US bill links military aid to A Q Khan

[ajpirzada]

its a military aid and not economic. internal pressure (military and political) will exceed US pressure and i doubt if GoP will accept this. if they do then it will be a shameful act

 

[pak-marine]

Well i actually hope zardari accepts this aid.
This will prove tht he is a US slave and not a pakistani.
And his accepting this bill will finally,hopefully wake up the pakistani nation tht a revolution is needed to get this country back into order(Cubian or Iranian style.I prefer Iranian)

I also hope the senate passes this bill , and i am also sure zardari wil never ever accept this deal he knows v pakistanis wont give up aq khan , the whole pakistani nation is behind aq khan "he is the Hero..... he will never ever in his wildest dreams do any thing stupid like this ......if he is any politician....! May b US just want to end this what they have been winging about "blank cheques"" to Pak!?

Now if this happens this might get tricky for the nation and the situation may get more tougher for us ,but i see the bigger picture, ....this wil help our nation in getting rid of this foriegn AID, this war fund is behind most of the problems v have today , The greed for more bheek is killing our nations pride, sovernity and ego and its making us to do more silly things dictated by some one else, which in the long run is not in the self interest of Pakistan as well as the region. Our politicians and govts rely on so much on this that once in power without wasting any time they start going for their bhekari campaign... and may be who knows once the AID stops having no choice we might get on our feet and start rebuilding our nation again. I hope this hapens and the choice will be finally ours. I say hell with the bheek ...... we are hard working people and can make it happen without any ones stupid money.

After decades of opression .....speacilly in present times Pakistanis have become more responsible for their actions, and if there is a "revolution" , I am sure we can come up with some thing more productive and beneficial for the masses rather than again getting twisted in an indivisual or groups opinion and ideas.

 

[niaz]

I've long encouraged Pakistanis to stand up and let America really know how you abhor them. It's time to reject American money like cheap painted whores and ignore them at every turn.

Your dignity is at stake and until you define your venom at the American government you won't be able to look yourselves in the mirror.

I think you should determine to repel any PREDATOR attacks, mine and fence your borders, retain your solid ties with Haqqani, Hekmatyar, and Omar in supporting their assault upon the afghan people and let the American government KNOW that any supplies through Pakistan shall be over your dead bodies.

You cannot afford to ignore your best weapons, the militants, to accomodate the Americans placing Indian interests over Pakistanis when it comes to Afghanistan.

Time to teach the Americans some respect. Time to earn a little in the process.

Hon Sir,

I would ignore the obvious sarcasm in the above post. We don’t need to teach any one anything. However, we need to reject any aid with conditions. Pakistan needs ‘Friends not Masters’ as aptly put by Ayub Khan in his book 40 years ago,

Pakistan has to stand her ground. It is not only a matter of national honor but also her survival. Main reason for the extremists in roads in our society is the perception that Pakistan is nothing but a US lackey. Besides, what is the point of getting all the expensive toys when they are never going to be used anyway?

Our basic strategy should be:

1.Increase our nuclear arsenal to ensure that we can destroy a very large part of India if attacked on the Eastern front. This should take care of any misadventure by our erstwhile neighbor.

2.Relentlessly pursue Taliban and have them either eliminated or at worst blockaded up in small pockets near Afghanistan border.

3.All the major cities must be cleared of Taliban and jihadi nurseries to prevent another Lal Masjid or a repeat of attack on the Sri Lankan cricket team. This was surely a national disgrace and evidently committed by Lashkar Jhangvi/ SSP Pakistan. Darlings of the bigots Zia and his henchman Hamid Gul.

4.Aim for complete self reliance for national defense even if it means having to defend ourselves with home made rifles and shot guns.

5.Refuse all military and economic aid from US; instead ask US to open up the US market for Pakistani manufactured goods.

6.Increase our education budget to at least 10% of our GDP instead of the current target of 4% to be achieved in 3 years time.

As the nation learns to live within her means; it would surely create severe hardship for a few years at the start (may be a whole generation) but the nation which emerges from this ‘Acid Test’ will be far stronger and of a different mettle than the crop of Zardaris, Sharifs, Niazis and Chauhdries.

