US attitude unacceptable - PM Gillani

[S-2]

"I am surprised that you are following a liberal language!! I hope political truthness has not gotten to you because there is only one type!!!"

Expand on these thoughts in a P.M. if you wouldn't mind. I'm not entirely certain that I understand you.

Thanks.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

Gillani needs to be reminded which master he has selected for himself. He gets his paycheck from the US in the form of Kerry-Lugar Aid. The master may impose any sort of attitude upon the slave. Just shut-up take it.

S-2, please travel with me once through JFK . You'll see how many of us get "randomly selected" each time. Once I was travelling with another naturalized citizen - he looks Pakistani as well. We were in totally separate queues, first I got approached in the queue "Sir do you mind showing me your passport", then I was put in a box. The rest of JFK looking at me like I'm going to blow the place up. Looking around I saw Muslims of all types and shapes being pulled out

Anyway, we were then walked off to corner of the immigration area where all the Muslims were thrown in one section. Only Muslims, mostly Pakistanis. I was poking fun at the citizen friend of mine that even he's no better than us . Anyway being citizen n all usually invokes some sort of indignation amongst Americans and he goes to one of the immigration officers (was it TSA?) and is like why exactly have I been stopped? "Oh sir we've randomly selected a few people for some extra checks".

Goto JFK any day, any time, take a look at both the ends of the Immigration area of terminal 4. You'll find out glaring racial profiling going on under the guise of "Random Selection".

We were let go after 6 hours of questioning by dumb security guards who talked like they were High School drop outs, they were following a script of questions and obviously had no skills in picking out real terrorists and contribute nothing to the safety of America.

A few security checks by Pakistani security when you're carrying fake number plates... Totally valid!

Sad. Unfortunately people won't care until it happens to them personally. With the new see-through "naked" body scanners that takes pictures of you and sends it to a centralized storage site, it will only get worse.

There's a passage in the (fictional?) novel Animal Farm that I find most memorable. It goes something like this:

"We are all equal, it is just that some of us are 'more' equal than others."

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

My preference? Any man arriving at an airport-caucasian, christian, from Sweden and his wife-blond, blue-eyed should be directed with their luggage to separate rooms.

Get naked. Open all of your luggage. Strip-searched and luggage inspected right in front of you. From there your luggage moves to the plane and you move to a waiting area-bar, toiletries, shopping...but secured externally.

Arrive extra early.

Flying is a privilege. So's entering a foreign nation.

Thanks.

Isn't it hypocritical how this is a double standard. Wonder how the 'masters' would feel when they are treated the same by the 'slave' nations?!

The sword cuts both ways my friend, the sword cuts both ways.

 

[S-2]

"We are all equal, it is just that some of us are 'more' equal than others."

Most equal would, of course, be the Han dragons of the middle kingdom.

Thanks.

 

[S-2]

"The sword cuts both ways my friend, the sword cuts both ways."

Swords?

Forcibly reunite caucasian S-2's provincial birthplace first and I'll worry about swords.

Swords crack on ROC.

Taiwan's a ROC.

Obama Eyes Arms Sales To Taiwan-Reuters Dec. 9, 2009

Going to become a harder ROC in the near future...

Come and get it...

...if you can

Learn not to issue empty threats.

Thanks.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

"We are all equal, it is just that some of us are 'more' equal than others."

Most equal would, of course, be the Han dragons of the middle kingdom.

Thanks.

Yet, who is it whose discriminating against the Muslims and Chinese and Vietnamese and Africans and Arabs and Natives???

Please don't shift blame from the oppressor onto the victims, it's is very low class. Why is it so hard to accept the hard facts? It is sad people fall prey to yet another "alleged" Muslim bomber (this time it's a Nigerian). Start from the beginning, examine the hard facts and you'll discover 911 was a False Flag operation. Is it because of the internal prejudice that people don't want to research the facts? Funny how there was never the 19 bombers on board the plane. In fact, when the names and photos of the bombers aired on TV and on Internet, these same bombers (who were supposed dead in the crash) were still ALIVE. There are many other intricacies and evidence if one is willing to investigate. Even the family of the victims in New York know this is a False Flag, and many were threatened to keep their mouths shut. So much for freedom and truth.

