US Congress stalls F-16 sale to Pakistan

[Cool_Soldier]

Su 35 looks like potent fighter as Russia has placed an order of 50 more SU35 for its Air force.
PAF should be looking 36 of them.

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

This is where you grossly underestimate Pakistan's abilities!! If this deal's cancelled, the US aid and other "goodies" will be cancelled following this. Your country will take a loss. Emotional fools don't take more than a second to run their brains without knowing the consequences!!

The SAME Indian lobby who is behind this, will work her magic on Russians too. You guys aren't as influential that you'll make Russia sell you what the Indians will seriously object to!!

A MUCH smarter thing, is to lobby with the US congress, and get them to understand, so this damage is controlled before it goes too far and impact other things. Its foolish to think anyone can get ahead with their economy without the West, and US has a say in everything regarding the West. When you can make friends, and get what you want....why make enemies???

Most welcome plz stop the funds and save you asses in Afghan

Dnt expect others to clean your mess.

 

[Viper0011.]

Most welcome plz stop the funds and save you asses in Afghan

Dnt expect others to clean your mess.

Check with your Army Generals on stopping the funds. They may not operate properly. Stupid posts like these are written out of sheer ignorance of the reality. And no one's cleaning our mess, the Pakistani Army (and even businessmen) aren't welcomed in Afghanistan!!!! Talk about cleaning the mess .

The presence of who is "actually welcomed", gives your general heartburn all day long,every day!! Next time you want to cry like a child, find someone else's posts to respond to. I don't have the time to exchange useless posts with little children.

 

[batmannow]

Check with your Army Generals on stopping the funds. They may not operate properly. Stupid posts like these are written out of sheer ignorance of the reality. And no one's cleaning our mess, the Pakistani Army (and even businessmen) aren't welcomed in Afghanistan!!!! Talk about cleaning the mess .

The presence of who is "actually welcomed", gives your general heartburn all day long,every day!! Next time you want to cry like a child, find someone else's posts to respond to. I don't have the time to exchange useless posts with little children.

guess what , the presence of tailban's over all Afghanistan gives you the pleasure you are looking for ?
& belive me , Russia would be more then willing to share us even it's super PAKFA as the trophy ?

& then what ?

another announcement of defeat from the so called only super super power of the world after 15 years of spended American tax payers money into rugged Afghanistan mountains my friend go ahead , we will still take your request for the rescue of your troops with humble & kind consideration before throwing it to the dirty dustbins of our GHQ.

just go ahead ?lolzz
with same insane thinking , America should have won in , Vietnam ?
ohh they won there ?lolzzz

 

[MadDog]

Check with your Army Generals on stopping the funds. They may not operate properly. Stupid posts like these are written out of sheer ignorance of the reality. And no one's cleaning our mess, the Pakistani Army (and even businessmen) aren't welcomed in Afghanistan!!!! Talk about cleaning the mess .

The presence of who is "actually welcomed", gives your general heartburn all day long,every day!! Next time you want to cry like a child, find someone else's posts to respond to. I don't have the time to exchange useless posts with little children.

I believe CSF fund has helped Pakistan significantly in its WOT, Along with that Americans have provided the cobras , super cobras, JDAMS , sniper pods...all of which helped Pak Army achieving targets set for Zarb-e-Azb

 

[Viper0011.]

guess what , the presence of tailban's over all Afghanistan gives you the pleasure you are looking for ?
& belive me , Russia would be more then willing to share us even it's super PAKFA as the trophy ?

& then what ?

another announcement of defeat from the so called only super super power of the world after 15 years of spended American tax payers money into rugged Afghanistan mountains my friend go ahead ,we will still take your request for the rescue of your troops with humble & kind consideration before throwing it to the dirty dustbins of our GHQ.

just go ahead ?lolzz
with same insane thinking , America should have won in , Vietnam ?
ohh they won there ?lolzzz

To fools with your mental activity, my only suggestion is, to think before you say stupid crap like this. I can just easily say that "support Taliban and expect more drone attacks and OBL types of raids". But its not nice for me to say though. People like you, make your nation and country look bad.

Russia won't sell you Mig-29's built in the 80's!!!! PakFa is like looking at the moon thinking how high it is, with no means to measure it, let alone get there!!

@Irfan Baloch @Oscar : please stop the trolling on this thread!!

 

[batmannow]

To fools with your mental activity, my only suggestion is, to think before you say stupid crap like this. I can just easily say that "support Taliban and expect more drone attacks and OBL types of raids". But its not nice for me to say though. People like you, make your nation and country look bad.

Russia won't sell you Mig-29's built in the 80's!!!! PakFa is like looking at the moon thinking how high it is, with no means to measure it, let alone get there!!

@Irfan Baloch @Oscar : please stop the trolling on this thread!!

