US attacks 5th time in a week! | PAF patrols Pak skies

[Neo]

I hope PAF keeps them out of the region now. US will not target any PAF aircraft or drone as it will be seen as a dirct act of war. Hot purchase doesn't include distruction of our airforce.

 

[muse]

Neo

If PAF cannot protect itself or Pakistan, is it worth having? The US has very limited number of F15 in Afg. And if the they take off the carrier and do not have permission ot enter Pak airspace and still do, then it's a act of aggression and these aircraft should not be allowed to land.

The US is engaged in a PR effort in US papers suggesting that it has approval for this and therefore can engage in this behaviour - well lets see if pakistan have anything to say about it.

They want this to show that at least they succeeded in Afg - truth is tey have failed there as well -- just recall, less than a month ago Iran was target -- where will it end, It must End and must end now, pakistan can help the US see sense by not allowing any further acts f aggression and punishing it's NA allies.

 

[dr.umer]

'Shots fired' as Pakistan army blocks US troops​

15 Sep 2008
1700 Hrs

Pakistani troops have opened fire as American soldiers were prevented from crossing the border from Afghanistan.

According to Pakistan's Geo News and Pak Watan, soldiers from Pakistani's army blocked US troops from entering Waziristan in an incident overnight.

No one was hurt in the confrontation as Pakistani soldiers shot into the air as US-led coalition helicopters attempted to ferry troops into the northern Pakistan region.

The incident, which took place near the village of Angoor Adda and also saw local tribesmen fire gunshots into the air, comes amid claims that US president George Bush authorised cross-border raids into Pakistani without the permission of Pakistani authorities.

Pakistan is still nominally a key ally in the US president's war on terror, but the resignation of Pervez Musharraf has left a vacuum his replacement as president – Asif Ali Zardari – is yet to fill.

 

[batmannow]

Well done!
Laaton ke bhoot baaton se nahi maantay.

Thats what i meant, my dear NEO sir, no way! a single congressmen can stop it. the dececion has been made & they are ready to deliver that.
we had to accept that fact and we got to get ready ourselvses.

we , should notbe listen the media statments , of our or the enemy's media groups, but we shouldbe looking on to the grounds, the real situation.
i guss, a war can be started by strong words, but it can'tbe stopped by the words.
belive it, they willbe doing more damage , to harm the creditablity of the armed forces of pakistan, this all has been in line because, according to plan which cia prepared for Benazir bhutto , this is the second part of a master plan , which was put in place again, scince ppp got the power .

 

[was]

US troops' attempt to enter inside Pakistan's territory foiled
Updated at: 1220 PST, Monday, September 15, 2008
US troops WANA: Pakistan Army and local tribes on Monday foiled an attempt of US troops to enter inside Pakistan’s territory through two American helicopters.

According to sources, US troops boarded on two helicopters were trying to enter onto Pakistan’s areas near Angoor Adda along Pak-Afghan border when local tribes and troops of Pakistan army resisted the move and opened fire, forcing US helicopters to return.

Sources said situation remains tense in the area while local tribals along with Pakistan army are also positioned to face any untoward situation.

Meanwhile, Pakistan’s authorities haven’t offically confirmed the incident.

US troops'' attempt to enter inside Pakistan''s territory foiled - GEO.tv

 

[dr.umer]

View attachment a7f844791ddabee1d1bff508788a8bb7.jpg

It is interesting to see how press has reported this incident.

For western viewers, western press has used the wording like "raid blocked" or "troops repelled" as it was their birth right to enter Pakistan. It definately reflects the policy of a particular newspaper, but to larger extent, policy of the Govt.

Now observe how Muslim press has reported it. "US made to run" and "Pak Jets scare US Planes" and that is the true reflection of opinion of people of Pakistan and Muslims around the world.

 

[Patriot]

Good work..We should block them.We're American ally not servants and most of the Americans think the world owe them something.

