US asks Pakistan to stop the groups that carry out terrorism in India

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Not as a first stage, no. More on that later. Furthermore, I think the fact that soldiers who deliberately shed their uniforms and deny their affiliation to engage in a battle campaign against the enemy is enough to classify them as terrorists.

They were foreign infiltrators so they can't be classed as insurgents.

Not as a second or third or any other stage either.

And no, merely shedding a uniform is not enough to classify an entity as 'terrorist' - if not local, the term infiltrator would apply, and in this case the infiltration was into disputed territory, not sovereign Indian territory.

The definition of the term terrorism, as generally accepted, remains restricted to deliberate attacks against civilians, otherwise one could also argue that US (or any other nations) special forces or 'spies' operating undercover outside the US are 'terrorists'.

But since no acts of 'terror' (attacks against civilians) were perpetrated or planned by the infiltrators, classifying the infiltration as terrorism is not yet a position you can justify.

It does not appear to me, reading the diplomatic record, that Pakistani leaders were concerned with liberating Kashmiris per se as much as they were interested in embarking on a campaign of conquest with Kashmir as an excuse. Bhutto did not want to withdraw Pakistani forces (including infiltrators) just so the Kashmiris could vote; he wanted the infiltrators to remain and seize control. Then the way would be clear for the infiltrators to terrorize the populace into voting for Pakistan.

After that, why wouldn't a new border war would ensue, and the process repeated, ad infinitum? After all, Bhutto said Pakistan would keep fighting as long as the U.S. kept supplying it with arms.

What it 'appears' to you, is nothing but speculation and myth making. If you have any concrete statements by Bhutto or the military leadership of the absurd motives you assign them, please present them to substantiate your view, otherwise the comments by you above are nothing by Pakistan bashing distortions of history and crude speculation.

That said, there are plenty of statements from the Indian political leadership declaring their unilateral intent to withdraw from the UNSC resolutions and renege on the promise of plebiscite, accepted both under the rules of Accession of Princely States and the UNSC resolutions, which makes India quite clearly an occupier and an entity that has violated the rights of millions of Kashmiris.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The FRUS record makes it clear that Pakistani leaders wanted the infiltrators to remain. That essentially would have yielded the occupied areas to Pakistani control. That implies Bhutto and Ayub had absolutely no confidence the Kashmiris would vote for Pakistan rather than independence, or they would have agreed to withdraw the infiltrators.

How do you think Bhutto and Ayub would have guaranteed a U.N.-run but Pakistan-favorable vote, if not through terror?

Had the infiltrators remained the territory they remained in would not have been 'yielded to Pakistani control' without the Pakistani military taking over control. Insurgents/infiltrators would not have the capability to hold off a professional military (IA) in attempting to hold on to the territory, or for that matter 'push out' the IA from the territory into which they were infiltrated - both those actions (defeat of the IA and holding the territory) could only be accomplished through a full fledged military action by the PA. That would mean that a professional Army would be in charge, not the insurgents, which is no different a position, in disputed territory, than the IA being in charge. So if the argument is to be made that the PA would have 'terrorized the population' to ensure a vote in favor of Pakistan, then the same argument applies to the presence of the IA for all these decades - terrorizing millions of Kashmiris in order to subjugate them. And on the latter count we do have plenty of studies from Amnesty and other HZR organizations claiming tens of thousands massacred, raped and tortured by the Indian Security Forces.

So while your argument of 'infiltrators terrorizing the IaK populace to vote for Pakistan' is nothing but speculation, there is plenty of evidence that Indian security forces have 'terrorized' the local populace to subjugate them and ensure Indian control.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

They were from Pakistan.

It is indeed important to point out that this is not fact, but extrapolation through reasoning.

The FRUS record makes it clear that Pakistani leaders wanted the infiltrators to remain. That essentially would have yielded the occupied areas to Pakistani control. That implies Bhutto and Ayub had absolutely no confidence the Kashmiris would vote for Pakistan rather than independence, or they would have agreed to withdraw the infiltrators.

How do you think Bhutto and Ayub would have guaranteed a U.N.-run but Pakistan-favorable vote, if not through terror?

Firstly the people of Kashmir rebelled because they were forcefully linked with India in an unjust Partition. They are fighting for a cause which is " liberation of Kashmir " Pakistan provided them the moral support needed and will continue to . This is an established reality , there are no ifs and buts. Kashmir dispute still remains the thorn btw the two countries.
As long as Kashmir dispute remains , the proxies btw India and Pakistan cannot end . India being a bigger country must play a greater role in this regard as it has much more to loose than to gain.

 

[ramu]

Firstly the people of Kashmir rebelled because they were forcefully linked with India in an unjust Partition. They are fighting for a cause which is " liberation of Kashmir " Pakistan provided them the moral support needed and will continue to . This is an established reality , there are no ifs and buts. Kashmir dispute still remains the thorn btw the two countries.
As long as Kashmir dispute remains , the proxies btw India and Pakistan cannot end . India being a bigger country must play a greater role in this regard as it has much more to loose than to gain.

Keep repeating that till Pakistan supports terror as a state policy. At this rate the fanaticism fanned by the support to violent groups will implode Pakistan and result in anarchy.

 

[PakSher]

US should also make a request to Afghanistan and India for stop doing terrorism in Pakistan.

 

[PakSher]

Keep repeating that till Pakistan supports terror as a state policy. At this rate the fanaticism fanned by the support to violent groups will implode Pakistan and result in anarchy.

Anarchy is on it way in the shape of your PAPA Mr. Moaist. Uncle Naxalite. Step brother Kahmiri Mujahadeen. it will all add and catch up to India.

 

[nForce]

US need to develop understanding of Jehad , In Kashmir Jehad is continued not terrorism.

u know what?? this particular romanticism of some people with Jehad has landed ur country in nothing but trouble only...Government of Pakistan employed terrorism as a state policy against India long time back.It started basically during the rule of Zia-ul-Haq.Things went out of hands pretty soon,and now there are about 20 million arms in the hands of these extremists in Pakistan,with nobody to control anything.Now the total population of Pakistan is around 160 million.That makes it about 1 gun per 8 person in Pakistan.

Terrorist attacks in Pakistan::

1. in 2006:657 terrorist attacks, including 41 of a sectarian nature, took place, leaving 907 people dead and 1,543 others injured according to Pak Institute for Peace Studies.

2.In 2007, 1,503 terrorist attacks and clashes, including all the suicide attacks, target killings and assassinations, resulted in 3,448 casualties and 5,353 injuries, according to the PIPS security report.

3,In 2008, the country saw 2,148 terrorist attacks, which caused 2,267 fatalities and 4,558 injuries.

4.In 2009, the worst of any year, 2,586 terrorist, insurgent and sectarian-related incidents were reported that killed 3,021 people and injured 7,334, according to the "Pakistan Security Report 2009"

ull notice that the figures are going up....and still u passively support terrorism in Kashmir while crying foul for the same in Pakistan???What kinda hypocrisy is this???