US advised Pakistan not to fight the USSR in 1979 but Pakistan wanted revenge for the 1971 war

[PradoTLC]

Yes, I forgot to mention that 1979-1980 was election time in the US, hence, there was no proper response by the Americans. Pakistan decided to confront the Sovoet Union head-on on its own instead of waiting for a new US Administration coming to power.

plus Carter was badly humilated by Iran in thier failed hostage rescue drama..

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

No Pakistan did not "drive back" the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union only went into Afghanistan to support their client state. They had no other interest in the region. Like Vietnam and then Afghanistan for the US, Afghanistan was always an unwinnable war.

If they wanted to, they could have driven straight through Pakistan to the Arabian Sea. Any Pakistani forces in the way would have been totally obliterated.

Please see the massive power imbalance - even Nato was not sure it could hold back a Soviet tank drive through Europe to the Atlantic Ocean in the 1980s and so would have resorted to first use of tactical nuclear weapons. Little Pakistan would not have even figured in Soviet tactics.

I did say, Pakistan was backed by 119 countries and it did fight a war with the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union did launch commando raids in Pakistani territory repeatedly and there were regular air battles between Soviet, Afghan and Pakistan air forces.

The fact of the matter is Pakistan confronted the Soviet war machine instead of accepting some sort of negotiated occupation of Afghanistan .

And, for your Bangladeshi information, Pakistan had carried out its first "Cold Test" of a nuclear device all the way back on 11 March 1983 (two months after Pakistan received the first F-16 bombers).

 

[Qutb-ud-din-Aibak]

I did say, Pakistan was backed by 119 countries and it did fight a war with the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union did launch commando raids in Pakistani territory repeatedly and there were regular air battles between Soviet, Afghan and Pakistan air forces.

The fact of the matter is Pakistan confronted the Soviet war machine instead of accepting some sort of negotiated occupation of Afghanistan .

And, for your Bangladeshi information, Pakistan had carried out its first "Cold Test" of a nuclear device all the way back on 11 March 1983 (two months after Pakistan received the first F-16 bombers).

Fun fact one of the downed russian fighter jets pilot who was captive became president in Russia

 

[xyx007]

For 1971, all bad players but India reached their endpoint. It is now India's turn , and we are watching how it is breaking into pieces, and of course countries like Bangladesh and Myanmar cannot handle the heat.

 

[peagle]

Total and utter delusion.

Pakistan played an extremely insignificant part in the break-up of the Soviet Union.

The huge multi-ethnic state that was spending 14% of GDP on defence was on it's last legs by 1979.

Hillary Clinton begs to differ.
I think it is unwise to collect sporadic facts to form new conclusions to your own liking. The Soviets were in trouble domestically, but it was not known at the time, the dissolution of the Soviet Union was a massive shock to everyone, no-one expected it.
It was the Afghan war that ultimately caused the breakup, it certainly was the last nail in the coffin, without which it could well have survived, by introducing reforms or any number of measures, but they are just hypothesis. The Afghan war and its effect on the Soviet Union are real.

Pakistan was central to those efforts in the fight against the Soviet Union, especially in the Afghan war. It cannot be denied.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

And Pakistan did take revenge against Russia by defeating them in Afghanistan and balkanizing them completely.

 

[SD 10]

Total and utter delusion.

Pakistan played an extremely insignificant part in the break-up of the Soviet Union.

The huge multi-ethnic state that was spending 14% of GDP on defence was on it's last legs by 1979.

don't talk about something that you have no understanding about.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

I would say Pakistan is still taking revenge. Pakistan recently supported Azerbaijan to defeat Russia. Pakistan is supporting Ukraine against Russia.

Total and utter delusion.

Pakistan played an extremely insignificant part in the break-up of the Soviet Union.

The huge multi-ethnic state that was spending 14% of GDP on defence was on it's last legs by 1979.

LOL Saudi Arabia funded the Money, US supplied the Equipment but it was Pakistan who trained the Mujahedeen and fought Russia.

Russia was completely destroyed thanks to Pakistan.

 

[UKBengali]

I did say, Pakistan was backed by 119 countries and it did fight a war with the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union did launch commando raids in Pakistani territory repeatedly and there were regular air battles between Soviet, Afghan and Pakistan air forces.

The fact of the matter is Pakistan confronted the Soviet war machine instead of accepting some sort of negotiated occupation of Afghanistan .

And, for your Bangladeshi information, Pakistan had carried out its first "Cold Test" of a nuclear device all the way back on 11 March 1983 (two months after Pakistan received the first F-16 bombers).

Do you think the Soviet Union would have cared about a few Pakistani air-dropped bombs that would have been taken care of by their excellent SAM systems anyway?

Like I say a Soviet tank drive would have obliterated any Pakistani forces stupid enough to stand in their way to the Arabian Sea.

It looks like this is a feel good thread for those that want a little bit of glory that is not deserved.

don't talk about something that you have no understanding about.

Dude, I have forgotten more than you will ever learn in your entire existence on this planet.

 

[SD 10]

Do you think the Soviet Union would have cared about a few Pakistani air-dropped bombs that would have been taken care of by their excellent SAM systems anyway?

Like I say a Soviet tank drive would have obliterated any Pakistani forces stupid enough to stand in their way to the Arabian Sea.

It looks like this is a feel good thread for those that want a little bit of glory that is not deserved.



Dude, I have forgotten more than you will ever learn in your entire existence on this planet.

another self supposed know it all......why don't you just run back to bangla forum, this doesn't concern you and is clearly more than you can take........

 

[SIPRA]

And Pakistan did take revenge against Russia by defeating them in Afghanistan and balkanizing them completely.