 

[batmannow]

I hope PAF keeps them out of the region now. US will not target any PAF aircraft or drone as it will be seen as a dirct act of war. Hot purchase doesn't include distruction of our airforce.

i, wish this would not happen, but PAF , should prepare for worst.
as, the situation is changing in the world quickly,this could be the best chance for our armed forces, to get back ! the losted support of the crazy (AWAM).
i am 1000% sure that ,USAF would be looking for the extensive missions inside pakistani area, cause the only way ,ALLIED troops can launch any opreation inside pakistan, is of the airpower or(AIRCOVER) from USAF,without airsupport ALLIES TROOPS could be grilled and willbe eaten as a barb que.

PAF just have to make it sure, that what ever the target they engage in the air, should fall in pak area, so that it canbe showen in the world media. i guss, it will make great impact. but most important thing is our air defences in the fata, we should work it out in the week in comming.
there are unconformed reports of the more intense raids by the allies in the comming week, so we should have some, SOF units prepared for the wellcome of our ALLIES.

 

[batmannow]

Pakistan Says U.S. Copters Repulsed
By REUTERS
Published: September 15, 2008
Filed at 7:49 a.m. ET


ISLAMABAD (Reuters) - Firing by Pakistani troops forced two U.S. military helicopters to turn back to Afghanistan after they crossed into Pakistani territory early on Monday, Pakistani security officials said.

The incident took place near Angor Adda, a village in the tribal region of South Waziristan where U.S. commandos in helicopters raided a suspected al Qaeda and Taliban camp earlier this month.
"The U.S. choppers came into Pakistan by just 100 to 150 meters at Angor Adda. Even then our troops did not spare them, opened fire on them and they turned away," said one security official.[/I]
The U.S. and Pakistani military both denied that account, but Angor Adda villagers and officials supported it.
Pakistan is a crucial U.S. ally in its war on terrorism, and its support is key to the success of Western forces trying to stabilize Afghanistan. But Washington has become impatient over Islamabad's response to the threat from al Qaeda and Taliban fighters in Pakistan's tribal regions on the border.

At least 20 people, including women and children, were killed in the South Waziristan raid earlier this month, sparking outrage in Pakistan and prompting a diplomatic protest.

Pakistani army chief General Ashfaq Kayani said in a strongly worded statement last week that Pakistan would not allow foreign troops onto its soil and Pakistan's sovereignty and territorial integrity would be defended at all costs.
Another security official said on Monday that U.S. armored vehicles were also seen moving on the Afghan side of the border, while U.S. warplanes were seen overhead.

He said Pakistani soldiers sounded a bugle call and fired in the air, forcing the helicopters to return to Afghan territory.
CONFLICTING VERSIONS

Military spokesman Major Murad Khan confirmed that there had been shooting. But he said the American helicopters had not crossed into Pakistani airspace and Pakistani troops were not responsible for the firing.

"The U.S. choppers were there at the border, but they did not violate our airspace," Khan said.

"We confirm that there was a firing incident at the time when the helicopters were there, but our forces were not involved."

A spokesman for the U.S. military at Bagram Airbase, north of Kabul, said its forces had not reported any such incident.

"The unit in the area belongs to the (U.S.-led) coalition. They are not reporting any such incident," the U.S. military spokesman said.

But the official denials were contradicted by Pakistani civilian officials and villagers in Angor Adda.

One official told Reuters by telephone that "the troops stationed at BP-27 post fired at the choppers and they turned away."

Two Chinook helicopters appeared set to land when troops began shooting, alerting tribesmen who also opened fire on the intruders, said a senior government official in Peshawar, the capital of North West Frontier Province.

A resident described the tension in the village through the night. "We saw helicopters flying all over the area. We stayed awake the whole night after the incident," he said.

The fiercely independent tribesmen of the region carry weapons regardless of whether they are militants.

PAKISTAN ARMY FIGHTING MILITANTS

The New York Times newspaper reported last week that U.S. President George W. Bush has given clearance for U.S. raids across the border.

The raid on Angor Adda on September 3 was the first overt ground incursion by U.S. troops into Pakistan since the deployment of U.S. forces in Afghanistan in late 2001.

The United States has intensified attacks by missile-firing drone aircraft on suspected al Qaeda and Taliban targets in Pakistani tribal lands in the past few weeks.

