US Baluch leaders seek Indian intervention

[qsaark]

Balochs have many complaints, and in other threads, I have been talking about them. The major problems are as follows:

1. Lack of representation in NA (only six seats). Equal representation is senate is useless.

2. Royalty issues on Sui gas and other resources of Balochistan

3. NFC award which allocated funds based on population instead of based on area (Balochistan is 44% of total Pakistan), and/or government income in forms of taxes, revenues etc.

4. Fewer Baloch bureaucrats, and technocrats in Balochistan Government and allied institutions.

5. Repeated military actions

Suffice to say that Balochs Sardars have tried to make all the settlers leave Balochistan even back in 1972 during the Government of Ata ullah Mengal. The result? Disaster is the only word I can use. Neither back in 1972, Baloch were able to run Balochistan, nor today in 2009 they are anywhere near able to run it on their own. And the reason is simple, lack of education, lack of technical skills, and above all lack of sincerity. Nationality alone is not and will never be suffice to run the Government.

From 1972 till today, the GoP had ample time to look into some of the most genuine problems and try to come up with a solution. Needless to say that they simply ignored Balochistan, and even today, they are not taking it seriously.

Balochs have many shortcomings (as I mentioned in above paragraphs) but there is smoke where there is fire. However, with all these problems, lack of confidence between the two parties, lack of interest on behalf of Islamabad, I would still like to seek a solution while staying within the constitutional limits.

Secession from Pakistan is not the solution. But again, the GoP has to take things seriously, because it is not 1970s, it is 2009. Things spread faster than you think and most of the time, in much exaggerated form. Pakistan is already having lots of problems and it would not be wise to add up even more problems to the pool of the existing ones.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Dear AM,

I read that part. As also the next two sentences "His brother Abdul Karim Baloch refused to surrender and revolted until his arrest in 1950.

The accession was already complete. What does his brother have to do with the legality of the accession?

IIRC, his bother and his band of brigands were given shelter in Afghanistan, that actively supported the rebels.

Baluchistan was put under Governor General control and no elective body formed in Baluchistan until 1973." I also read the part about the Pakistan Army forcefully occupying the area in 1948, much as they around the same time did the part of Kashmir you occupy today.

Actually you mean like India did in Junagadh and Hyderabad? Not sure if you ever got the rulers of those states to ever formally accede to India, as happened in Kalat.

At the end of the day the Khan acceded -that is the reality of the situation, and I'll try and get details of the Jirga's held there that supported the accession, unless Qsaark can post them instead.

I have a Balochi friend (also a biker) studying here in Pune ..... he come from one of the few very rich families there. Happy go lucky kid, into good clothes, girls, partying, like any other late-teen early-20s kid today. The only thing he gets truly hyper about (to the point of getting violent even) is if you bring up Pakistan and what is happening in Balochistan today.

I would not be exaggerating if I say that he probably hates Pakistanis more than even some of our hard-liner Indians. He also has pretty clear and vocal and radical views on Balochis and Pakistanis not even being from the same stock racially, and considers himself and other Balochis to be “pure blood” and closer in lineage to Iranis and Afghans.

He says Balochis do not consider themselves to be Pakistani ..... nor Afghan ..... nor Irani ..... they consider themselves to be Balochis ...... a distinct nation in itself ..... long before the partition of India. They feel oppressed, passed over, used, exploited, and marginalized under what they feel is a foreign rule (he paints a pretty Wild West picture of his “country”).

Anecdotal ....

A nation which shares parts of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran ...... and quite a big chunk at that. So the “claims” legal, existent or otherwise of Iran and Afghanistan, at least for him and other Balochis, do not come into the picture.

He can speak for himself, and others like him, not for all Baluch.

In addition, he cannot speak for the almost 30% Pashtun population in Baluchistan.

He is too young to remember the earlier 4 “Wars of Independence” fought with Pakistan, but that is how he refers to what you guys refer to as an “internal separatist movement.”

