DF41
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USA had military advantage and fire power at least 100 times that of China in 1950
In 1950, the weakness of China very very real and not imaginary at all. Armed largely with single shot bolt action rifle a noch above black powder muzzle loader.
How can China ever hoped to prevail against battleships with 16 inch guns and planes and artillery and Ma Deuces with unlimited ammo supply and the claimed battle savy of USA army and Marines?
Dugout Doug and his generals laughed at those chink laundrymen and promised that they be crushed to red paste with firepower and laughed at the China warning not to approach Yalu river.
The military might and strength of USA with heavy artillery and planes and tanks and battleships with 16 inch guns cannot be resisted by China with economy slightly out of stone age and with single shot bolt action rifles. Bolt operated rifles were just one stage above using muzzle loading muskets and black powder.
That Chinese be slaughtered and turned into red pulp should they dare to fight good old Dugout in Korea.
Chinese whacked USA and the UN combined that they had to flee south of the Parallel as demanded by China.Chinese fought with bolt operated rifles against Ma Dueces , automatic weapons and artillery and tanks and planes and chopters and battleships with 16″ guns.
Go read the book by David Halberstam
The Coldest Winter
Look on the front line at 24 Nov 1950 and the front line of 16 Dec 1950.
It took China only twenty days and less to do that push down to 38 parallel fighting USA and the UN combined who had 100 times and more of the firepower of China.
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And for the Sino Japan war, Japan was so confident that Japan will need only 3 months to smash and conquer whole of China. Especially considering the arms Japan got and the almost no arms China got.
That was enforced by the rape of China from the Imperial powers that of course not allow China to manufacture weapons, major or minor.
Did the Japanese win in CHina?
Could the Japs win in China?
I thought they were stuck in a quagmire and sucked deeper and deeper in China and being killed and injured by the millions in the Sino Japanese war despite the Chinese having pathetically little arms.
I think the German Army stuck and surrounded in Stalingrad got more arms and supplies send to them than what was send in all entirety to the Chinese in China during the Sino Japanese war.
Japan got sucked into quicksand in China despite overwhelming military advantage and 4 to 5 times as many Japanese died at the hands of Chinese than they did in the islands of Pacific at the arms of the USA Marines and Army and Navy.
That the Japanese soldiers were very well trained can be seen in their earlier victories against British and USA.
The Japanese could fight very very well.
As to how Japs could fight, do recall 36,000 Japanese invaded Malaya , forced and fought their way down and utterly defeated 86,000++ British troops capturing Singapore. So do not think Japs could not fight.
About 130,000 Indian, Australian and British troops became prisoners of war when Singapore was surrended to General Yamashita. The 130,000 Brits and Allied forces with artillery and tanks and planes and guns and lots of ammo surrended to 36,000 Japs who rode down on fucking bicycles fighting with guns and hardly any arty .
Neither could the Americans hold off the Japanese at the beginning because the Japanese fought extremely well against USA as seen in Corregidor.
The defensive arsenal on Corregidor was formidable with 45 coastal guns and mortars organized into 23 batteries, some seventy-two anti-aircraft weapons assigned to thirteen batteries and a minefield of approximately 35 groups of controlled mines.
The two 12-inch (305 mm) guns of Batteries Smith and Hearn, with a horizontal range of 29,000 yd (27,000 m) and all-around traverse were the longest range of all the island's artillery.
Caballo Island, with Fort Hughes—just south of Corregidor—was the next largest in area. At about 160 acres (65 ha), the island rose abruptly from the bay to a height of 380 ft (120 m) on its western side. Commander Francis J. Bridget was in charge of its beach defenses with a total of 800 men, of whom 93 were Marines and 443 belonged to the Navy, by the end of April 1942. Coastal artillery numbered some 13 assorted pieces, with its anti-aircraft defenses tied in with those of Corregidor.
Fort Drum—which lay about 4 mi (6.4 km) south of Fort Hughes—was the most unusual of the harbor defenses. Military engineers had cut away the entire top of El Fraile Island down to the water-line and used the island as a foundation to build a reinforced concrete "battleship", 350 ft (110 m) long and 144 ft (44 m) wide, with exterior walls of concrete and steel 25–36 ft (7.6–11.0 m) thick. The top deck of this concrete battleship was 40 ft (12 m) above the low-water mark and had 20 ft (6.1 m) thick walls. Equipped with four 14-inch (356 mm) guns in armored turrets facing seaward, a secondary battery of four casemated 6-inch (152 mm) gunsguns, and two antiaircraft guns, the fort with its 200-man garrison was considered impregnable to attack.