Despite apparent U.S. frustration with Pakistan, the Pakistani army has been involved in fierce fighting with Islamist militants in Bajaur, another tribal region, and Swat, a valley in North West Frontier Province, close to the tribal lands.

Pakistani forces, using helicopter gunships and artillery, killed at least 16 fighters and wounded 25 in Bajaur on Sunday. More than 750 militants have been killed in an offensive there that began in late August.

The U.S. pressure comes at an awkward time for President Asif Ali Zardari, the widower of assassinated former prime minister Benazir Bhutto. Zardari was elected on September 6, having forced former army chief Pervez Musharraf to quit last month, almost nine years after Musharraf took power in a coup.

The new Pakistani president is in London and due to meet Prime Minister Gordon Brown to talk over the border situation.

Bush held a video conference with Brown last week to discuss a new strategy for the lawless Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier.

Zardari and Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani have both endorsed the stand taken by General Kayani.
(Additional reporting by Alamgir Bitani; Writing by Simon Cameron-Moore; Editing by Paul Tait)

 

[PakWatan]

americans sitting accross the border in afghanistan will literally be sitting ducks if they attack us , we can cause massive casualties in matters of few hours that they'll be scrambling to re-man their posts which the afghan resitance fighters will be quick to claim.

5-10 dead US soildiers are condiered a 'lot' so mutiply that by 10 in one day and I bet you, yanky yellow matter will be everywhere

When they attacked Iraq they surveyed the whole place , made sure Iraq has no offensive capability , moved in their own time to place their assets , set up their supply line ( inclusing supply of glucose biscuits for their troops heheh ) and EVEN then seven years on they are still struggling .

This theatre is different, we have enough conventional capability to line up the border wiht dead US soldiers in very little time.

Up untill now they havent really been in close proximity of an adversary that can cause serious damge on troop concentrations, well we can and to our advantage their troops in Afghanistan are comfortably in our strike range

With years of preprations for a potetial fight with bhnidia , our army and airforce are better prepared to fight a foe that is easily identifiable.

So just bring it! Thats what I would tell these yanky loosers.

Plus we also have our 'trump card' , so if push comes to shove we can always use that.

 

[Neo]

Winning a losing game​

Analysis: Rasul Bakhsh Rais

American raids inside Pakistan will only play into the hands of Taliban and Al Qaeda sympathisers and place the Pakistan army in a nutcracker situation. This cannot be a winnable strategy in the war against terrorism?

Admiral Mike Mullen has made this frank evaluation after almost seven years of unending, no-holds-barred, brutal war in Afghanistan: “I’m not convinced we are winning it [the war] in Afghanistan”. But to revive hopes and lift the morale of his country’s political leadership and his troops, he added, “I am convinced that we can”.

How? Some reflection on what are emerging as the contours of his war-winning strategy is in order.

Historically, Afghanistan has been a graveyard of foreign armies. It will be a first in history if the Americans, a foreign power, are able to subdue the Afghans and impose their brand of nationalism, statehood and political leadership on them. It is a hazardous and ambitious task.

Perhaps the American strategist derives his optimism from the changed times and calculus of regional and global power. But on previous occasions, when the other two great powers invaded Afghanistan, the operational environment was not the same.

The myths, traditions and heroic folklore of Afghan history remain the same, no matter who the new friends and invaders are, or however noble their mission might appear to themselves. The current power imbalance in Afghanistan has perhaps not been witnessed anywhere in the world at any time: a superpower equipped with the most destructive military technology looking to ‘right the wrongs’ versus the insurgents in the Pashtun regions of Afghanistan.

I have deliberately avoided mentioning the Taliban, because the label is a narrow and unreal characterisation of the ethos that has shaped the insurgency in the Pashtun-dominated regions of Afghanistan. ‘Taliban’ is a convenient term, and makes the adversary identifiable, portraying him as anti-everything that stands for civilised and humane notions of social organisation. The portrayal is not entirely untrue in view of the conduct of the Taliban in the border regions of Pakistan or in Afghanistan during their regime.

But that is not the point. What I want to suggest is that the Taliban couldn’t operate on the Pakistani or Afghan side of the border without a significant degree of support from the Pashtun population. It is good propaganda to say that the population has been taken hostage, but a concrete analysis of the situation must take into account the sympathies of the locals in areas where insurgents operate and seek sustenance.