He is entitled to his extremely flawed opinion, but I think the facts are clear about the legal accession of the territories comprising Baluchistan to Pakistan, unlike the situation in Kashmir.

If some people are unhappy with the situation, then changes need to be made to restore the constitution back to the original form under which significant devolution of authority from the center to the provinces was envisioned, and resources allocated accordingly - but all of this must be within the ambit of the constitution of Pakistan, with Baluchistan a province of Pakistan.

I fail to see how you have established your assertion that, "Looks to me like the Balochistan issue is far from being a de-facto internal issue of a sovereign nation as is being made out here."

 

[qsaark]

The region was largely under Iranian kingly control and the autonomous principality of Kalat.

1. Part of Balochistan has been the part of British India at the time if partition. Iran never claimed Balochistan part of British India as Iranian territory. So, no this part has nothing to do with Iran.

2. Princely State of Kalat IS NOT Balochistan. Please refer to the map and see that the State only represents roughly 91,909 km² out of a total of 347,190 km² which is 26.4 % area of the Balochistan.

So the history you have given in your post# 30 is all fine, but does not apply to the entire Balochistan. Now if the present day Khan of Kalat has some problem regarding the treaty he signed, and GoP failed to honor (which indeed it did, I’ll not argue on this), this applies only to the former sate of Kalat not the entire Balochistan.

Kalat, Makran, and Lasbella continuing to exist as princely realms.

Wrong. Makran was the part of Muscat. Sultan Muscat ruled Makran through his appointed Governor whereas Lasbela was an independent princely state, not the part of Kalat. I hope you know that Aga Khan III paid £3 million to Sultan Mascat and gifted Gwader (Makran) to Pakistan.

Pakistani army entered the region to occupy the area immediately.

When did the troops left Quetta Cantt?

I have a Balochi friend (also a biker) studying here in Pune ..... he come from one of the few very rich families there. Happy go lucky kid, into good clothes, girls, partying, like any other late-teen early-20s kid today. The only thing he gets truly hyper about (to the point of getting violent even) is if you bring up Pakistan and what is happening in Balochistan today.

What is happening in Balochistan today? If something is happening in Balochsitan today than from where the riches of his family are coming? Obviously his family is prospering in Pakistani occupied Balochsitan else he would have ended up fixing bicycles in a roadside makeshift shop.

and considers himself and other Balochis to be “pure blood” and closer in lineage to Iranis and Afghans.

.Iranian and Afghans? Ask this idiot to read The Baloch Race Historical and Ethnological Sketch by Longworth Dames. I had to see the day that an ignorant teenager would tell me about my ancestry and genealogy!

One last thing, please bring this dirty ****** rich, ignorant and arrogant so-called Baloch teenager on this forum, and ask him to have a discussion with me.

 

[vsdoc]

Dear AM and Qsaark,

Thank you for your posts ...... as is obvious in everything in life, there are always two sides of a coin, and you have helped me see the other side.

Seems to me like this is a longstanding conflict (right from Independence to today) and seeing as to how Balochistan is nearly half of Pakistan in size (if not population) and extremely rich in natural resources, I can understand the intensity of the tug-of-war on both sides.

That said, looking at the above, I am surprised your government is concentrating its entire ideology for the past 60 years on Kashmir, when you are on the verge of losing a lot more from under your own feet, now that the issue has well and truly been internationalised (yes, I do not see India taking a backward step in paying Pakistan back in the same coin for Kashmir ..... you may argue and intellectualize, but time will tell).

Skewed priorities or convenient red herring ..... take your pick.

Cheers, Doc

 

[rubyjackass]

I am from Balochistan, and I lived in Balochistan for 25 long years. Few sold-out Baloch residing abroad do not represent us. The Indians should not even think that they or their intervention is welcome in Balochistan. We have differences with Islamabad on some issues, and they eventually will be resolved. Indians have nothing to do with this since this is strictly our internal matter. Indians can not be more cocerned about my home than I am. Please avoid posting this non-sense.