It is this "Clash of Civilizations" or Crusaders v2.0 that is being thrust upon the world. Who stands to benefit and who suffers?

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

On an unrelated note, Christian Evangelist Pat Robertson hailed the deaths of up to 50,000s of Haitians in the Earthquake, calling it the will of God, and condemning them as 'SATAN Worshipers". Is Pat Robertson a religious zealot? a christian zionist? a fanatic?

More than any of these, Pat Robertson is a weazel who preys on the gullible, lives on a tax-free mansion, getting rich off the foolish. He is as religious as the Dalai Lama or Charles Manson.

The lesson here is don't get blinded by these false preachers, nor be fooled by mass propaganda.

 

[ssheppard]

Pak whining on attacks draws rebuke from US

Shut up and put up, is the curt message the United States is sending Pakistan after Islamabad’s incessant whine about drone attacks on its territory. Washington says the complaints are hypocritical considering Pakistani leaders support the strikes in private and the hits are clearly damaging terrorists with minimum civilian casualties.

In a public rebuke to the Pakistani leadership on Thursday, a leading US lawmaker, supported by the Obama administration, told reporters after a visit to the region that he was ''very unhappy'' with the vocal criticism of the drone strikes from top officials in Islamabad when in private they "not only understand and acquiesce but in many cases support the drone attacks."

Washington, US Senate Armed Services Committee chairman Carl Levin, told reporters in a conference call, would prefer "a silence on their part rather than a public attack on us that creates real problems for us in terms of the Pakistani public and helps create some real animosity" against the United States.

"I just think it's wrong for them, I've told them that to their face," said Levin, who met in Pakistan with Pakistan Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani and Pakistan's army chief of staff Ashfaq Kayani.

Gilani, Kayani, and interior minister Rehman Malik are seen as part of the hard-line clique that has adopted the tactic of whipping up public hysteria against US and India with phony, malicious charges, including feigned outrage about drone strikes and charges of interference in Baluchistan, to win the support of the fundamentalist constituency and rally a demoralized army.

The tactic has led even Pakistani civil society activists like Asma Jehangir to contend that their government is engineering a hostile atmosphere even as the people desire peace. India’s foreign secretary Nirupama Rao too alluded to it at a conference in New Delhi on Thursday when she accused Pakistan of using “terrorist ideologies to promote unscrupulous political or institutional agendas."

Levin’s rebuke has been quietly endorsed by the Obama administration, which has launched a drone strike after each visit by a US interlocutor in the past fortnight during which Pakistan complained about the attacks. Seven drone strikes have followed the December 30 attack in Khost that killed seven CIA and affiliated personnel, including one on Thursday targeting Hakimullah Mehsud, who evidently engineered suicide strike on the CIA forward base by a Jordanian doctor.

There were conflicting reports about the fate of Mehsud, with some Taliban spokesman contending he had escaped the attack.

The US has now launched a counter-campaign to show that contrary to exaggerated Pakistani accounts of civilian casualties, the drone strikes have actually attrited terrorists based in Pakistan.

According to the blog Long War Journal, which tracks the drone strikes, the ratio of civilian to al-Qaida casualties in 2009 was one to ten (43 to 463) and not the other way around as suggested by the Pakistani leadership. Unmanned aerial vehicle attacks have been "extremely successful" at "knocking off a significant number of Taliban leaders and Al-Qaeda leaders," Levin said.

The US assertion has been backed by some of Pakistan’s civil society activists not manipulated by the hard-line militaristic leadership. According to Farhat Taj, an Oslo, Norway-based researcher originally from the Fata region, contrary to the anti-US propaganda spread by Islamabad, the people of Waziristan, suffering from occupation by Al Qaeda and Taliban, actually welcome the drone attacks.

''They see the US drone attacks as their liberators from the clutches of the terrorists into which, they say, their state has willfully thrown them,'' Taj said in a recent article in which she said her kinsmen described the Pakistani intelligence agencies and the Taliban as ''two sides of the same coin.''