Has drone attacks & OBL type attacks would have happened if we havnt allowed them to happen , sorry come out of your yanky world friend?
this world is going be great place to live ?
If you stop using your yanky logics messing it up ?

With out our logestical /intell support , you will be in the same position where you were , before the Afghanistan was invaded ?lolzz

Try it & spend more of your tax payers money ,15 more years then accept defeat ?lolzz

Once your troops been trapped in cooled Afghani mountains , you will see Mr , Putin will be dancing ramba samba in Islamabad , specially if you are thinking about attacking Pakistan , by any of your drone ways ?

Omg ! Lolzz
that will be a hell of chance , to let you be shamefully defeated 100 times more then what you got in Vietnam ?
Dear , kido after lossing KSA you don't even get any of your dam , basses in the region , most of the central Asian countries you are counting on , will through you out , once you been marked for attack by , IRAN , PAKISTAN , CHINA , RUSSIA jointly in Afghanistan ?
Your troops ????
I don't wanna say , but on the regional military chess board you are defeated , already & its time for you to stop messing this world for your god damned self interests ,, keep those stupid F-16s & watch , what happens in Afghanistan with love from Pakistan .lolzz
& stop acting like a pentagon ghost , or a mouth pice of american congressional commite on Pakistan affairs ?
Don't cry like stupid kids , if you been set into your short boxers , which aren't meant for you ?
& they guys you are calling in they know it well , batmanow stands for Pakistan first , thus stop your self created dam scenes in favour of your defeated power here on PDF .

 

[lafete]

-The geopolitical situation is changing quickly.
-The Saudis are not fools for making repeated trips to Pakistan.
-Iran will be getting top of the line SU-35 from Russia.
-There are still real estate disputes between the gulf states and Iran.

-How many Pakistanis serve in the airforce service of UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar and Saudi?
-How many of these gulf countries send there non Pak pilots to Pak for initial training?
-If Pakistan decides to scale down its Airforce's American infrastructure what will these gulf countries do?
-Why is the UAE talking to Russia about the SU-35

-I don't care how good a pilot you are, putting you on a plane that costs more than 200 million is insane.
-Pakistan needs a fighter jet with long range - not only to safe guard its coast but also to help out these gulf states in case the tension with Iran heats up.
-The simple fact is that the US does not really have a reasonably priced solution to offer for these new requirements.

 

[curious]

granted the f-16 is an excellent multi-role fighter, but but its just too sanction prone for paf given the previous experience and the attitudes towards Pakistan in the US. In war time, the f-16s could prove more a liability then an asset.
I read somewhere that during the Islamic revolution Americans posted in Iran with there f-14s scrambled the softwares of several aircrafts ,but were stopped before they could effect all the aircrafts, thus neutralizing there whole f-14 fleet.
It wouldn't be beyond possibility to consider something if the same is attempted on the f-16 50/52s if relations go sour notwithstanding all the talk of bugs/kill switches and such.
Its high time the paf got over its obsession with the f-16, its good, but its not irreplaceable, there are other good medium weight multi-role aircrafts that paf can consider.

Like a customized version of J-10,

or maybe a customized version Mig-35 provided russia is willing to sell those

yes India already operates mig-29s but it also operated mig-21s for ages and still paf bought f-7s.
If paf is willing to consider heavies, then a customized version of a flanker will serve it well; some su-35s if Russia is willing to sell, complemented by larger numbers of j-11s, or only j-11s if Russia doesn't sell su-35s.

So there are plenty of options available to paf if its willing to look past the f-16s.

 

[S10]

Pakistan should speed up the development of JF-17 Block III to make up for the gap in capability. More importantly, Pakistan can produce the plane entirely saved for the engine and the radar, both of which could be securely sourced from China. If there is one thing that's reliable about the Americans, is that they are unreliable.

 

[Viper0011.]

granted the f-16 is an excellent multi-role fighter, but but its just too sanction prone for paf given the previous experience and the attitudes towards Pakistan in the US. In war time, the f-16s could prove more a liability then an asset.

Its high time the paf got over its obsession with the f-16, its good, but its not irreplaceable, there are other good medium weight multi-role aircrafts that paf can consider.

Like a customized version of J-10,

or maybe a customized version Mig-35 provided russia is willing to sell those

yes India already operates mig-29s but it also operated mig-21s for ages and still paf bought f-7s.

If paf is willing to consider heavies, then a customized version of a flanker will serve it well; some su-35s if Russia is

willing to sell, complemented by larger numbers of j-11s, or only j-11s if Russia doesn't sell su-35s.

So there are plenty of options available to paf if its willing to look past the f-16s.