If the battle for hearts and minds in Afghanistan’s Pashtun areas has not entirely been lost, it has been messed up big time. Many observers of Afghanistan, both journalists and scholars, have for a long time argued that American strategy in Afghanistan has been badly handled from the very beginning. Three things stand out very clearly.

First, the Afghan-Americans in high advisory and ambassadorial roles played traditional Afghan factional politics in smoothing the way for Hamid Karzai and the shift of power to the Northern Alliance, as if they and not the American forces had dislodged the Taliban. Instead of seeking national reconciliation, the new power group went for the politics of vengeance. Yes, Pashtuns were present in the corridors of power, but in small numbers and on the margins.

Since the parliamentary elections, things have improved for the Pashtuns. But the residual resentment has continued to fuel unease. There is an almost unanimous view that Hamid Karzai has delivered very little on governance, and state- and nation-building.

The second important reason for unrest in the Pashtun regions is that development assistance has been too little and arrived too late. This failure has turned Afghanistan into a narco-state. Even if a small share of the billions that opium production and trade generate ends up in Taliban hands — which it does — it would be enough to keep ISAF and NATO forces tied down for decades.

Finally, the insensitivity to civilian casualties has taken a heavy toll on the American image in Afghanistan. NATO forces entered Afghanistan amid the deafening thunder of strategic bombing and daisycutters, and declared that their mission was to free Afghanistan from the scourge of the Taliban and rebuild the Afghan state and nation. At least in the Pashtun parts of Afghanistan, this mission is now seen very differently.

There is no greater loss in war than losing the sympathy and support of the people you think you are helping. When they see your presence in adversarial terms, it means more than half the battle has been lost.

This is the dilemma the Americans and the international community face in Afghanistan. There is definitely great distress and war fatigue among the American political and military ranks, with acknowledgement of the bitter truth that the war on terror has not gone right. But getting it back on the right track would require a better grasp of the complex region they have landed in, by fate or misfortune, or under illusion of a grand strategic design.

Extending the war effort to the tribal areas of Pakistan is not a great idea. At best, it will destroy Taliban and Al Qaeda hideouts, keep them on the run and cut their control and communication lines. It is uncertain if these missions can be accomplished without too much collateral damage and also without severely damaging the political standing of the new Pakistani government and the public prestige of the armed forces of Pakistan.

Pakistan has done a better job of destroying Al Qaeda in the region than the United States and Afghanistan or other allies. As stated in the Daily Times editorial of last Saturday (“US Strategy: excessive and unnecessary”, September 13), 90 percent of Al Qaeda arrests have been made by Pakistani intelligence and security forces. Pakistani state and society have clearly drawn the battle lines against Al Qaeda and the Taliban and fought with greater resolve than any other country.

American raids inside Pakistan will only play into the hands of Taliban and Al Qaeda sympathisers and place the Pakistan army in a nutcracker situation. This cannot be a winnable strategy in the war against terrorism.

The war against terror is also our war. We have been the first line of defence for the world — has anybody counted the victims of suicide bombing in Pakistan, or the number of our brave troops slaughtered by terrorists? This war is going to be long and difficult but we all have a stake in winning it. It will require patience, better understanding of the complexities of the region, and the respect and trust of partners like Pakistan. All else will be only a strategy of defeat.

Dr Rasul Bakhsh Rais is author of Recovering the Frontier State: War, Ethnicity and State in Afghanistan (Lanham, Maryland: Lexington Books 2008) and a professor of Political Science at the Lahore University of Management Sciences. He can be reached at rasul@lums.edu.pk

 

[ejaz007]

Nothing can stop army from defending Pakistan: COAS

RAWALPINDI: Nothing can stop the army from defending Pakistan, Chief of Army Staff (COAS) General Ashfaq Kayani said on Monday.

He was making an informal address to soldiers during a visit to forward posts on the Line of Control and the Line of Actual Contact with India in the Northern Areas.

“No odds [can] deter [the army] from pursuing its obligations towards national defence,” Kayani said.

