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US Arms Sales are propping up Pakistan as a Regional Challenger

Yes, with 18 we feel content, with 126 you still jittery.

Hope that's cured your cough.

Its not question of content or jittery, if you are serious about discussion we can talk.
You will always try to contain your enemy as much as you can, India is trying to do just that. Let me ask you something, lets say (hypothetically) tomorrow India wants to buy JF17 in 10 number from China, will Pakistan not try to block it? Does that mean 10 JF17 will be threat to Pakistan.

Also why does Pakistan tries to block India's entry in IOC?

Every country tries to use its influence to counter other, simple as that.
 
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Rightly said.

It amuses me when Indians express concern over even small purchases by Pakistan specially when India is getting advance weapons from everyone

Janaji, this is media. They sensationalize the news to increase viewership, in return more revenues earned.
I am happy to see Pakistani media also becoming free and competitive, see how the number of Pakistani news channels have increased.
Gone are the days of PTV and DD:cool:
 
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Janaji, this is media. They sensationalize the news to increase viewership, in return more revenues earned.
I am happy to see Pakistani media also becoming free and competitive, see how the number of Pakistani news channels have increased.
Gone are the days of PTV and DD:cool:
But our news channel dont include "10 kadam Pakistan Khatam" type news.
 
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Its not question of content or jittery, if you are serious about discussion we can talk.
You will always try to contain your enemy as much as you can, India is trying to do just that. Let me ask you something, lets say (hypothetically) tomorrow India wants to buy JF17 in 10 number from China, will Pakistan not try to block it? Does that mean 10 JF17 will be threat to Pakistan.

Also why does Pakistan tries to block India's entry in IOC?

Every country tries to use its influence to counter other, simple as that.
why would we block it. We'll get 50 % of profit.
 
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Janaji, this is media. They sensationalize the news to increase viewership, in return more revenues earned.
I am happy to see Pakistani media also becoming free and competitive, see how the number of Pakistani news channels have increased.
Gone are the days of PTV and DD:cool:

Pakistani media is perhapes the only one which had struggled for its freedom and which is far more free than even the western ones where their policies are influenced by govt agendas based on their foreign policy.


Our media is far more neutral and free than your Indian media.

So i dont see that our media is competeing with Indian one as Indian media is still the nationalistic
 
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Pakistani media is perhapes the only one which had struggled for its freedom and which is far more free than even the western ones where their policies are influenced by govt agendas based on their foreign policy.


Our media is far more neutral and free than your Indian media.

So i dont see that our media is competeing with Indian one as Indian media is still the nationalistic


OMG OMG, don't know how to laugh.All of you Pakistanis have just one obsession, INDIA. Your minds have really been poisoned against India beyond cure, or is it that you are being paid for your tirades??

Any way one clarification for you dear Janaji,
I never meant to compare Indian media with Pakistani, nor was I saying that your media is competing with Indian media.
They are free so competing with one another, and that's why their viewership has also increased. How they present the news that they decide.
 
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There is a difference for 126 MRCA and 18 F-16 Cough Cough

Hard cash and Aid to fight militants Cough cough.

Last time i read the article and heard the new it was something called PAID or BOUGHT.Where is the AID Factor?
Coug cough.....slum dogs...cough cough
 
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Also why does Pakistan tries to block India's entry in IOC?.

Is india a muslim country?
Has india applied for observer status?
Has india solved Kashmir issue?That the Imam Kaba declared Fair jihad against occupation?
The indian journalist who wrote the article ate alot of spicy indian curry and is crapin like always....Indian mentality
 
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Its not question of content or jittery, if you are serious about discussion we can talk.
You will always try to contain your enemy as much as you can, India is trying to do just that. Let me ask you something, lets say (hypothetically) tomorrow India wants to buy JF17 in 10 number from China, will Pakistan not try to block it? Does that mean 10 JF17 will be threat to Pakistan.

Also why does Pakistan tries to block India's entry in IOC?

Every country tries to use its influence to counter other, simple as that.
Since the article goes back in history, why not start from independence when the airforce was British orientated, after becoming a member of SEATO and CENTO treaties, Pakistan started receiving American equipments but an embargo followed the 1965 war hence Pakistan turned to China and France for the F-6 and Mirage aircrafts respectively. As the US embargo remained enforced these aircrafts proved saving grace for the PAF. It was only after the Soviet's invasion of Afghanistan, the Americans were there as they needed us. In contrast supply of Russian Arms remained unhindered with even production facilities provided to India, yet it still went for further shopping to Britain and France without so much as a twitch from Pakistan. It is said that back in the 80s, when America agreed to sell F-16s to Pakistan, Indra Gandhi (RIP) went through the roof and virtually declared a war of words with America. Buddy it's habitual for India to show it's credentials as a drama queen. It only goes to prove that empty pots make more noise.:cheers:
 
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There is a difference for 126 MRCA and 18 F-16 Cough Cough

Hard cash and Aid to fight militants Cough cough.

i guess Training the Terrorist against pakistan By Indians backfired:azn: it must hurt

I wonder how much of hard cash indians been spending on Terrorist or shell we call it Aid cough cough.

