china.492460/page-2#post-9432302


And this :

TAI Delivers First Turkish JSF/F-35 Center Fuselage

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jsf-f35-fuselage-delivery-ceremony-in-tai.290716/#post-5028678





TUSAS signs F-35 engine, depot-level maintenance hub accord


Or that :

F-35 Wings Production Line Inaugurated




...

 

[HannibalBarca]

No, I do not think so. There is not a huge difference between this:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/did-...ngs-visit-to-china.492460/page-2#post-9432302


And this :

TAI Delivers First Turkish JSF/F-35 Center Fuselage

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/jsf-f35-fuselage-delivery-ceremony-in-tai.290716/#post-5028678





TUSAS signs F-35 engine, depot-level maintenance hub accord


Or that :

F-35 Wings Production Line Inaugurated




...

Yes it does... Turkey has an ecosystem build for years and years around it and for it... and even bigger expension in other sys of that type in other department...While KSA do not... and will not at least in the coming decade and even more... Things like that is not a matter of money (only)... but mostly of skilled ppl... and a matured Industry to sustain it...

if things were that simple... where money will do the job to be 100% indegenious and self-made... then GCC will be at the lvl of making their own 5th gen aircraft from scratch with sub-sys included...