Mods please take appropriate action.

Balochistan Zinda bad, Pakistan Painda bad .

Believe me no one, ones that matter, is going to listen to them.
Of course India, atleast publicly, believes it has no business in Baluchistan.
Do you, personally, think India is really involved in Balochistan?

 

[Atheist]

Dude come on...atleast after seeing the Baloch Insurgency ( or whatever they may call it) I am happy that our precious tax money is being used to make RAW work (or are they still sleeping and India is simply being blamed?? )

As the Kashmir was a problem in 90's for India so will the Baloch be for Pakistan and then they will realize the importance of tough military stance in such disputed territories

 

[inferno]

Dude come on...atleast after seeing the Baloch Insurgency ( or whatever they may call it) I am happy that our precious tax money is being used to make RAW work (or are they still sleeping and India is simply being blamed?? )
:

with pm like mammo singh do you still think that india is helping baloch rebels.he even cannot have such evil deeds in his dreames

 

[vsdoc]

Much like the CIA, or the ISI, RAW too does not exactly toe the line of Govt. control on any and all issues. Its more like a general holistic overview and approval process than strict review and control. The underlying term in all such cases is known as "plausible deniability."

I am not saying or even insinuating that RAW or any other Indian agency/state/non-state player (currently popular terminology on the other side) is involved in any way. Nor am I debating the merits or otherwise of a tit-for-tat policy.

Bottom line is that Pakistan now has a much bigger full-blown migraine in its own backyard smack dab in the eyes of the entire global community, which soon over time is going to demote Kashmir to the status of a mild post-binge hangover headache.

Or in military parlance it could be likened to advancing to try and take over a small chunk of enemy territory, while a large chunk of your own (which again is debatable) behind you is left unprotected and soon to be cut off in a flanking maneuver.

And for that we can thank both our respective PMs.

Cheers, Doc

 

[asq]

Proof of Indian involvement in Afghanistan and Baluchistan.

Ahmed Quraishi.com

 

[asq]

Much like the CIA, or the ISI, RAW too does not exactly toe the line of Govt. control on any and all issues. Its more like a general holistic overview and approval process than strict review and control. The underlying term in all such cases is known as "plausible deniability."

I am not saying or even insinuating that RAW or any other Indian agency/state/non-state player (currently popular terminology on the other side) is involved in any way. Nor am I debating the merits or otherwise of a tit-for-tat policy.

Bottom line is that Pakistan now has a much bigger full-blown migraine in its own backyard smack dab in the eyes of the entire global community, which soon over time is going to demote Kashmir to the status of a mild post-binge hangover headache.

Or in military parlance it could be likened to advancing to try and take over a small chunk of enemy territory, while a large chunk of your own (which again is debatable) behind you is left unprotected and soon to be cut off in a flanking maneuver.

And for that we can thank both our respective PMs.

Cheers, Doc

total exaggeration by an Indian who is aware of his spy agencies, wonder why?

Have you are not up to date with the latest news, let me open your eyes. Pakistan has no more silly migraines, Our braves have taken care of them.

Unlike Indian Army, only killing innocents and raping women. Bad actors with bad and missing hamlet, and using a rag instead.

What kind of Army would expose its soldiers to bullets and not provide Helmets. Not very clever.

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/2222/010308israel1zi9.jpg

 

[vsdoc]

@asq .... my friend when you say your braves have taken care of the problem, do you mean they have killed EVERY Balochi who hates Pakistans guts?

If the answer is NO, then belive me when I tell you that your problem has only started and is just going to get bigger ...... with or without the so-called Op Black Tulsi and whatever else fertile imaginations can cook up.