IMO there is no other way out of the current ‘beggars can’t be choosers’ attitude that we have been accustomed to for the last 50 years. If any country offers aid to Pakistan, it would only be welcome as long as it is on our terms. Else we say “Thank you but no thank you”.

Do we have spine enough for the above?

 

[ajpirzada]

^^increasing nuclear arsenal and 10% education budget cant go together. also y do u think we will ever bomb india?? nuclear bomb is only there to threaten ppl. dont tell me ull feel gud when so many innocent ppl will die. also dont forget that in return they will bomb us as well.
i agree with ur other points

 

[S-2]

"Hon Sir,

I would ignore the obvious sarcasm in the above post."

Then I'll ignore the "Hon", sir, but you'd be wrong to ascribe sarcasm to my comments.

I implore each and every Pakistani who can read my comments at face-value to understand my embrace of absolute transparency in relations.

You know how you feel about all of the issues which I highlighted and I don't think I mis-read the overwhelming sentiment to such one bit. If so, then you owe it to yourselves to profoundly reject

"... the perception that Pakistan is nothing but a US lackey"

Nothing would do so more than rejecting our aid and seeking conditionless aid from your "friends", the PRC- like last fall when Zardari went begging hat in hand.

"Friends" indeed, but that's beside the point for whom you turn. More important is from whom you turn away. Leaving America's fold seems paramount to your nat'l self-esteem. That you reject these possible aid conditions describes to us just how far you've yet to travel but that's your business.

Breaking relations will remove the malignant subterfuge behind which your leaders hide when blaming your ills to your citizens upon America. Time to leave that ersatz opiate behind and step out into the brave new world.

No better time than now for your country.

Please don't hesitate to reject our aid. It will be a GRAND wake-up call for everybody concerned and your headaches are sure to cease for an hour or two...maybe three.

Hopefully, that'll be just enough time for America to come to it's senses and accept this new circumstance.

I fervently pray that Pakistan finds it's reward. As your "friends" the Chinese say,

"May you live in interesting times".

 

[Patriot]

Steve Trust me your aid is not worth it.Write your senators to cancel our aid.Dumb American's hate us and still can't stop the aid.I thought America was a democracy?Yes, PRC did not give us money but are we sad about it?No, we're not.It's our mistake that our leaders did not develop good economy.On the other hand we have a aggresive super power who blame us for their failure in Afghanistan.China has never blamed us for anything and i am glad that they did not provide aid.I'd rather have Pakistan China friendship relation instead of relation like US ie Master Friend Relation.Ideally, i would have preffered close US-PAK ties but it's just not possible unless our economy is fully fixed then our friendship with US should be in economical field.

 

[niaz]

English is not my mother tongue, so I can misinterpret. But according to my simple mind, post by Hon S-2 contains overt sarcasm and innuendo that Pakistan will eventually acquiesce and accept US Aid despite all the strings, as they can’t do without it. Hon S-2 may be right in his assumption but the implied insult hurts real bad nonetheless. Pakistan in fact rejected 200 million dollar military aid from Jimmy Carter in 1979 at the start of Russian invasion of Afghanistan; Zia calling it 'peanuts'

Pakistan didn’t always rely on foreign aid. It was a very long time ago but if I remember correctly, first time Pakistan received aid from US was in 1955 (1-million tons wheat). Therefore Pakistan can survive without any aid at all. I would also like to clarify that I didn’t suggest that we should go to the Chinese or to any other country for that matter. I am advocating that we should learn to manage within our means.

I grew up in a village with no metalled roads, no electricity and managed to have a reasonably happy childhood and fairly decent early education. My point is that even if for a generation Pakistanis have to manage without any outside assistance whatsoever, it would not be end of the world. As nation, we must learn to survive without any outside influence or assistance so that we can determine our own destiny. No doubt when I was young there was no Taliban and sectarian menace. Therefore we have to cleanse our society of this cancer completely so that we can concentrate our energies on self reliance instead.

 

[S-2]

"Hon S-2 may be right in his assumption but the implied insult hurts real bad nonetheless."

I'm truly sorry for any pain and you're incorrect on my assumption.