He said the Pakistani nation honoured its army and “this national support is crucial in synergising a national effort”. Gen Kayani met troops on duty at Siachen, the world’s highest battlefield.

He said there was a national consensus on the Kashmir issue in Pakistan. staff report

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

 

[maqsad]

From BBC:

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Pakistan soldiers 'confront US'

A Pakistani military spokesman in Islamabad confirmed that there was firing but denied that Pakistani troops were involved.

So either the FC troops themselves have still been ordered to stand down or they just did not get a chance to do the intercept and were beaten to it by tribals. Or this spokesman is hiding the truth?

 

[muse]

US foray into SWA repelled

Tuesday, September 16, 2008
Pak troops, tribesmen retaliate; military spokesman, Pentagon deny airspace violation, firing at copters; Islamabad to halt oil supply to Nato in case of attack

By Irfan Burki & Mushtaq Yusufzai

WANA/PESHAWAR: Backed by the Wazir tribesmen, security forces early Monday foiled a reported attempt by US forces to enter Pakistani territory near South Waziristan Agency (SWA), forcing them to retreat towards their base camp in Afghanistan’s Paktika province.

Pakistan Army spokesman Major General Athar Abbas when reached by telephone, however, denied any such incident on the border with Afghanistan. Abbas said neither the US forces had committed any violation of the Pakistani border nor did the security forces or local tribesmen take any action against them.

Official and tribal sources from Angoor Adda - a border town between Pakistan and Afghanistan’s Paktika province — told The News that two helicopters dropped several US troops at around 1am on Monday on the Afghan side of the border near Saway Waray area of Angoor Adda.

They said the troops then started moving towards the Pakistani border villages while a gunship helicopter was flying over them apparently providing them air cover.The Wazir tribesmen have already formed a Lashkar (armed force) to stop Taliban militants from using their soil for attacks on the US-led Nato forces in Paktika province of Afghanistan and foreign troops from entering the Pakistan tribal region.

Residents said around 400 armed tribesmen were manning areas of SWA when the venture was being made from across the border. Some reports said the Wazir tribesmen first fired shots in the air to scare away the American troops so that they do not enter Pakistan, while residents said personnel of the paramilitary South Waziristan Scouts (SWS), a wing of the Frontier Corps (FC) deployed at Zeba post near the border, also opened fire.

They said the Army soldiers deployed at Saway Waray post close to the border followed suit by starting aerial firing, followed by heavy firing by the already enraged and emotional Wazir tribesmen in Angoor Adda bazaar and adjoining villages.

Also, some reports said announcements were made from loudspeakers of mosques, asking the tribesmen to pick up arms as the US forces had arrived to attack the border villages.Sources said aerial firing in the border land continued for almost half an hour, scaring and prompting the US forces to retreat towards Machadaat military camp in Afghanistan’s Paktika province.

The residents said US forces did not retaliate and returned to their military base in Afghanistan. It merits a mention here that it was the same place where special forces of the US crossed into Pakistani territory on September 3 and carried out first-ever ground operation, killing 17 tribesmen, including women and children. The forces had been dropped by two choppers inside Pakistani village of Musa Neeke.

After the latest development at the border, Taliban militants led by pro-government militant commander Maulvi Nazeer held an emergency session with representatives of 45-member Ahmedzai Wazir tribal Jirga, in which the Jirga members discussed their recent meeting with NWFP Governor Owais Ahmad Ghani in Peshawar.

The Ahmadzai Wazir tribal Jirga had warned of scraping their peace deal with the government if violation of Pakistan’s airspace by the CIA-operated Unmanned Air Vehicles (UAVs) or Predators and firing of Hellfire missiles on the Wazirs inhabited areas continued.

Both the Ahmadzai Wazir tribal elders and tribal militants vowed to raise their own tribal force for safeguarding their border with Afghanistan. To this end, the Jirga and militants agreed to hold another meeting on Wednesday in Wana.

AFP adds: The incident happened about 100 metres from South Waziristan on the Afghan side of the border, but there were no casualties. “The US-led coalition troops in helicopters came close to the border and they tried to enter into Pakistan territory but shots were fired by Pakistani troops and the coalition troops retreated,” a security official said.

