US 'bunker-buster' not powerful enough against Iran

[Ajaxpaul]

WASHINGTON: The US military has concluded that its largest conventional bomb is not capable of destroying Iran's most heavily fortified underground facilities suspected to be used for building nuclear weapons, The Wall Street Journal reported late Friday.

But citing unnamed US officials, the newspaper said the military was stepping up efforts to make it more powerful.

The 13.6-ton "bunker-buster" bomb, known as the Massive Ordnance Penetrator, was specifically designed to take out the hardened fortifications built by Iran and North Korea, the report said.

But initial tests indicated that the bomb, as currently configured, would not be capable of destroying some of Iran's facilities, either because of their depth or because Tehran has added new fortifications to protect them, the paper noted.

In a report issued in November, the International Atomic Energy Agency said intelligence from more than 10 countries and its own sources "indicates that Iran has carried out activities relevant to the development of a nuclear device."

It detailed 12 suspicious areas such as testing explosives in a steel container at a military base and studies on Shahab-3 ballistic missile warheads that the IAEA said were "highly relevant to a nuclear weapon programme."

Iran, which has come under unprecedented international pressure since the publication of the report, with Washington and the EU targeting its oil sector and central bank, rejected the dossier as based on forgeries.

Meanwhile, doubts about its bomb's effectiveness prompted the Pentagon this month to secretly submit a request to Congress for funding to enhance the bomb's ability to penetrate deeper into rock, concrete and steel before exploding, The Journal noted.

The Defense Department has spent about $330 million so far to develop about 20 of the bombs, which are built by Boeing Co., the report pointed out.

The Pentagon is seeking about $82 million more to make the bomb more effective, The Journal said.

Defense secretary Leon Panetta, in an interview with The Journal Thursday, acknowledged the bomb's shortcomings against some of Iran's deepest bunkers.

He said more development work would be done and that he expected the bomb to be ready to take on the deepest bunkers soon.

"We're still trying to develop them," Panetta said.



US 'bunker-buster' not powerful enough against Iran: Report - The Times of India

 

[gambit]

I do not need to destroy your house to make it unlivable. I just need to make you believe it is unlivable.

 

[cheekybird]

I do not need to destroy your house to make it unlivable. I just need to make you believe it is unlivable.

A strategy US uses against muslim countries....ONLY!

 

[Ajaxpaul]

So how do the US propose to take out the facilities if needed?

 

[gambit]

A strategy US uses against muslim countries....ONLY!

We do not need to destroy Iran's underground nuclear weapons development facilities. We only need to make their accessibility and maintenance difficult. Centrifuges must be mounted on seismic isolators...

Nuclear Energy in Iran| Iranian Nuclear Power

Iran is tectonically active, and nuclear power plants there need to be designed and built accordingly with high seismic criteria.

What this means is that if a centrifuge is spinning at 60,000-90,000 rpm it cannot be seismically disturbed if high separation efficiency is the goal. An earthquake can topple the device and will result in a structurally catastrophic failure. But we do not need to go that far.

Want to know how long it take for a non-disturbed uranium enrichment process?

Uranium Enrichment Calculator

It will take approximately 1079 days ( 2.96 years) to obtain 50 kilograms of highly-enriched Uranium (90% U235).

Now try to do that while working under the uncertainty of bombardment where in order to protect the centrifuges, long processes of shutdown and start up must be obeyed.

 

[iajj]

I do not need to destroy your house to make it unlivable. I just need to make you believe it is unlivable.

lol, i know america and korea have hated each other for so long the two countries would soon behave just like one another. what you are saying sounds so much like kim jong il when he inducted untested missiles into service because he knew the only thing he could count on was to play on probabilities and the perception and fear of his enemies. i thought u.s. had too much self-respect for this kind of rogue state tricks

 

[gambit]

lol, i know america and korea have hated each other for so long the two countries would soon behave just like one another. what you are saying sounds so much like kim jong il when he inducted untested missiles into service because he knew the only thing he could count on was to play on probabilities and the perception and fear of his enemies. i thought u.s. had too much self-respect for this kind of rogue state tricks

The difference here is not of type but of scale. For example: A car is not an aircraft while a 1000 lb bomb differ only in scale to a 500 lb bomb.

 

[Arian]

The USA tries its best to build new bunker buster bombs to penetrate into Iranian facilities and wastes it money on them but it takes Iran only some trucks loaded with cement and layers of high density materials to build new shields over its underground facilities to make the already hard penetration even harder and more impossible. Good game. Keep playing.