And the 13,000++ USA and Filipino soldiers left on Corregidor with all those hardware and lots of military goodies were ran over and surrendered to 2,400++ Japs in three landings made by the Japs on the island.
And that Gen McArthur ran away from his troops in Corregidor for which he was awarded MOH for his glorious act of running away.
As for China at the time of the Sino Japanese war, China was defenseless.
China had little industry in China being raped and pillaged by Western powers all set to divide and dismembered her and selling opium to China prior to the Sino Japanese war from July 7, 1937, to September 2, 1945
And for that purpose, the Western Powers were not going to let China have the means to produce armaments which could be used to stop the West from enjoying what they could from China.
Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia
Japanese had a very strong military and armaments , from the steel USA happily sold to her for that purpose, together with the oil . Going on until almost before Japan decided to attack Pearl harbour because the Japanese were very unhappy USA not selling to Japan as much steel and oil as they want to beat and loot China in the way the Japanese want to.
China ports were all taken by Japanese so nothing could get through and for that matter, USA was not going to do that as USA had this great friendship going on with Japan.
Until Japan attacked Pearl Harbour that USA decided perhaps USA needed to supply arms to China except USA main focus was to supply arms to Europe as China was a bastard child. China did not even get 1% of the armaments supplied to UK, Russia and other Allied forces in other theatres of war.
The much ballyhooed military lift over the Hump was a fucking joke as that primarily was to try to get fuel and bombs over to bases for USA planes to bomb Japan and not arms for China. And at that, the fuel required to fly over the hump, and to fly back meant only a pittance could be brought over.
Chinese had to take on 80% of the Japanese Armed strength in China itself and 20% of the Japanese in the Pacific fighting the Americans
From Jamie Wong answer to How powerful is the Chinese military?
As a matter of fact, a lot of PLA soldiers didn’t even have a rifle. For major battles, each soldier got 1 rifle, 100~200 bullets, and 2~3 grenades. As for the guerrillas who was fighting in the Japanese occupied ares, half of them didn’t even have a rifle or pistol. Each battle, 5 rounds were the standard equipment. Others had to use blades and spears.
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↑ This picture shows the common situation of PLA guerrillas.
]
]↑ And this was already a major division, but in the tough area.[
]
↑ This is how the 8th route army looked like. It was the major division of PLA. Still no armored vehicle.[
]
[
E]This was how Chinese went into battle in 1941
Those Chinese lucky enough to have rifles would have five rounds for each rifle. The rest using swords and spears against Japanese machine guns, tanks and artillery.
Yet they fought and killed Japanese invaders.
Even though the Chinese had no experience with fighting, and Japanese very well armed and with enormous experience in war and killing, Chinese took them on. (so those that always harp and crow that Chinese got no experience, please remember this and take note)
And Chinese killed over 1.5 million Japanese soldiers. Chinese did it by strapping explosives to their bodies to rush at tanks and machine guns and Japanese concentration of troops in suicidal charges.
Except the chinese being chinese, never ever will call their charges as banzai charges.
This not only killed Japanese, this terrified them as to how Chinese with so few arms could take on the Japanese. This was when the Japanese copied the Chinese in Japanese Pacific war against USA.
Why should the Japanese use Banzai attacks on Chinese in China? Japanese got machine guns and artillery and tanks and planes to kill the Chinese without having to go Banzaiiing!
Japanese learned Kamikazi and Banzai attacks from Chinese.
From the Chinese who had little arms and no other choices to their killing of Japanese in China.
Chinese paid with 14 ++ million of their Chinese soldiers dying . And another 14++ million Chinese civilians slaughtered and murdered by the Japanese soldiers in attempts to terrorised and intimidate China into surrendering.
For the Americans it was very different in their later fight with Japanese.
USA did not have to strap explosives to their bodies like the Chinese soldiers to rush the Japanese.
USA had battleships with 16″ guns and planes and bombs and Ma Deuces and artillery , tanks flame throwers and unlimited ammo and kitchen sink to help them take on the remaining 20% of the Japanese on islands like Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal, Guam, Okinawa maybe taking out 200,000 Japanese troops in the entire Pacific islands campaigns.[
E]
[
]Now we look at how the Chinese fought when they had adequate arms.
