US blocked transfer of Jordanian F-16s to Pakistan

[Tshering22]

Even turkey wanted pakistani pilots to train their pilots on their f-16's, U.S vetoed it even.
From where pakistan will get spare parts of f-16 during war ?

There are always grey channels of arranging spare parts. Take the pre-1992 collaboration between India and Israel.

Pakistan can always source the parts from anywhere in the Arab world. Arabs don't mind acquiring additional spare parts by jumping up a perceived threat in the region (given the region's volatile dynamics) and perhaps provide assistance.

 

[wiseone2]

Not necessarily. Every state has certain coercive tools to ensure internal subversion is addressed.



Generals in Pakistan have proven to be equally moronic. Don’t forget ZAB spent years just trying to make the military take the nuclear program a serious. Some of their objections were quite hilarious.Truth is Pakistan needs its politics to be run by professionals that don’t militate too far off from its national interests. The current setup where democracy is basically a family run business affair won’t cut anymore. The judiciary has an opportunity to clean things up. The military tried at various points and simply ended up nurturing and entrenching this democracy as family business culture creating a false choice btween dictatorship and the family business of the Sharifs and the Bhuttos. A third force needs to be assisted by any means necessary.

who are voting for the Sharifs and Bhuttos ?? I assume they are Pakistanis

 

[Raider 21]

There are always grey channels of arranging spare parts. Take the pre-1992 collaboration between India and Israel.

Pakistan can always source the parts from anywhere in the Arab world. Arabs don't mind acquiring additional spare parts by jumping up a perceived threat in the region (given the region's volatile dynamics) and perhaps provide assistance.

It won't work as of these days....Arab world lately aren't too happy of a Pakistan saying no to their undeniable commands. Then again spare parts can reach from anywhere.....Iranians got Phantom spares from Israel and Tomcat spares from the US on the black market.

 

[Mav3rick]

Didn't PAF get some F-16 C/D models at $30 million a piece ?

PAF did buy older F-16's but that too is a decision with which I do not concur.

Perhaps it is time that we openly admitted that US is neither our partner nor a friend. That we may simply have some goals aligned and even then our interests and objectives may not be aligned.

 

[Tshering22]

It won't work as of these days....Arab world lately aren't too happy of a Pakistan saying no to their undeniable commands. Then again spare parts can reach from anywhere.....Iranians got Phantom spares from Israel and Tomcat spares from the US on the black market.

There are always strategic bargains, and in wartime even black markets can be easily accessed by intelligence agencies.

Arabs are still not as over you as you think they are.

Think about it; they still issue and support statements against us in international (though irrelevant by any means) gatherings.

Which means they don't want to throw all eggs in one basket.

 

[Raider 21]

There are always strategic bargains, and in wartime even black markets can be easily accessed by intelligence agencies.

Arabs are still not as over you as you think they are.

Think about it; they still issue and support statements against us in international (though irrelevant by any means) gatherings.

Which means they don't want to throw all eggs in one basket.

Just talking out of experience through interaction with their militaries. Not all are like that....but I'm talking about a general picture. What happens or not is out of our hands, as speaking on an online defence forum does not come up with solutions as they have their own respective people in the field who normally call the shots.

 

[Joe Shearer]

None of it pertains to performance
Apples or oranges


The effectiveness of all these is moot

Totally ineffective, and based on wishful thinking.

That was the point.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

PAF did buy older F-16's but that too is a decision with which I do not concur.

Perhaps it is time that we openly admitted that US is neither our partner nor a friend. That we may simply have some goals aligned and even then our interests and objectives may not be aligned.

Arkadashim, the US folks have 70% divorce rate....

 

[ziaulislam]

Didn't PAF get some F-16 C/D models at $30 million a piece ?

nope, only the one from Jordan were old
PAF never got older ones
older ones are very cheap and USA will only allow older f-16 to be sold to any country when it want some strategic shift, \ example is Romania and Indonesia, they got older f-16s when USA wanted them to move away from russain equipment

Army and Navy have done the right thing by moving away from US made weapons where possible, especially in the main offensive weapon category like MBT, submarines, Frigates etc.
Then why isn't PAF moving away from US made F16 as it's main offensive weapon.

yeah yeah like signing 1 billion dollars for just 12 Zulus was moving
way from US equipment

 

[BATMAN]

Don’t forget ZAB spent years just trying to make the military take the nuclear program a serious. Some of their objections were quite hilarious

I wasn't born than, I'm in no position to comment and neither willing to take historic accounts for certain. There always exist many versions of same history.
Objections are part of improvement process and nuclear program was continued by the military, until next round of democracy.
We have on record our ex-FM Shah Mehmood Qureshi stating that he was asked by US to roll back Pakistan's nuclear program.
Coming back to ZAB... he was also a martial administrator, and if i recall history of 80's than so was NS but an unannounced one.
These are facts of history, which no one can deny.