 

[Oldman1]

The USA tries its best to build new bunker buster bombs to penetrate into Iranian facilities and wastes it money on them but it takes Iran only some trucks loaded with cement and layers of high density materials to build new shields over its underground facilities to make the already hard penetration even harder and more impossible. Good game. Keep playing.

Current buster bunker bomb depends on gravity to penetrate hardened facilities that Iran are building to protect nuclear weapons development deep underground. U.S. is right now adding rocket assist to increase the penetration. Nothing is impossible when you think outside the box.

This is a small 250 pound bomb penetrating a meter of concrete and steel.
Small Diameter Bomb tested on Bunker. - YouTube

And you think about it, its not like we expect to just drop one bomb on a target when you can easily drop more than 1 on the same target if the first is not going to succeed.

 

[graphican]

That report simply means USA is not looking to attack Iran. Why cannot they use two bunker-busters, one after the other to get similar effect? If they are sure they are hitting a nuclear facility, they could use more than 2.. or not?

 

[MehrotraPrince]

One needs to understand that enrichment of Uranium is not simpe job, it is similar to building a house with playing cards. You disturb one card and whole structure fails, then you need to start from zero.
May be US 'Bunker-buster' bombs are not powerful enough to penetrate deep into Iranian facility, still seismic waves generated during explosion will damage most of the centrifuges, which is enough to stop enrichment process for few years.

 

[Oldman1]

One needs to understand that enrichment of Uranium is not simpe job, it is similar to building a house with playing cards. You disturb one card and whole structure fails, then you need to start from zero.
May be US 'Bunker-buster' bombs are not powerful enough to penetrate deep into Iranian facility, still seismic waves generated during explosion will damage most of the centrifuges, which is enough to stop enrichment process for few years.

WWII Earthquake bombs.

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

That report simply means USA is not looking to attack Iran. Why cannot they use two bunker-busters, one after the other to get similar effect? If they are sure they are hitting a nuclear facility, they could use more than 2.. or not?

Right now the U.S. is developing the Massive Ordnance Penetrator and modifying the bomb bays of the B2 to be allowed to carry 2 MOP bunker busters.

 

[Arian]

Current buster bunker bomb depends on gravity to penetrate hardened facilities that Iran are building to protect nuclear weapons development deep underground. U.S. is right now adding rocket assist to increase the penetration. Nothing is impossible when you think outside the box.

This is a small 250 pound bomb penetrating a meter of concrete and steel.
Small Diameter Bomb tested on Bunker. - YouTube

And you think about it, its not like we expect to just drop one bomb on a target when you can easily drop more than 1 on the same target if the first is not going to succeed.

The video is great.

Well, I don't disagree with you, you're right. All projectiles depend on gravity to fall down on the target as the main source of energy for falling down, the USA could add rocket assistance to the bomb and that would help the bomb to fall down faster and penetrate more because it will create a higher impulse in a certain time interval, but my point is that Iran can take counter-measures easier and cheaper than the USA can build mightier bunker buster bombs. Iran can create a several layer shield to protect its facilities, the first layers will be soft fibers produced by nano-technology like a web that will embrace the bomb and the web will increase the time factor during the impulse and second layers can be high density materials like depleted uranium with heavy layers of plumb and cement surrounding it or other things. Iran is a very mountainous country and is engulfed by mountains all around it, so it naturally has many perfect places to build underground facilities and can protect them well too. If your bombers try to drop more than one or two bombs, they need to spend a higher amount of time on the target and that increases the risk of being hit by Iran's air defense. So There must be a balance. You must do your job quickly and efficiently. You can't drop something on Iranian facilities that won't finish the job and you can't drop enough bombs on Iran while your bombers are being identified and hit by Iranian air defense. I don't underestimate the US air force though, but it's not easy either.

---------- Post added at 05:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:05 PM ----------

One needs to understand that enrichment of Uranium is not simpe job, it is similar to building a house with playing cards. You disturb one card and whole structure fails, then you need to start from zero.
May be US 'Bunker-buster' bombs are not powerful enough to penetrate deep into Iranian facility, still seismic waves generated during explosion will damage most of the centrifuges, which is enough to stop enrichment process for few years.

True, but even if they succeed in damaging all of our centrifuges, we still have thousands more to replace them, just like what happened in the Stuxnet case. We are operating only one fifth of the number of centrifuges we have and we'll keep doing the same to ensure that our enrichment is not going to be stopped forcefully.

 

[amalakas]

Why?

Why is it so important to have nuclear weapons?

 

[longbrained]

Double post...