No. It was not at all a matter of revenge. It was the question of security of Pakistan.

 

[khail007]

Here's an interesting interview of Major (retd) Muhammad Amir of Inter-services Intelligence (ISI) with Shahid Masood, aired on 5 September 2021.

Major Sahib explains that Pakistan had considered Soviet Union as it's main enemy and that it was the Soviet Union which was responsible for the break up of Pakistan in 1971.

He goes onto say that the US and the Soviet Union had an understanding in 1979. Which was that the Soviet Union will look the other way while the US topples the pro-Soviet President Idi Amin in Uganga and in return, the US will not be too critical of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

Pakistan's Inter-services Intelligence (ISI) had found out that the Soviets were planning an invasion of Afghanistan and it informed President Zia-ul-Haq in June 1979, who in turn then wrote to President Jimmy Carter in July 1979. However, the US President did not respond due to the above mentioned understanding between the US and USSR.

The Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan in December 1979 and President Jimmy Carter wowed to defend the Persian Gulf in January 1980 (without committing any soldiers).

The US did send it's National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski to Pakistan in February 1980. His advice to President Zia-ul-Haq was, "Not to engage the Soviet Union in Afghanistan." Instead, the US would provide $400 million to Pakistan to fortify it's border with Afghanistan so there's no fallout on the Pakistan side.

President Zia-ul-Haq rejected the offer and instead told the US National Security Adviser, "Thank you very much for the nice advice. You may now go and relax. We will not only engage the Soviet forces but we will drive them back (out of Afghanistan)."

The next day, President Zia-ul-Haq ordered the military to act swiftly against the Soviet forces before they could fortify their positions on the Pak-Afghan border.

Pakistan confronted the Soviet war machine on its own for around 2-years before the US finally stepped in with military assistance to Pakistan.

The nearly decade long war took it's toll on the Soviet Union, eventually leading to the dissolution of the Empire and creating 11 independent nations in its place

Please watch from 16:00 onwards.

I have to admit I've always heard from the civilian and the military establishment that Pakistan was used by the United States in the 1980s instead of Pakistan actually wanting to take on the Soviet Union to take revenge for the 1971 war.

Circus of politics, first it was claimed that USA took the revenge of own humiliation in Vietnam conflict.
Now all based on Pakistani decision, USA was so loyal to Pakistan and provided all fundings and training. USA just used Pakistan for its own vested interest, Zia used that opportunity to prolong his claws on power till disposed of like toilet paper after USA cleaned herself.

 

[Meengla]

good that we took the initiative, or powerful pro-soviet Afghanistan and india on the other side would have been the end of us

Maybe. Or maybe a stable, peaceful, and educated Afghanistan wouldn't find it in its interests to have hostile relations with Pakistan forever. At worst, the Soviets were going to turn Afghanistan into yet another 'Stan country which would have been still far better than what turned out to be the outcome!! There is plenty of evidence that nations which are prosperous, stable, peaceful, educated don't want to engage in wars. They would rather trade with neighbors. Yes, initially the leadership in Afghanistan would be under the Soviet/Indian influence but Pakistan's ties to Afghanistan and Pakistan's location would eventually trump that hostile influence. If you saw the history of Afghanistan after the fall of King Zahir Shah in the mid 1970s then you'd notice that the leadership in Afghanistan kept changing its allegiance to foreign powers, overtly or covertly. They would eventually come around to working with Pakistan due to the geographic imperative!!

What Pakistan got out of the situation in Afghanistan starting 1979?? 40+ years of destruction and loss of opportunities for Pakistan and most of them can be traced to the events in Afghanistan. And it ain't even over!! Afghanistan is actually worse off then it was in 1979 and Pakistan is going to keep reaping the 'rewards' of the failed policies of Zia ul Haq. BTW, I don't agree with this assertion as said in the OP. If there is a consensus about the Soviet-Afghanistan, it is that the Soviets provided a golden opportunity to the Americans to take the revenge for Vietnam. Pakistan was used/abused and there is no doubt that Pakistan came out badly battered and continues to be.

 

[Thorough Pro]

Bollocks

India was the only country on record sitting in Soviet lap

It's actually the opposite. The Indian government of the mid-1980s under PM Rajiv Gandhi saw Zia ul Haq's Pakistan as the buffer which would protect Rajiv's India from increased Soviet presence in India which could very possibly enable the Indian Communists from politically taking over at some point. Rajiv Gandhi was ready to assist Zia to get back into power in case he was toppled by Soviet-assisted Pakistani leftists where the Soviets would try to extend their influence into Pakistan beyond their presence in Afghanistan. From my 2015 thread :

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Do you think the Soviet Union would have cared about a few Pakistani air-dropped bombs that would have been taken care of by their excellent SAM systems anyway?

Like I say a Soviet tank drive would have obliterated any Pakistani forces stupid enough to stand in their way to the Arabian Sea. ...

Which part are you struggling to accept that Pakistan decided to confront the Soviet war machine in the first place and prevent it from driving through Pakistan to the Arabian Sea, or that Pakistan's nuclear detterent along with the backing of American and Chinese nuclear detterent also prevented any full scale invasion of Pakistan?

Like I said, Pakistan carried out its first "Cold Test" of a nuclear device all the way back on 11 March 1983. Therefore;

1. Pakistan became a de-facto nuclear power,
2. Wasn't seen as some modern day Ukraine which could be easily invaded without any resistance and,
3. Pakistan-USSR started talking directly as early as 1983 in regards to Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan. Just 4 years after they had entered Afghanistan and over the next few years, they were fully driven out with their tail between their legs (apparently their economy was also on its last legs).