Washington has apparently cottoned on to the Pakistani perfidy judging by Levin’s public dressing down. Emboldened by the findings, the Obama administration has cranked up the attacks in recent days, unleashing a drone strike every other day in January this year. The stepped-up attack follows the more than 50 strikes that the Obama administration initiated in 2009, more than all the attacks ordered by the Bush administration during its eight years.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...-draws-rebuke-from-US/articleshow/5446599.cms

 

[S-2]

"Yet, who is it whose discriminating against the Muslims..."

Go ask a chinese uighar for your answer.

"...and Chinese and Vietnamese and Africans and Arabs and Natives???"

All of which live happily in America, to include muslims. By choice. They chose to live in America. How many caucasians are immigrating to the PRC for all that socialist equality and prosperity?

Proof is before your eyes when people vote with their feet...

Thanks.

 

[S-2]

Don't know if you've seen this but I'd encourage you to read the DAWN, DAILY TIMES, and WSJ opinion pieces that I've posted.

They're all especially relevant to this thread and your article and won't in any way derail the thread's intent with sham racist diatribes from beijing toadies. Ms Farhat Taj's article is one of them. It's located in the DAWN link.

EDIT: Actually, I'll just post the original right here-

FARHAT TAJ On Drones-DAILY TIMES

Irfan Husain had this to say about Ms. Taj's studies in DAWN here-

Howling At The Moon-DAWN

And this from the Wall Street Journal-

The Drone Wars-WSJ Op-ed


Thanks.

 

[SinoIndusFriendship]

"Yet, who is it whose discriminating against the Muslims..."

Go ask a chinese uighar for your answer.

"...and Chinese and Vietnamese and Africans and Arabs and Natives???"

All of which live happily in America, to include muslims. By choice. They chose to live in America. How many caucasians are immigrating to the PRC for all that socialist equality and prosperity?

Proof is before your eyes when people vote with their feet...

Thanks.

Millions of people are "voting" by going to China, VN, Asia, South America, Mexico, etc.... oops, they are going for the "Sex Tourism".

Is that how you vote also? By the way there are ten+ of millions of foreigners in Asia alone, not to mention who slew of expats in Middle East, Africa and South America. Let's not forget this "land" is not really yours, unless you don't believe in land ownership.

 

[All-Green]

So it is entirely of no consequence that one way or another drone strikes are turning people against government?
Is it a strategy written in stone that we cannot change it or does local support not matter anymore?
Pros and cons should be reassessed based on the fact that currently PA enjoys massive support in its operations and is dealing decisive blows...

Drone strikes on their own cannot win a war...rather an army wins a war for the Army to succeed we have to make it popular.
When PA is taking decisive action then to have another allied entity take independent action in our airspace is not something we need because it really makes mockery of the sovereignty we want to project...actually this needs to be realized by the military strategists since this will backfire (without tribal support) even if genuine threats are being eliminated.

I am in favor of attacks on the Mehsud #1 and #2 but i would rather have such attacks being directed by Pakistani drones for the key factor of sovereignty projection which is something we are not addressing and it is being exploited cleverly by the terrorists very cleverly and cannot be entirely canceled out without using Pakistani drones.

We need tribal support here, the lack of which caused the botched up operations in the past and the presence of which has made Pakistan Army successful...if this support is turned away then there is no hope for success.
Any approach should be mindful of this key factor.

For a tribal elder sitting in FATA he can defend his own nation's drones killing the guilty (even if drones are being used with help of USA), but a foreign country constantly interfering and choosing targets in his territory cannot be really defended by him and thus many elders will become unpopular in front of relentless anti US campaign of the militants...already many such elders have been eliminated by hits of TTP and Al Qaeda...we have to make them strong not weak and unpopular...

Who is handling the drone strikes?
That is what matters to at least those in Pakistan...they will 100% support their own Army if it does the same...because they know that all other avenues would have been exhausted and care would have been taken to save as much civilians as possible...why?
Because it is Pakistan's Army and despite all nonsense we hear...its soldiers do take all the extra risks to save as many of their innocent countrymen as possible, we cannot expect this from any other country because that would not be a realistic expectation.