And remember that you are not only talking about the Balochis whose land Pakistan occupies today ...... you are also talking about like-minded and militant Balochi brothers from across your common borders with Iran and Afghanistan walking across to help their freedom fighter brothers in their justifiable Jihad or War of Independence.

So where is pakistan going to concentrate its forces now? On its border with India? In occupied Kashmir? On its border in Afghanistan? On its border with Iran? In SWAT? In Balochistan? Or are you going to also wage war now with Iran and Afghanistan as you go across their borders after Balochi Freedom Fighters?

Seems like you guys have one hell of a "khichdi" cooking ..... or "khichda" as you guys like to call it.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Skywalker]

@asq .... my friend when you say your braves have taken care of the problem, do you mean they have killed EVERY Balochi who hates Pakistans guts?

If the answer is NO, then belive me when I tell you that your problem has only started and is just going to get bigger ...... with or without the so-called Op Black Tulsi and whatever else fertile imaginations can cook up.

And remember that you are not only talking about the Balochis whose land Pakistan occupies today ...... you are also talking about like-minded and militant Balochi brothers from across your common borders with Iran and Afghanistan walking across to help their freedom fighter brothers in their justifiable Jihad or War of Independence.

So where is pakistan going to concentrate its forces now? On its border with India? In occupied Kashmir? On its border in Afghanistan? On its border with Iran? In SWAT? In Balochistan? Or are you going to also wage war now with Iran and Afghanistan as you go across their borders after Balochi Freedom Fighters?

Seems like you guys have one hell of a "khichdi" cooking ..... or "khichda" as you guys like to call it.

Cheers, Doc

Another Indian and another conspiracy, dont worry about us take care of your own back yard, which is gonna explode if you continue poking your nose in somebody else's business.

Its tit for tat, btw we like khichda how about the haleem you are cooking in your own back yard.

Should I start telling you about Sikh in britain I know who hate India more than we hate you guys. bye bye.

 

[vsdoc]

What is haleem?

I like khichda ..... poor man's dhansak.

Cheers, Doc

 

[vsdoc]

So where is pakistan going to concentrate its forces now? On its border with India? In occupied Kashmir? On its border in Afghanistan? On its border with Iran? In SWAT? In Balochistan? Or are you going to also wage war now with Iran and Afghanistan as you go across their borders after Balochi Freedom Fighters?

Seems like you guys have one hell of a "khichdi" cooking ..... or "khichda" as you guys like to call it.

Cheers, Doc

P.S. Please add NWFP to above khichdi/khichda/haleem.

 

[asq]

@asq .... my friend when you say your braves have taken care of the problem, do you mean they have killed EVERY Balochi who hates Pakistans guts?

If the answer is NO, then belive me when I tell you that your problem has only started and is just going to get bigger ...... with or without the so-called Op Black Tulsi and whatever else fertile imaginations can cook up.

And remember that you are not only talking about the Balochis whose land Pakistan occupies today ...... you are also talking about like-minded and militant Balochi brothers from across your common borders with Iran and Afghanistan walking across to help their freedom fighter brothers in their justifiable Jihad or War of Independence.

So where is pakistan going to concentrate its forces now? On its border with India? In occupied Kashmir? On its border in Afghanistan? On its border with Iran? In SWAT? In Balochistan? Or are you going to also wage war now with Iran and Afghanistan as you go across their borders after Balochi Freedom Fighters?

Seems like you guys have one hell of a "khichdi" cooking ..... or "khichda" as you guys like to call it.

Cheers, Doc

Sir you are assuming again, I am talking about Wazirustan and other north areas and not Baluchistan.

In Baluchistan there are no traitors like Mujib, and the one who are there are few and far between and India cannot do any thing other than talk big.

In Baluchistan we can deploy our forces as much as it requires, not like east Pakistan where we could not deploy due to distances, India interfered by training traitors like mukti buhinis for more than 5 years and attacked a sovereign nation without any provocations.

So don't play with fancy words and be truthful and state the facts.