1) I don't think the US or anyone else will have issues if the Pakistanis or any other democratic country, friends and a partner of the US, decided to diversify their weapon systems. So Pakistan should procure what other platform they should or want to. The US has ensured a stronger defense of Pakistan. Take a look at the 65, 71 and the Russian fights and see how the American military hardware always kept Pakistani forces in a better shape. Its the SAME for the F-16's block 52's. The restrictions are for transfer of tech to China. Not using those jets to defend Pakistan. Why would a country buy and another one sell those jets if they can't be used?

Remember if there was a small fight between two Indian aircraft and two Pakistani F-16's. If the software was blocked, imagine how badly it will effect Lockheed Martin, Boeing and others weapon sales to the world. No country would trust them. So the US doesn't do that. Which is why, they'd rather not SELL to begin with, than selling and realizing they made a mistake. Remember "Made in USA" means the USA is behind her products and the customer. The US is the ONLY country on the planet who spends serious amounts of billions in customer satisfaction at ALL levels, from a Coffee chain to a Tank or a Jet manufacturer. Its your customers who make you the number 1 economy. And bad reputation would damage any business.

2) I've personally said it many times. Pakistan should NOW acquire J-10C with TOT and call it a JFT block IV. Start to build it internally and your internal aviation industry will jump right to the league of Rafale and EFT's. That's a massive leap and your industry might not need any future outside jets anymore, outside of the Stealthy ones (J-31). You can always buy avionics and other hardware from the French and the Americans and integrate it into the JFTblock IV (aken to the EFT / Rafale category). Buy some F-16's as need be and you'll have a great combination of JFT block IV (FC-20) + F-16's, plus JFT block II and III's

3) The Russians won't sell you any Mig or SU-33/35's. That's not going to happen. Nor there is a need to if you do the above.

 

[batmannow]

1) I don't think the US or anyone else will have issues if the Pakistanis or any other democratic country, friends and a partner of the US, decided to diversify their weapon systems. So Pakistan should procure what other platform they should or want to. The US has ensured a stronger defense of Pakistan. Take a look at the 65, 71 and the Russian fights and see how the American military hardware always kept Pakistani forces in a better shape. Its the SAME for the F-16's block 52's. The restrictions are for transfer of tech to China. Not using those jets to defend Pakistan. Why would a country buy and another one sell those jets if they can't be used?

Remember if there was a small fight between two Indian aircraft and two Pakistani F-16's. If the software was blocked, imagine how badly it will effect Lockheed Martin, Boeing and others weapon sales to the world. No country would trust them. So the US doesn't do that. Which is why, they'd rather not SELL to begin with, than selling and realizing they made a mistake. Remember "Made in USA" means the USA is behind her products and the customer. The US is the ONLY country on the planet who spends serious amounts of billions in customer satisfaction at ALL levels, from a Coffee chain to a Tank or a Jet manufacturer. Its your customers who make you the number 1 economy. And bad reputation would damage any business.

2) I've personally said it many times. Pakistan should NOW acquire J-10C with TOT and call it a JFT block IV. Start to build it internally and your internal aviation industry will jump right to the league of Rafale and EFT's. That's a massive leap and your industry might not need any future outside jets anymore, outside of the Stealthy ones (J-31). You can always buy avionics and other hardware from the French and the Americans and integrate it into the JFTblock IV (aken to the EFT / Rafale category). Buy some F-16's as need be and you'll have a great combination of JFT block IV (FC-20) + F-16's, plus JFT block II and III's

3) The Russians won't sell you any Mig or SU-33/35's. That's not going to happen. Nor there is a need to if you do the above.

Don't need to be spokes person of Russian govt , here which I think is the dam night mare for you these days ?lolzz

Here is what our PAF , IS HEADING FOR SAYING GOOD DREAMS ,, KEEP YOUR DAM F-16s forever ?lolzz
I know it is going to hurt you head to toe ?

 

[lafete]

The security paradigm is changing. F-16 and JF-17 are single engine planes with short range.
To defend the entire coastal belt and the territorial waters you need long range dual engine fighters.
Who knows what the situation between saudi and iran will be in a years time?
If oil tankers carrying fuel to Pakistan need air cover in the strait of Hormuz then what will happen?

There are European options but the price is not practical. Bird strike or technical issue...oops there goes 200 million.

 

[curious]

Take a look at the 65, 71 and the Russian fights and see how the American military hardware always kept Pakistani forces in a better shape. Its the SAME for the F-16's block 52's. The restrictions are for transfer of tech to China

Yes the American made equipment served the armed forces well, but things were much different back then, Pakistan was firmly in the western camp while India was on the other side.
These days theres lots of suspicion on both sides, conflict of interests, etc.While US and India and now friends and their cultivating a relationship,an alliance to make a counterweight to China and something of a regional police man.
So Pakistan cant be allowed to become too powerful for fear of "upsetting regional balance".And of course US has always been pro Zionist ,if anything it has become even more extreme in modern times then it was before.Add to that the modern narrative of war on terror: aiding/abetting terror,unreliable ally, terrorist sympathizer irresponsible nuclear power etc and of course the west's rampaging through the Muslim world leaving ravaged nations and broken people in its wake.These factors result in a toxic mix of mutual distrust/suspicion, conflicting interests sometimes bordering almost on hostility.