 

[S-2]

"Millions of people are "voting" by going to China, VN, Asia, South America, Mexico, etc.... oops, they are going for the "Sex Tourism".

Is that how you vote also? By the way there are ten+ of millions of foreigners in Asia alone, not to mention who slew of expats in Middle East, Africa and South America..."

Your content has become incoherant and illegible sir. If you can't show more resolute thought than displayed above, we'll be shortly done. That will be no loss to me as I find you polemical but absent tangible substance.

Let me ask you one question, if you don't mind? Care to speculate how much yen is remitted back to Pakistan by their citizens living and working in the PRC versus from America?

Remember, people vote with their feet on these issues. Hope you're up to the task of a little real scholarship. If not, it'll be hasta la vista for your sorry azz.

Thanks.

 

[Barrett]

I'm only guessing that PM's statement was about his reservations over the U.S policies so lets stick to the topic and the Yankee-Ching chong war can be settled somewhere else.

Thanks.

 

[S-2]

"When PA is taking decisive action then to have another allied entity take independent action in our airspace is not something we need because it really makes mockery of the sovereignty we want to project..."

You've taken action, sir, but let's not get ahead of the facts. DECISIVE action it is not from America's perspective. It is self-admittedly incremental from Pakistan's perspective. You've stated it's all you can do now to attack your most immediate threat.

Hardly DECISIVE. H. Mehsud sat yesterday in a village inside Sararogha district SWA. Your officials admitted hearing rumors of such. Then so too your military intelligence and ISI. Was there an SSG air assault on the location of your most notorious foe? Clearly that would have provided the boots on the ground to ascertain H. Mehsud's exact status and afforded the P.A. the type of victory you wish.

Didn't happen but we got the same info and tried to do something about it. Maybe we succeeded. Maybe not.

"For a tribal elder sitting in FATA he can defend his own nation's drones killing the guilty (even if drones are being used with help of USA), but a foreign country constantly interfering and choosing targets in his territory cannot be really defended by him and thus many elders will become unpopular in front of relentless anti US campaign of the militants..."

Ms. Taj disagrees with you and begs you to lift the brutality that these people have suffered for eight years. Mr. Husain seems to believe she possesses unique local credibility on this matter.

Your comments strike me as one who hasn't SERIOUSLY read and considered their thoughts. They, btw, mirror mine of some years here. I've LONG questioned the dubious claims of civilian deaths. I've long railed against the enslavement of the FATA tribes by these external and internal foes. I've long railed at the burden you place on America for your own sovereign duplicity.

You want PREDATOR. So does Abu Zolfiqar and others. I've no faith, though, that you'd use that asset to prosecute targets attacking Afghanistan. With PAF-marked PREDATOR you'd have no compelling reason to allow OUR PREDATORS into your skies and might likely decide you've all the assets necessary to fight YOUR enemies and all the PAF F-16s necessary to now defend your airspace.

What, All-Green, might America/ISAF and Afghanistan do to defend ourselves from Haqqani and Omar on your lands? Suffer another eight years awaiting your "maybe" attack upon them? Should we then send fighters to escort PREDATOR? ARCLIGHT strikes with B-52s. THAT, All-Green, just might give your tribals something to complain about.

Or simply continue to accept the daily pounding rendered on Afghans and ourselves from these beasts safely residing upon your lands?

Won't happen. We'll defend ourselves as we've every right AND obligation to do so.

Your government and military...nay, YOU lack the forthright courage to say,

"Yes. We made a mistake and allowed these men upon our lands at the expense of you, our citizens. We saw them as assets but are wrong in our objectives. We seek assistance from others to rid ourselves of them."

Please read the editorials and ruminate quietly on their content because there's serious truth in there. Ms. Taj goes too far in her claims. She uses absolutes like "all" too often. Nothing is absolute but her premises are valid and utterly rejected by a myopic anti-Americanism promoted by your own government at our expense.

That, sir, is duplicitous treachery made at our expense and as Senator Levin indicates, we've grown tired of your charade.

Thanks.