An unnamed Pakistani army spokesman confirmed an incident took place but denied its involvement. “There was firing but our troops were not involved,” he told AFP. “Firing was heard but there was no violation of Pakistan territory,” he said. A second security official based in the area said that local tribesmen joined in the firing after Pakistani soldiers played bugles to alert local people to the threat of an incursion.

Reuters adds: Firing by Pakistani troops forced the two US military helicopters to turn back to Afghanistan after they crossed into Pakistani territory early on Monday, Pakistani security officials said.

“The US choppers came into Pakistan by just 100 to 150 metres at Angoor Adda. Even then our troops did not spare them, opened fire on them and they turned away,” said one security official.

The US and Pakistani military both denied that account, but Angoor Adda villagers and officials supported it.Another security official said on Monday that US armoured vehicles were also seen moving on the Afghan side of the border, while US warplanes were seen overhead.

He said Pakistani soldiers sounded a bugle call and fired in the air, forcing the helicopters to return to Afghan territory.Military spokesman Major Murad Khan confirmed that there had been shooting. But he said the American helicopters had not crossed into Pakistani airspace and Pakistani troops were not responsible for the firing.

“The US choppers were there at the border, but they did not violate our airspace,” Khan said. “We confirm that there was a firing incident at the time when the helicopters were there, but our forces were not involved.”

A spokesman for the US military at Bagram Airbase, north of Kabul, said its forces had not reported any such incident. “The unit in the area belongs to the (US-led) coalition. They are not reporting any such incident,” the US military spokesman said.

But the official denials were contradicted by Pakistani civilian officials and villagers in Angoor Adda. One official told Reuters by telephone that “the troops stationed at BP-27 post fired at the choppers and they turned away”.

Two Chinook helicopters appeared set to land when troops began shooting, alerting tribesmen who also opened fire on the intruders, said a senior government official in Peshawar. A resident described the tension in the village through the night. “We saw helicopters flying all over the area. We stayed awake the whole night after the incident,” he said.

In Washington, the Pentagon also denied reports that Pakistani troops fired on two US military helicopters. “I’ve checked into that and find it to be a spurious report,” Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told reporters.

“Did not happen. I’ve checked all the places that would know about something like that and it doesn’t appear to be accurate.” Whitman was speaking after Pakistani security officials said US helicopters were fired upon near Angoor Adda, in South Waziristan.

“(I) cannot find any mission that correlates to the report I saw out of Pakistan. I can’t find any (military) report of helicopters being fired upon,” Whitman said.

Online adds: Pakistan in unequivocal terms has said that it would halt supply of oil and other commodities to Nato in Afghanistan if the US troops continued to violate the country’s border.

A private TV channel quoting government and defence sources said Pakistan would also hold fresh talks on agreement struck between former President Pervez Musharraf and US President George W Bush with regard to logistic support to US in the war against terrorism.

The United States would be informed strictly that Pakistan would halt supply of oil, edible items, weapons and other commodities to Afghanistan-based US-led allied forces if US troops continued to violate the country’s border.

According to information, more than 400 containers carrying commodities for Afghanistan-based US and allied forces pass from Torkham and Chaman into Afghanistan. The sources further said that debate on the issue would also be held in parliament.

 

[PakWatan]

That report sums the up the incident nicely

On WAB, some internet resident military 'professional' was saying that that there is some sort of 'agreement' between the US and Pak that such acts will be 'staged' ( and as usual the indians are joining in this corus )

Question to these internet resident military 'professionals' should be since when has the US started caring about perceptions in Pakistan that it will go to such great lengths as to allow it self to be chased out of Pak territory ? Thats pure balony!

Its a case of what they call in Urdu 'Khasiani Billi Khamba Nochay'.

These American rats were fired up by our forces , they ran away like the cowards that they are and their officials are now denying this incident.

If any thing this should tell us how sacred the Americans are of what will make them look weak!

this is good point to know since in the case of opening up hostilities between Pak and US we just need to make sure that there are plenty of dead Us soldiers on display , and this War will be over in no time , No need to go nuclear or any thing of that sort.