Remember if there was a small fight between two Indian aircraft and two Pakistani F-16's. If the software was blocked, imagine how badly it will effect Lockheed Martin, Boeing and others weapon sales to the world. No country would trust them. So the US doesn't do that. Which is why, they'd rather not SELL to begin with, than selling and realizing they made a mistake. Remember "Made in USA" means the USA is behind her products and the customer. The US is the ONLY country on the planet who spends serious amounts of billions in customer satisfaction at ALL levels, from a Coffee chain to a Tank or a Jet manufacturer. Its your customers who make you the number 1 economy. And bad reputation would damage any business.

Thats no problem for them, when it suits them they'll just turn their propaganda hounds on Pakistan,: It supports terror in its neighbors, uses terror proxies, aids and abets terror,irresponsible nation with nuclear weapons,serious threat to regional security,terror sympathizer, suppresses its people, denies rights to its women, dangerous regime with fanatical elements, main source of terror, allied with demons from the nether plane,etc....

2) I've personally said it many times. Pakistan should NOW acquire J-10C with TOT and call it a JFT block IV. Start to build it internally and your internal aviation industry will jump right to the league of Rafale and EFT's. That's a massive leap and your industry might not need any future outside jets anymore, outside of the Stealthy ones (J-31). You can always buy avionics and other hardware from the French and the Americans and integrate it into the JFTblock IV (aken to the EFT / Rafale category). Buy some F-16's as need be and you'll have a great combination of JFT block IV (FC-20) + F-16's, plus JFT block II and III's

No arguments there, if paf can manage that,then nothing like it.

3) The Russians won't sell you any Mig or SU-33/35's. That's not going to happen. Nor there is a need to if you do the above.

Yes its unlikely at present, but relationship is slowly getting warmer,maybe in the near future, those options will be available too.

 

[Dalit]

1) I don't think the US or anyone else will have issues if the Pakistanis or any other democratic country, friends and a partner of the US, decided to diversify their weapon systems. So Pakistan should procure what other platform they should or want to. The US has ensured a stronger defense of Pakistan. Take a look at the 65, 71 and the Russian fights and see how the American military hardware always kept Pakistani forces in a better shape. Its the SAME for the F-16's block 52's. The restrictions are for transfer of tech to China. Not using those jets to defend Pakistan. Why would a country buy and another one sell those jets if they can't be used?

Remember if there was a small fight between two Indian aircraft and two Pakistani F-16's. If the software was blocked, imagine how badly it will effect Lockheed Martin, Boeing and others weapon sales to the world. No country would trust them. So the US doesn't do that. Which is why, they'd rather not SELL to begin with, than selling and realizing they made a mistake. Remember "Made in USA" means the USA is behind her products and the customer. The US is the ONLY country on the planet who spends serious amounts of billions in customer satisfaction at ALL levels, from a Coffee chain to a Tank or a Jet manufacturer. Its your customers who make you the number 1 economy. And bad reputation would damage any business.

2) I've personally said it many times. Pakistan should NOW acquire J-10C with TOT and call it a JFT block IV. Start to build it internally and your internal aviation industry will jump right to the league of Rafale and EFT's. That's a massive leap and your industry might not need any future outside jets anymore, outside of the Stealthy ones (J-31). You can always buy avionics and other hardware from the French and the Americans and integrate it into the JFTblock IV (aken to the EFT / Rafale category). Buy some F-16's as need be and you'll have a great combination of JFT block IV (FC-20) + F-16's, plus JFT block II and III's

3) The Russians won't sell you any Mig or SU-33/35's. That's not going to happen. Nor there is a need to if you do the above.

You better get used to the idea that Pakistan has better options at its disposal. You should also get used to the notion that Pakistan US relations are confined to security. There is very little room left for any substantial cooperation between the US and Pakistan. Our interests don't converge on many important matters. The F-16 deal was made by the Americans in order to broaden fragile influence over Pakistan. Besides, the F-16s won't add any new capabilities to PAF. The F-16 offer only has a political angle to it.

Whether you like it or not, the Su-35 Russian offer to Pakistan is a reality. You keep repeating that the Russians won't sell, but the reality is that Pakistan and Russia are engaged in serious talks. From an American perspective this means sour grapes, but you cannot deny the reality in every topic.