Battle of Yenangyaung - Wikipedia
And in Burma, at the battle of Yenangyaung, almost 7,000 British soldiers, and 500 prisoners and civilians were encircled by an equal number of Japanese soldiers from the IJA 33rd Division at Yenangyaung and its oil field. The 33rd Division had cut the Magwe road between Slim's two divisions, who were now about 50 miles (80 km) apart.
General Sun instead led his 113th Regiment with only 1,121 men, of which only 800 were combat personnel, in the rescue mission.
British veteran expresses thanks to descendants of China Expeditionary Force
And those 800 chinese saved the Brits. And those 800 Chinks pulled the chestnuts of the 7,000 valiant brits out of the fucking fire and slaughtered the IJA 33rd Division.
In China, Chinese with kungfu and spears and swords and hardly any guns hold the Japs and fought the Japs killing 1.77 million of the Japs and wounding 1.9 million Japs with suicidal charges strapping explosives to take out Jap tanks and machine guns and artillery.
But Chinese when given adequate arms could fight far better than the Japs.
Imagine now if Chinese had been given sufficient arms in China to fight the fucking Japanese there in China!
There might not even be a fucking TORA TORA TORA at Pearl Harbour. And no Japanese in Pacific at all for USA Army and Marines to fight as Japs will all be in China and being fucked and killed by Chinese in China.
I AM SURE CHINA GOT REDUNDANCIES AFTER REDUNDANCIES AS TO KNOW WHERE USA NAVAL ASSETS ARE AT ALL TIMES.
AND IF PUSHING TURN TO REAL SHOVING, USA SAILORS WILL REMAIN FOREVER YOUNG
USA LOST BADLY TO CHINA WHEN CHINA HAD ONLY SINGLE SHOT BOLT ACTION RIFLES AGAINST DUGOUT DOUG AND HIS BATTLESHIPS WITH 16 INCH GUNS AND CARRIERS AND PLANES AND ARTILLERIES AND MA DEUCES WITH UNLIMITED AMMO.
AND THE USA FIASCO IN VIETNAM WHEN USA HAD 100 TIMES THE FIREPOWER OF CHINA AND VIETNAM
USA WERE WARNED NOT TO GO NORTH OF THE PARALLEL
USA dared not cross the parallel.
China told them if USA cross the parallel, China will put Chinese boots on the ground below the parallel in numbers that pale what China did when Dugout Doug approached the Yalu River.
USA remembered what happened when they encountered Chinese even though most of the Chinese had only single shot bolt action rifle against USA battleships and artillery and Ma Deuces and unlimited ammo.
USA blinked and blinked and tail between legs and did not have the cojones to cross.
AND NOW USA KNOW CHINA GOT LOTS OF BANG AND LONGER REACH THEN USA CAN DREAM OF.
AND ANY TIME USA WANT TO TURN PUSHING INTO REAL SHOVING, CHINA WILL BE MORE THAN READY AND WILLING TO TANGO
Chinese have about 3,000 of these kind of AShCMs.
In the form of Mach 3–4 YJ-12s carrying 400–500 semi shaped charge warheads, fired outside the AEGIS cover. The YJ-12 can also do evasive maneuvers to avoid anti-missile threats.
YJ-12 - Wikipedia
There is also the YJ-18 with reach exceeding Aegis cover. YJ-18 will start off at sub Mach 1. Until about 20 km from target , it will sprint at Mach 3–4 to deliver good news to the carrier .
China's YJ-18 Supersonic Anti-Ship Cruise Missile: America's Nightmare?
This Chinese description relates that the missile’s great strength is its “亚超结合的独特动力” [subsonic and supersonic combined unique propulsion]. Another term applied to this design is “双速制反舰导弹” [dual speed control ASCM]. As explained in the article, it is projected that YJ-18 would have an initial subsonic phase estimated at .8 Mach similar to the Klub of about 180km, but 20km from the target would unleash the supersonic sprint vehicle at speed of Mach 2.5 to 3. The “dual speed” function allows the system to realize certain advantages of subsonic cruise missiles, such as their “relatively long range, light weight and universality …” but also takes the chief advantage of supersonic ASCMs as well, namely the ability to “大幅压缩敌方的反应时间” [radically compress the enemy’s reaction time].
The Chinese article relates another advantage of the “dual speed” approach. Just as the missile comes into contact with the ship’s defenses, it “sheds the medium stage …,” thus simultaneously and dramatically altering both its speed and also its radar reflection, “which would impact the fire control calculation.” The likelihood that YJ-18 improves upon the Klub missile’s “digitization, automation, as well as providing more intelligent flight control and navigation technology” is attributed in the Chinese article to a recent Jane’s report.