I cannot see how you can achieve the full expression of your ambitions while linked to America.

I honestly believe that my nation has nothing but the best of intentions and hopes for your people and government. Flat out. We wouldn't make you such a critical aid target were that not the case.

Your rejection of our "conditions", however, suggests that you see little value in these conditions beyond some sense of sovereign infringement.

I'm sorry for that. As such, you must earn your way in this world to have matters as you wish. "Earn" means exactly that-absent the freely-given largesse of others.

"I am advocating that we should learn to manage within our means."

Indeed. Re-prioritizing your needs to match your means will be a GREAT start to this process and will earn you the unbridled respect of every serious observer on this planet.

If America were to lose any chance for a permanent friendship as a result of these measures, it would be every bit as hurtful to me-but worthwhile.

I don't think I've the time or this board the space to discuss all the possible down-stream permutations that might arise from such. IMV, most of them good for EVERYBODY concerned.

"I grew up in a village with no metalled roads, no electricity and managed to have a reasonably happy childhood and fairly decent early education. My point is that even if for a generation Pakistanis have to manage without any outside assistance whatsoever, it would not be end of the world. As nation, we must learn to survive without any outside influence or assistance so that we can determine our own destiny. No doubt when I was young there was no Taliban and sectarian menace. Therefore we have to cleanse our society of this cancer completely so that we can concentrate our energies on self reliance instead."

Believe it or not but there are three people here whose comments I follow with great interest. You're one of them. This paragraph is perfectly put and only re-affirms my personal thoughts of you. You're really wrong about me here, though, and I hold to my comments.

You must reject our aid. Even were it accepted in the spirit with which it's offered, I'm convinced that the only people who'd feel such would be your leadership-and perhaps for all the wrong reasons.

Thanks.

 

[S-2]

"On the other hand we have a aggresive super power who blame us for their failure in Afghanistan."

We haven't failed but we clearly recognize that stabilizing and improving Afghanistan is encumbered heavily by a raging insurgency whose leadership and key command & control and logistics nodes rest comfortably on your lands.

Fact.

Aside from America, this condition interferes with the work and takes the blood and treasure of forty other nations- all of whom keep score just as we do. Ignoring such is a consequence of your myopic hatred of America. Thus forty other nations are our "lackeys", I suppose.

We have NOT failed nor do we intend to do so regardless of how failure is fervently cheered for by Pakistanis. And it IS cheered, is it not? Our departure would be double cause for celebration- shaming America (and forty other contributing nations) and you'd be back to your old and happy games in Afghanistan.

Until you de-personalize this conflict with America and realize the impact of your actions on all these nations, you'll continue to wander in the wilderness.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Americans do not want to give aid yet the GoUS wants to give aid to Pakistan.

Pakistanis do not want to accept aid, especially conditional, yet the GoP wants to accept aid.

I second Niaz sahib's comments.

 

[ajpirzada]

Americans do not want to give aid yet the GoUS wants to give aid to Pakistan.

Pakistanis do not want to accept aid, especially conditional, yet the GoP wants to accept aid.

I second Niaz sahib's comments.

very well put. the two gov just cant live without each other however its the total opposite when it comes to ppl of both the countries

 

[Bane Blade]

Iranian style means country will go back to stone ages.No islamic revolution please....I guess you are a Mullah thats why you are happy about Iranian Style.

Better Mullah's then Army Dictators however notice the 2 options mentioned have the poorest people in the world so it won't be the best system to emulate.

 

[qsaark]

Iranian style means country will go back to stone ages.No islamic revolution please....I guess you are a Mullah thats why you are happy about Iranian Style.

Have you ever been to 'stone age' Iran? I have been. Would you like to elaborate what 'stone age' actually means to you and than educate us on how you think Iran is living in the 'stone age'?

I am not a big fan of Wikipedia, but if you go here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran, probably you'll find that Iran is not quite living in 'stone age' as you think or wish.

 

[saiko]

Is AQ Khan worth $1.9 billion USD? That's the only question you really need to ask yourself.

 

[S-2]

This thread here needs to be merged with this thread there.

Exactly the same subject. EXACTLY.