Truth is Pakistan needs its politics to be run by professionals that don’t militate too far off from its national interests.

Pakistan need to ban politics, we loose time in playing politics.
This is the secret of China's progress, don't waste time on non productive activities. We need similar formulae.

The military tried at various points and simply ended up nurturing and entrenching this democracy as family business culture creating a false choice btween dictatorship and the family business of the Sharifs and the Bhuttos.

Again big NO. Politicians grew out of their skin, when ever they went astray from military nurturing. Pakistan saw worst of politicians after departure of Gen. Zia ul Haq and Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

 

[Falcon26]

We just moved the World Court, citing Pakistan's role as a terrorist harbouring nation, and the very bad ways of Pakistani netizens in provoking peaceful neighbouring countries with misleading graphics mashing together ethnicity, linguistics and genetic descent.

You are now road-kill.

I wasn't born than, I'm in no position to comment and neither willing to take historic accounts for certain. There always exist many versions of same history.
Objections are part of improvement process and nuclear program was continued by the military, until next round of democracy.
We have on record our ex-FM Shah Mehmood Qureshi stating that he was asked by US to roll back Pakistan's nuclear program.
Coming back to ZAB... he was also a martial administrator, and if i recall history of 80's than so was NS but an unannounced one.
These are facts of history, which no one can deny.


Pakistan need to ban politics, we loose time in playing politics.
This is the secret of China's progress, don't waste time on non productive activities. We need similar formulae.



Again big NO. Politicians grew out of their skin, when ever they went astray from military nurturing. Pakistan saw worst of politicians after departure of Gen. Zia ul Haq and Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

Not being around a certain period doesn’t obstruct you from learning about history. There are many books on the nuclear program especially Eating Grass among others that corroborate the military opposition to the nuclear program. I brought up this aspect to illustrate a point.

With regards to politicization of society, I tend to agree with you but an informed and politically vibrant society is an asset too and has its own benefits.

About your final point, I guess what I was trying to say is that military hasn’t really brought about a transformation in the political process the way other dictatorships in other countries like Turkey, South Korea, Taiwan and others have in which the old order was destroyed to create a new political systems. In Pakistan, the old order is simply repackaged. But that’s just my opinion and I could very well be very wrong.

 

[BATMAN]

I guess what I was trying to say is that military hasn’t really brought about a transformation in the political process the way other dictatorships in other countries like Turkey, South Korea, Taiwan and others have in which the old order was destroyed to create a new political systems. In Pakistan, the old order is simply repackaged. But that’s just my opinion and I could very well be very wrong.

I agree to your opinion here.
I would just add that, our Generals tried a bit in this direction when they introduced local bodies govt. a true democratic system. yes, it was not refined and strengthened enough to curtail authority of state over public funds, which are THE source of corruption.

 

[aziqbal]

Pakistans own fault

They cut Erieye and F16 after 2006 earthquake

At no point should military budget be effected by political decisions even natural disasters, we can build country later but you can defend later

Did cutting those orders make any difference? Only to airforce

After that we had dozens of opportunities to buy up new and old fighters we didn't

So now they are crying about blockage by US? Why ? You didn't learn from 1980s saga? You get the chance you take it if not stay quite no point in embarrassing yourself again and again

 

[MastanKhan]

When it's about F-16's, PAF will always manage from somewhere somehow ,they always do!

Hi,

Nations defense equipment and major weapons are not " managed like that ".

 

[volatile]

J10 B/C with AESA / IRST will be excellent platform in A2A and compliment JF17 thru Karakorams Eagle and data link
1 J10 with 3 JF17 ,what a sight it will be for F16 the role can be more defensive and SEAD