What makes me even laugh about all this is Indians pay billions to israel for the weapons israel get for free from USA and rest of the world.
 
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Since the article goes back in history, why not start from independence when the airforce was British orientated, after becoming a member of SEATO and CENTO treaties, Pakistan started receiving American equipments but an embargo followed the 1965 war hence Pakistan turned to China and France for the F-6 and Mirage aircrafts respectively. As the US embargo remained enforced these aircrafts proved saving grace for the PAF. It was only after the Soviet's invasion of Afghanistan, the Americans were there as they needed us. In contrast supply of Russian Arms remained unhindered with even production facilities provided to India, yet it still went for further shopping to Britain and France without so much as a twitch from Pakistan. It is said that back in the 80s, when America agreed to sell F-16s to Pakistan, Indra Gandhi (RIP) went through the roof and virtually declared a war of words with America. Buddy it's habitual for India to show it's credentials as a drama queen. It only goes to prove that empty pots make more noise.:cheers:

Whatever you call it drama or whatever. As per India is concerned, if it manages to get something out of this drama it is worth it.
If India crying helps it achieve what it wants then there is nothing wrong in it. Every country uses it leverage with other in such matter, so does Pakistan in IOC, why does Pakistan forces other members of IOC not to accept it as a member, why does it not allow a voting instead.
 
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:cry: :cry:


US is selling arms to Pakistan......:cry: :cry:


only 18 F 16 and few Artillery and the propaganda begins. Cant they see there own arm acquisition. I wonder what news will be on NDTV and Times now.

Pakistan ko mil gaye hain hathiyaar....Ho ga kaise abb un hathiyaaro ka istimaal.



sahi bola......wanted to thank u but cant since am using a proxy server


[/QUOTE=mjnaushad;705751]
 
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Whatever you call it drama or whatever. As per India is concerned, if it manages to get something out of this drama it is worth it.
If India crying helps it achieve what it wants then there is nothing wrong in it. Every country uses it leverage with other in such matter, so does Pakistan in IOC, why does Pakistan forces other members of IOC not to accept it as a member, why does it not allow a voting instead.
My dear, using leverage and crying are two opposite ends.
Pakistan indeed uses it's leverage on the IOC, but as you put it, India resorts to to crying and tantrums, well any one will tell you that doesn't go too well with image when you dream of becoming a regional power.:disagree:
 
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Gurmeet Kanwal

February 11, 2010

The American ambassador in Islamabad has said that the US Defence Department is considering the sale of 12 unarmed drones to Pakistan to encourage it to cooperate in the war on terror. It is not beyond Pakistan’s technological capability to arm these UAVs with air-to-ground missiles for use in conventional conflict.

A few months ago, Air Chief Marshal Rao Quamar Suleman, Chief of the Pakistan Air Force (PAF), had accepted the first F-16 Block 52 aircraft on behalf of his nation at the Lockheed Martin facility at Fort Worth, Texas. The remaining aircraft will be delivered in 2010. The total order, worth US$5.1 billion, is for 12 F-16Cs and six F-16Ds. When this transfer is completed, it will raise the total number of F-16s in service with the PAF to 54. The Pakistan Air Force received its first F-16, in the Block 15 F-16A/B configuration, in 1982.

Earlier, the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency had notified Congress of a Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan of 115 M109A5 155mm self-propelled howitzers as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised by Pakistan, could be as high as $56 million.

This is not the first time that the US has offered major arms packages to Pakistan, nor will it be the last. The United States had co-opted Pakistan as a frontline state in its fight against communism during the Cold War and armed it with Patton tanks, F-86 Sabre Jets and F-104 Starfighters, among other weapons and equipment. Despite strong US assurances, all of these were used against India. US-Pakistan cooperation was expanded further when the former Soviet Union occupied Afghanistan. In the 1980s, the CIA gave Pakistan huge quantities of weapons for the Afghan mujahideen. These included shoulder-fired Stinger surface-to-air missiles, some of which were recovered by the Indian Army from Pakistan’s terrorist mercenaries in Kashmir. However, as soon as the last Soviet tank left Afghan soil, the United States dropped Pakistan like a hot potato and slapped sanctions on it.

Post-September 11, the United States not only ignored Pakistan’s nuclear proliferation but also its emergence as the new hub of Islamist fundamentalist terrorism. It also tolerated General Musharraf’s dictatorial regime because it suited US national interests in the war against terrorism. The US designation of Pakistan as a Major Non-NATO Ally (MNNA) in March 2004 had irritated Indian policy planners because Indo-US relations had just begun to improve. The “next steps in strategic partnership” (NSSP) had been announced only in January 2004 and India was looking forward to a comprehensive engagement with the United States. The Indo-US strategic partnership is now on a firm footing, but developments such as the sale of major conventional arms to Pakistan run the risk of damaging the growing relationship.

The sale of conventional arms to Pakistan ostensibly to fight terrorism has been criticised even in the United States. A Congressional Research Service (CRS) report has questioned the sale: "It (the F-16 Block 52) incorporates advanced weapons and avionics for air-to-air combat that appear unnecessary for counterinsurgency operations. Less expensive and less sophisticated aircraft such as attack helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles, and combat search and rescue aircraft would appear to have greater utility in combating insurgents and other non-state actors than supersonic fighter aircraft." It is another matter that Pakistan has been actually using fighter aircraft to strike targets on ground in Swat and South Waziristan. These are tactics that are bound to generate a severe backlash against its armed forces, as has been witnessed in a spate of attacks against senior army personnel in Islamabad and Rawalpindi.

The United States justifies arms sales to Pakistan on several grounds. Besides the need to continue to retain Pakistan’s support in the hunt for al Qaeda and Taliban terrorists, the United States realises the fragility of the civilian regime in the face of Islamist hardliners in the army, the ISI and the country. It sees the Pakistan Army as a stabilising force in a country that is being gradually Islamised beyond redemption. The United States feels that it must do all that it can to keep the civilian regime in power. It is also deeply concerned about Pakistan’s nuclear weapons falling into jihadi hands if there is an Islamist coup. Hence, the United States feels inclined to offer some sops to satisfy Pakistan’s corps commanders at regular intervals. The sale of eight Orion maritime surveillance aircraft, the Phalanx gun systems and the 2000 TOW anti-tank-cum-bunker busting missiles falls in this category. Also, India and Pakistan are among the largest arms buyers in the world today and no US administration can neglect the military-industrial complex.

Though the sale of the Orion reconnaissance aircraft will make things relatively more difficult for the Indian Navy, they do not pose a direct new threat to India. The proposed sale indicates a US design to engage the Pakistan Navy in joint reconnaissance and patrolling of the sea lanes in the Gulf region by bolstering its capability while a similar exercise is being undertaken with the Indian Navy in the southern Bay of Bengal and the Malacca Straits. Clearly, the United States is planning to cooperate with the Indian Navy through its Honolulu-based Pacific Command and with the Pakistan Navy through its Central Command. Such an arrangement will also keep the Indian and Pakistan navies from having to launch joint operations and undertake search, seizure and rescue operations together.

If India wishes to influence US arms sales decisions, it must develop adequate leverages to make the United States reconsider the pros and cons very carefully. The supply of a new batch of F-16 aircraft to Pakistan will certainly enhance the strike capabilities of the PAF even though the Indian Air Force will still continue to enjoy both qualitative and quantitative superiority. India is justified in seeing the move to go ahead with the sale of the F-16s as an US attempt to balance its strategic partnership with India by once again propping up Pakistan as a regional challenger.
US Arms Sales are propping up Pakistan as a Regional Challenger | Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses


Bshit!!!
actually there was a very intresting news report in reply to this news item being aired by not so well know news channel. it was the Royal News (of Pakistan) that aired a long news report claiming that US is trying to console Pakistan by giving LGB as on the other side of border they are involved in nuclear deals.
it reported that the indian - US defence relation can go upto billions of dollars as they are currently competing in Air defence systems, AWE&C, MMRCA, Attack helicopters etc tenders!!
on other hand what they are giving to pakistan is merely 18 F16z. and even then they are offering india technology to negate these F16 by offering them F16IN and F18, may be even F35!!:flame:
similarly the deal of 12 scan eagles was published as a great favor to pakistan while wih india they have signed civial neuclear deals!!

thats a pitty that many people here in Pakistan dont realize what they are upto and how they are playing us!!!!:hitwall:
 
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Really, the Indian members on this forum should not try to defend an out of proportion hue and cry by India on anything that Pakistan tries to get a hand on in terms of its defense requirement. (Maybe the threat in 65' from the twenty odd F-104 (Badmash) is still embedded deep in the psyche of our Indian friends!)

This is 2010 India and Indians should grow up – a disproportionate level of firepower in favor of India exists today. Learn to depend upon your abilities and have faith in your soldiers and weapons – by this hue and cry it seems that something is amiss. I am afraid it seems like that you really do not believe in yourself and are afraid of any move that Pakistan makes!!! This not the hall mark of a “Regional Power” to say the least.

Dreaming and aspiring to become a regional power and acting like one are two different things – India needs a lot more maturity to start acting like one!!!!!
 
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